bin.pol.social

Arkham, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

Gyroscope controls. Especially for first-person shooters and other first-person games. I used to be a diehard mouse and keyboard player when it came to FPSes until I played Quake 1 on the Switch with gyro controls turned on. Now I’m trying to find ways to be able to play every FPS in my collection on a TV with gyro aim because it just feels so much better.

gamermanh,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Do you just eventually get used to gyro aim?

Everyone I know that’s gotten good with it swears up and down about it but 10 or so hours with Splatoon 2 and I felt like I didn’t get ANY better with it

This is from someone who’s pretty damn good at fps games, usually top 3 on the scoreboard no matter what game it is, so I’m not just bad at the games themselves

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Splatoon doesn't give you as much control over it as a Steam controller does. It's only the Y axis, and it's always on. It's much better when you can hold a grip button to toggle it. Then you can use the right track pad or analog stick for big movements and the gyro for fine tuned precision while holding a grip button.

gamermanh,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That sounds like exactly what my issue was with learning: it always being on, any teeny hand movement ever would fuck with the camera, the steam controller sounds much closer to what my mind expected from gyro

With that in mind I just might have to try it out, though now I’m scared of getting good with it and needing to hack gyro into games to play, much like getting good with MKB killed me playing FPS on controller lol

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

I'll tell you that my friend sat me in front of Returnal on PS5, and that game felt unplayable without either M+KB or gyro, even though plenty of people managed just fine. There's even a gryo feature in the PS5 pad! They just didn't enable it for the game. On PC, you can use it on Steam controller whether the dev enabled it or not.

Arkham,

I’ve heard of people struggling with it, but personally I got used to it very quickly.

I haven’t played Splatoon but I’ve heard it doesn’t use standard shooter controls, so it may not be the best example of the gyro aim I’m taking about.

If you haven’t yet, you might try grabbing Quake 1 or 2 on the Switch (they’re on sale right now!) and give that a shot with gyro on.

Plume,

Hell yeah. I didn’t put this in my post because I didn’t want it to turn into a debate about the validity and viability of gyro controls (it is, if you don’t think so, you’re just wrong). So thanks for putting it.

deo,

One of my favorite steam deck features is being able to use gyro controls for any game. It’s not always as smooth as the Switch, but it works pretty well to add a bit of additional fine-grained control to the course-grained control of the R-stick.

OhNoMoreLemmy,

Doom on the switch was amazing for this. I tried to play Doom eternal on the ps4, afterwards, and it was just such a disappointment because it didn’t have gyro.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

My problem with analog sticks in FPSes isn’t fine-grained control – most games have zoom, and auto-aim has done a lot to mitigate lack of acuracy. My problem is coarse-grained control – that is, it takes ages in an FPS to turn around at maximum turn speed, whereas a mouse player can rapidly snap around if they are, say, attacked from the side or behind.

I’ve seen some people talk about hacking together some mechanism to try to deal with this using the Steam Controller and Steam Input – I think that it might have been something like a double-tap-to-rapidly-turn, but my impression is that whatever was going on there was more-elaborate than just the combination of an analog stick and a gyro for fine movement.

brie,

W.r.t. mouse controls, having a bit of mouse acceleration can make it a lot easier to balance accuracy and being able to turn around.

AntBas,

Look up flick stick controls on YouTube, it’s hard to get used to it, but if you get it right it’s even better than keyboard and mouse

www.youtube.com/channel/UCoOdtpww47dipbWzNgO6-4g

thorbot, do games w Two games free on Epic Games - Eternal Threads and The Evil Within

Will I play them? No way! Will that stop me from claiming them? No fucking way!

fell, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?
!deleted1953 avatar

@Plume Oh yeah and this: Start the game in a neutral area or room where you can test the controls and sound are working properly and ensure the performance is right BEFORE the intro cutscene plays.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

A number of PC games – where the hardware’s performance capabilities are going to change from player to player – have a “benchmark” option accessible, usually in the video settings, that does a “fly-through” of some relatively-intensive levels, and then gives FPS statistics (I think usually an average count, though come to think of it, a 95% number would be nice too). Thinking of a recent example, Cyberpunk 2077 does this. The earliest game that I recall that had some similar feature was Quake, with the timedemo command, though that wasn’t accessible outside of the console.

That doesn’t deal with testing controls, but it does deal with performance (and can hit a number of the engine’s features), so it does part of what you want.

