bin.pol.social

Hathaway, do gaming w Weekly “What are you playing” Thread || Week of August 18th

Been playing “the isle” recently. Game has had/still has some questionable development happening around it, however, dinosaur. I’ve been enjoying it.

rustyfish, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?
@rustyfish@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t know if this counts, but Resident Evil 4 killed off the tank controls and single-handedly popularised third person cameras for survival horror games.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Resident Evil 4 still had tank controls, but it moved the camera behind the back. Unlike dual analog third person shooters at the time, it did have one major innovation: it moved the character to the left side of the screen so you could more easily see what’s in front of you.

catloaf,

I think Halo was what popularized the twin stick controls.

djsoren19,

Not even just survival horror, RE4 was a landmark title just as a third-person action shooter. It had a huge influence on the generation of third person shooters that came after it.

sirico, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

Arma 2-3 have been responsible for at least 3 major multiplayer genres.

Danitos, (edited )

SovietWomble has a video essay that touches this topic.

delitomatoes, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

I think Spyro was the first mainstream game to standardise achievements, you could do random stuff in-game and it gave you a little pop up, carried over to Ratchet and Clank and now every game has official achievements

UndercoverUlrikHD,

I think Spyro was the first mainstream game to standardise achievements, you could do random stuff in-game and it gave you a little pop up

Which one did that?

rekorse,

I believe the very first one had skill points that unlocked an extended ending and game art.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Not the first one on the PSX, that’s for sure. Also, getting some extra stuff for 100% a game wasn’t new by the time of Spyro, both Donkey Kong Country and Crash Bandicoot already did that

Okami_No_Rei,
@Okami_No_Rei@lemmy.world avatar

This. They were indeed called Skill Points, and Insomniac loved to tie cheats and bonus material to completing them. I played the shit out of Spyro and Ratchet and Clank back in the day.

VindictiveJudge,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

Actually introduced in Ripto’s Rage. The Reignited version backported them to the first game, though.

SplashJackson,

Mortal Kombat for the Genesis did that though. Every once and a while on good hit, little dude would pop into the corner and call out, “Toasty!!”

Really makes you feel like you achieved something great

UndercoverUlrikHD,

Just a heads up that I think you replied to the wrong comment in the chain

SplashJackson,

Some like heads up but I far prefer butts up

TheMinions, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Assassin’s Creed and the Open World Gameplay design. It definitely existed before then, but after AC came out, it felt like every RPG switched to the open world map.

r00ty,
@r00ty@kbin.life avatar

There have been "open world" games since the 1980s. Just of course, memory limited how big that world could be, and how much you could do in it. The genre as a whole is ancient.

TheMinions,

For sure. AC just popularized it.

Ageroth,

The first ones I can think of is legend of Zelda and final fantasy, but I think there was also Adventure for the Atari before those even. The first Assassin’s Creed was 2007, Adventure was 1980

smeg,

Which Zelda games were open world (before BotW)? I’ve always found them annoyingly linear.

subignition,
@subignition@fedia.io avatar

The original Legend of Zelda. You had a large open overworld to explore, and IIRC could do many of the dungeons in any order.

smeg,

That’s cool, I haven’t played any of the 2D ones (as you’ve probably guessed!), are they worth playing now for someone with no nostalgia goggles?

MindlessZ,

I would say the original Zelda isn’t, but link to the past definitely holds up. Honestly most of the 2d Zelda’s from link to the past onwards are good

subignition,
@subignition@fedia.io avatar

It hasn't aged too badly, but it's from an era where you were not necessarily expected to figure everything out on your own -- talking about it with IRL friends or reading tips and tricks in a magazine (or on the early Internet/Usenet) were pretty normal. I would say give it a try but don't be hesitant to look for a guide if you get stuck or lost.

prettybunnys,

Which Zelda game WASNT open world???

subignition,
@subignition@fedia.io avatar

Skyward Sword in particular was pretty linear despite technically having a literal 'overworld' of sorts.

Summzashi,

I feel like GTA planted that seed waaayy before that. I remember open world games being followed by “like GTA”. Assassin’s Creed was no exception.

TheMinions,

Valid point. I forgot about GTA since that was one of the few banned games in my household.

Stovetop,

I feel like Elder Scrolls was the model being followed for open world RPGs. Assassin’s Creed didn’t even have RPG mechanics until the later games.

simple, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Dark Souls popularized the stamina meter and the “dropping all your money on death and having to go pick it back up” mechanic. Not to mention spawning a subgenre of similar games like Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen

Ageroth,

The first Dark Souls was 2011. Diablo was released in 1997. World of Warcraft was 2004 and while you didn’t quite drop all your stuff and money you die you did have to run back to your corpse to keep from having all your stuff degrade and cost a bunch of money. The first Sonic was 1991 and getting hit makes you drop all your “money” and have to pick it back up.

Summzashi,

Mechanic wise the first was Demons Souls in 2009. But your point still stands.

simple,

It isn’t a question of who did it first, it’s a question of who made it popular. Look at how many games have a death run since DS came out. Hollow Knight, Nioh, Blasphemous, etc. It’s also not the same mechanic as losing your items on death.

Summzashi,

They did spawn a sub genre, but the stamina meter being popularized is nonsense.

sexual_tomato,

I had a stamina meter in Morrowind in 2002 and in daggerfall in 1996.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Those mechanics were lifted/copied straight from Monster Hunter, mind you :)

The PS2 and PSP Monster Hunter games are basically dark souls but you gotta kill giant bosses to transform their scales into better armor and weapons.

djsoren19,

Dark Souls is literally just Legend of Zelda for adults, which had a stamina system at about the same time Kings Field did. It’s honestly hilarious to me that it became known as the father of the genre, but the immediate copycats were also aiming for a similar tone to FromSoftware so I guess it’s fair.

harlatan, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Bullet time was popularized in max payne.

Rai,

And perfected in The Specialists!

Summzashi, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

I feel like Call of Duty 4 modernized and standardized the FPS genre on at least consoles. Every call of duty game still looks and feels exactly the same since CoD4 and every other first person shooter copied it’s control scheme because it was so firmly cemented.

morphballganon,

What did CoD 4 introduce that Halo 3 hadn’t already done 2 months prior?

Summzashi,

Real world weapon customization comes to mind. Other than that I don’t know, I haven’t played Halo 3.

catalyst, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?
@catalyst@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know what game first came up with it, but Super Mario RPG was the first time I saw timed hits for attack and defense in a JRPG. While the mechanic isn’t exactly ubiquitous it has popped up in a handful of other games over the years and it always reminds me of that game.

ApollosArrow,

This was definitely the first time I also remember this appearing, and it made it more engaging for me as a child.

smeg, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Mario 64 definitely paved the way for most of the 3D platformers of the 21st century

Summzashi,

I’d give that to Tomb Raider but both are exceptional.

Katana314,

I don’t think it’s just “being 3D”. Mario 64 put a lot of R&D into particulars of how jumping should work, the camera should work, and what the player’s goals should be. Quite a few games unintentionally copied them, while you could see some games not following their lead early in the 3D days that felt very janky to play. Tomb Raider could arguably be among them with the tank controls, though of course it has its own more niche appeal.

Grangle1,

Legend of Zelda OoT followed up with popularizing a targeting button (good ol’ Z-targeting) to focus on one object or enemy in a 3D space and move around it or fight/otherwise interact with it. Such targeting has been a standard feature of 3D action-adventure games ever since.

morphballganon,

If you want to talk about “how do I get up there” in a 3d environment, Doom did it before TR.

ThunderWhiskers,
@ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world avatar

It would be a real stretch to classify doom as a platformer.

frezik,

And it’s a bad one if it applies at all. PC shooters of the time always kinda tried, but it didn’t work. The original Half Life got dinged a few points in original reviews because of a few janky platforming sections.

johannesvanderwhales,

Mario 64 figured out applying analog control to 3d platformers which changed the whole genre, though.

Iceblade02, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Minecraft for the fully breakable/buildable procedural open world.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Minecraft is far more responsible for the survival crafting genre that followed in its wake.

holgersson,

Minecraft Hunger Games, although a mod, is responsible for the Battle Royal hype aswell.