Fisch,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

A benchmark for tweaking graphics settings is also something I think every game should have. Just let me run a benchmark and tweak the settings before starting the game.

CarlsIII, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

I want to be able to adjust the volume of the rain apart from everything else. Yes, I know a lot of games have an “ambient sounds” slider, but it usually includes other sounds too like Thunder, wind, animal sounds, and other stuff. I just want to make the rain louder. Rain is almost always too quiet in games, and it’s a tragedy.

fell, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?
!deleted1953 avatar

@Plume The Witness has no menu and no savegames. When you boot it up, you're instantly exactly where you left off.

This doesn't work for all games, but I wish more games would do it like that.

JamesBean, (edited )
@JamesBean@kbin.social avatar

All the From Software RPGs since Demon's Souls work like that too. (Not the lack of menu, but the lack of an interactive save system because it's just constantly autosaving).

It's incredibly convenient to always be able to quit the game at any time and know you'll be in the exact place and position you were when you start up again. And it has the added benefit of preventing players from save scumming.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

That could also work with savegames, in that you can have saves, but make the default on startup be to restore where one was in the last game. Many games provide a “continue” option at the top of the main menu, I think reflecting the fact that that’s what a player wants to do 99% of the time.

Two caveats:

  • If it’s an action game and there’s loading involved, it’d be nice to know when the load is done, since you may immediately have to be reacting to something in-game. I’d rather have it attempt to load the game and then go into a “pause” mode, maybe with some overlay or something indicating the current game state (like to remind you what level or wherever you are).
  • It’s possible – because we live in an imperfect world with imperfect software – for save games to get into a broken state, and if so, you don’t want to make it impossible to reach the main menu if trying to load the last save game is crashing the thing. Maybe make the game detect that the last load failed, akin to web browsers, and then head to a menu in that case.
Trainguyrom,

Any kind of pause or completion of loading should have a brief moment where you can see the action and get your bearings before it hands control to you. Like how Forza or Euro/American Truck Sim handle loading saves, its paused for a second or so with the player getting full view of the screen then continues so you have a moment to figure out what you need to do

smeg,

This was going to be my point, the “quick save and quit” option, regardless of how the “normal” save system works. It’s fine if the game only wants you to create a save point you can reload from at certain locations, but a quick save that disappears when you reload it means you can put down the game immediately when the real world comes a-knocking.

Sina,

I dislike this.

Paco, do games w Two games free on Epic Games - Eternal Threads and The Evil Within

Thank you for making these posts!

rikudou,
@rikudou@lemmings.world avatar

Glad I could be of service!

simple, do games w Two games free on Epic Games - Eternal Threads and The Evil Within

The first Evil Within gets a lot of hate but it’s honestly still a really solid survival horror, especially in the first half. Would recommend if anyone here is a Resident Evil fan.

TwilightVulpine, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

Collectible tracker after getting to a certain threshold. I get that people don't like maps cluttered with stuff, but if someone gets to a point they got over 60% of a thing, it's likely they want to go for all of them, so the option to give them at least a general searching area should be provided.

Tunawithshoes, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

I love books, mail or notes. Honestly all those lovely small lore parts.

But I would like an option to have them read to me. I don’t need a fancy actor, it could be simple as text to speak.

But I struggle to keep concentration on a paper. Instead I would love to hear it read to me while I go back to my looting.

Fisch,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

Now that machine learning is getting really good at generating good sounding speech, this could become a thing. Paying someone to record every line of these small lore things would be too expensive for the small use it has, so I think that would be the only option.

whitepawn, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

By simply having all PC games mod able and with accessible console commands, most issues will eventually have workarounds.

savvywolf, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?
@savvywolf@pawb.social avatar

I agree with everything in the OP and most of the other comments. But something for me that I don’t think I’ve seen options for in any games.

Eyes and teeth. I’m a bit squimish around things happening to them. If your game shows them being injured in some way, just let me turn that off and skip it or something.

I know it sounds like a small thing, but I know at least four games which have this issue…

Plume,

Sounds quite specific but I can see it. A “turn off gore” feature could help?

Phanatik, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?

No Denuvo
DRM-free versions (fuck every AAA client, give me the setup files and piss off)
Linux-friendly anti-cheat
If your game has an online component, release the server files so the community can self-host!

Basically, anything that preserves a game well beyond its prime.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Linux-friendly anti-cheat

Anti-cheat systems in general tend to be fragile to changes in the game environment.

Honestly, I used to want that, and I’ll believe that game devs could do better than they do today, but honestly, I think that the problem is, end of the day, fundamentally not a technically-solvable one. The only way you’re going to reasonably-reliably do anti-cheat stuff is going to be to have a trusted system, where the player can’t do anything to their system.

I’d say that it’s one of the stronger arguments for consoles in general versus PC gaming. On a console, the playing field is pretty much level. Everyone has the same software running on their system, the same number of frames on their screen. Maybe there might be limited differences to the controller or better latency to a server, but that’s it. It’s hard to modify the system to get that edge. A console is pretty close to the ideal system for competitive multiplayer stuff. On a PC, in a (real-time) competitive multiplayer game, someone is always going to have some level of an edge. Like, the ability to get higher resolution or more frames per second, the ability of games to scale up to use better hardware, is fundamentally something of a pay-to-win baked into the system.

There will always be a place for competitive multiplayer games, but I honestly think that a better route forward for many games is to improve game AI from where it is today and then use computer opponents more heavily. While humans make for a very smart enemy “AI” in a lot of ways, and using them may be a technically-easier problem than doing comparable enemy AI, there are also all kinds of baggage that fundamentally come with competitive multiplayer play:

  • Limited lifespan for the game. At some point, nobody (or not many) people will be playing the game any more, even if it doesn’t depend on the game publisher to operate online servers. At that point, the game will head into the dustbin of history – it’ll be hard to meet the threshold to get enough people together at any one time to play a game. Multiplayer games are mortal, and single-player games are immortal.
  • You can’t pause. Or, well, you can, but then that doesn’t scale up to many players and can create its own set of problems. A lot of people need to change an infant’s diaper or get the door or take a call. They can play against computers, but they can’t (reasonably) play against other players.
  • Cheating.
  • Griefing.
  • Sometimes optimal human strategy isn’t…all that much fun to actually play against. Like, I remember playing the original Team Fortress, and that a strategy was to have classes that could set up static defenses (pipe bombs, lasers, turrets, etc) set them up right atop spawn points. That may well be a good strategy in the game, but it’s also not a lot of fun for the other players.
  • Immersion. Doesn’t matter for all games, but for some it does. I don’t expect humans to role-play, to stay in character, because I know that it’s work and i don’t want to hassle with it myself. But, end of the day, playing against xxPussySlayer69xx is kind of immersion-breaking.
  • Latency is always going to be an issue. You can mitigate it a bit with prediction and engine improvements or more telecom infrastructure, but the laws of physics still place constraints on the speed of light. There are ways you can minimize it – LAN parties, if you can get enough people. Regional servers, though that guy who lives in Hawaii is always gonna just have a hard time of it. But it’s always going to be there; you’re never going to truly have a level playing field.
  • The game is intrinsically mandatory-online. If you have a spotty or no connection, the game doesn’t work.

Another issue is the advance of technology. If it isn’t there now, I can imagine a generic AI engine, something like Havok is for physics, becoming widespread. And as that improves, one can get more-and-more compelling AI. Plus, hardware is getting better. But humans are, well, human. Humanity isn’t getting better at being a game opponent over the years. So my long-run bet is gonna be on game AI tending to edge in on humans as an opponent for human players.

CleoTheWizard,

Okay so I fully agree on the use of better AI in games as competitors. The AI in games, though sometimes complex, is lacking in a lot of major games and the difficulty setting just basically amps up their damage and health instead of causing them to outplay you.

I think there are two solutions to better competitive games that reduces cheating and they’re already somewhat at work.

The first solution is implementing AI to detect cheating which has been done but very limited in scope. This will require more data collection for the user, but I fully support that if you’re being competitive and not playing casually. Why? Because in person sports also collect plenty of data on you, often even more invasive, to make sure you aren’t cheating. This can be done in collaboration with Microsoft actually because they have the ability to lock down their OS in certain ways while playing competitive games. They just haven’t bothered because no one asks. Same with Linux potentially if someone wanted to make that.

The second important improvement is to raise the stakes for someone who plays any sort of Esport game. I’m reminded of Valve requiring a phone number for CSGO because it’s easy to validate but raises the difficulty and price of cheating and bans. Having a higher price for competitive games is also entirely possible and also raises the stakes to cheat. The less accounts cheaters can buy, the better. Should it ask for a social security card? No. But I think that system bans based on hardware and IP are also important. You can also improve the value/time put into each account to make it more trustworthy. If a person plays CS for thousands of hours, make their account worth something.

And a minor third improvement would be: match people with more matches/xp/hours with other people of similar dedication at similar skill levels. That means cheaters will decrease the more you play and a cheater would have to play for far longer with cheats undetected to get to that point.

There’s plenty that can be done, companies are just doing almost nothing about the problem because cheaters make them money.

Sina,

. The only way you’re going to reasonably-reliably do anti-cheat stuff is going to be to have a trusted system, where the player can’t do anything to their system.

Even then there are possible options. (hdmi splitter etc)

Xel, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?
@Xel@mujico.org avatar

Subtitles forced as on.

Or at the very least, the option to choose subtitles right away at the very start of the game.

I fucking hate when games have intro scenes or full chapters where you can’t pause or bring up the menu and you cannot turn on subtitles and I just don’t play games without subtitles (when the game has dialogue).

Plume,

Just letting people pause cutscenes to access the menus would be a huge start.

Fisch,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t like when games just throw you into the action without giving you the chance to tweak settings before (or even until completing the tutorial) in the first place. Like, why?

tal, do gaming w What is something (feature, modes, settings...) you would like to see become a standard in video games?
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Keep a rotating history of 20 or so autosaves/checkpoints, not 1, in case the last autosave was at a bad spot. Storage space is cheap. Yeah, I can do that myself with manual saves, but why make me do that? Maintaining that isn’t a fun part of the game for me, and it’s easy for the developer to do.

ono,

Baldur’s Gate 3 does this, and the number of saves is configurable. It’s nice.

TimTheEnchanter,

This saved my butt the other day! I got some message that my current save was corrupted or detected tampering? and to stop playing on it. I was able to go back a couple of auto saves, find a good one, and not have to do a bunch of content over again!

gamermanh,
@gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It’s not a technical limitation but a balance one usually

20 Auto save slots can mean going really far back on decisions the dev might want to be more permanent for you

Having at least an extra 1 for avoiding soft locks though is a really good idea, and it’s annoying when it happend

TwilightVulpine,

At the point the game allows multiple manual saves, rewinding decisions is trivial. There is not much of a point in restricting autosaves too.

The only way a game can enforce permanent decisions is if it only has auto-saves, in which case it could have a couple hidden backup saves just to prevent any issue from ruining people's progress. Even then that's not enough if players are willing to tinker, but at least it's not trivial.

Online saves are an option too but I wouldn't be too fond of a game that is needlessly restricted to online-only just to make decisions permanent.

tal,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Also, at least on the PC, it’s possible to just back up saves.

I mean, I feel like there’s legitimately value to having an “ironman mode”, but I’d really like to have the option not to use it, for a number of reasons.

One of which is that sometimes games have bugs – I just hit a bug in Starfield that was easily worked around by rolling back to an earlier save and taking a slightly different action. However, Starfield had autosaved between the action that triggered the bug and it becoming visible to the player, which would have been a problem if (a) I hadn’t manually saved prior to that and (b) Starfield didn’t do the multiple-autosave-slot thing.

The player can always impose not using saves on themselves, but they can’t debug games.

TwilightVulpine,

Definitely, technical problems are another reason not to be overly strict.

Ironman mode absolutely has value, but this gets into a greater discussion that I feel more gamers should keep in mind. The value of these restrictions and challenges are your entertainment as well as fairness towards the people you are actively playing with. Game rules are all arbitrary by definition. It doesn't really matter if someone playing by themselves completes an Ironman mode fairly or cheats at it.

It's because gamers were convinced to take game rules more seriously than they deserve that today some believe that fictional items in a remote server they don't control can be worth hundreds of dollars. That hundreds of hours of RPG grind are somehow a necessary requirement to play a match of a game with someone else, and also that paying to rush this entirely artificial aspect of the game is worthwhile.

If the developers of a game prefer that it's played in Ironman that's fair, but there is no need to come up with exceedingly complex and restrictive solutions to police how people play. If they don't want to play differently, that's fine too.

Candelestine, do games w Two games free on Epic Games - Eternal Threads and The Evil Within

… a psych horror game I haven’t tried yet? Don’t mind if I do, thank you.

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