So Minecraft caused Fortnite twice - once as a survival crafting and building game and then as a Battle Royal retaining some of these elements

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

What’s the timeline on that mod versus the Battle Royale mod for DayZ? Because as far as I could tell, the DayZ mod is the true progenitor, but DayZ was itself inspired by Minecraft.

holgersson,

I couldnt find a release history for the Minecraft mod, however according to the following article, it was released about a year before the original PlayerUnknown mod for DayZ / Arma 3.

Warning: Cant decline cookies (at least in EU)

eurogamer.net/before-fortnite-and-pubg-there-was-…

Sethayy,

It was more a server side plugin than a mod, but that only grew its popularity.

Even randomised loot existed around the map

Moneo,

I miss u bukkit ;-;

sp3tr4l,

Day Z the standalone game was a result of Day Z the mod for Arma 2.

While Day Z (the mod) and Minecraft were in their early phases around the same time (i alpha tested both), I have never heard anyone say that Day Z was inspired by Minecraft, beyond the idea of it being possible for an indie game with a small development team being able to become a huge commercial success.

Butterpaderp,

Pretty sure the actual hunger games movie had more to do with that

holgersson,

As the inspiration yes. But Minecraft hunger games was the first to do it in gaming while also reaching maybe not more people than movies, but definitly spreading to communities that the movies and books didnt reach (e.g. i didnt watch the movies until well over ten years after I had played my first game of MC hunger games)

NotSteve_,

I miss MC Hunger Games servers. Are any still around?

Jakeroxs,

Also Mindcrack UHC, not sure if that came before the hunger games mods tho

Timecircleline, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Slay the Spire spawned a ton of deck builder roguelites.

SpraynardKruger,

Without which we wouldn’t have the only true deck builder roguelite, Rogue Light Deck Builder.

youtu.be/FC0QczcuFX0?feature=shared

fargeol, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Donkey Kong (1981) popularized having different levels in a game to progress a storyline. Until then, you would have the same level over and over with increasing difficulty

That_Devil_Girl, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?
@That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml avatar

Though it was used in a few games before, a Quake tournament and Half Life 1 cemented the use of WASD controls.

teft,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

ESDF is the superior keybinding

WhiteHairSuperSaiyan,

I am glad I am not alone!

teft,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

There literally dozens of us!

WhiteHairSuperSaiyan,

But for real, i struggle to play games with wasd default and now keybind changes. Part of it is as simple as my hand is just used to using esdf and I constantly hit the wrong keys in those games. But the loss of useable keys on my pinky just feels so bad.

GriffinClaw,

^ This. So much this.

Used to play Warframe pretty religiously with wasd, where shift was part of a key movement combo. After a year or so, developed significant pain in my left pinky.

Shifting to esdf was damn awkward for about 2 weeks. The sheer pinky comfort though.👌

WhiteHairSuperSaiyan,

I wish I could upvote twice. It just allows so much more customization, that allows much more comfortable hand positions. I often with disable my caps lock and use A and caps lock as run and crouch.

dogslayeggs,

I am unable to play Fallout 4 because E is hardcoded to be “Use.” You can change all the movement keys, but for some reason you cannot change that keybinding. So you can make E be forward movement, but every time you approach a door or chest or person you will automatically open or talk whether you want to or not.

It made the game completely unplayable for me.

offspec,

Asdf is just better for general key availability imo

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

I never understood this for first-person shooters. You can’t walk forward and backward at the same time, so I don’t see why being able to press the forward and backward movement keys at the same time would be useful at all.

Top down games with 8+ directions of movement it’s great, though.

offspec,

It’s not about being able to push both movement buttons at the same time, it’s about being able to push more buttons in general. For hero shooters, mobas, MMOs, and other games with lots of inputs spreading out your reachable keys is really good.

Takumidesh,

Esdf requires more dexterity and is generally less accessible.

I’m an idiot and misunderstood which key bind was being talked about

SplashJackson,

It’s such a pain remapping controls on every. single. new. install.

But it’s worth it. Fuck wasd

mPony,

it’s one key over, is it really swear-word level different?

SplashJackson,

If naughty words cause you a level of righteous indignance, my recommendation is to abstain from online activities until one reaches the age of majority

Chef_Boyardee,

Been RDFG since about 2002. One of my roommates in college was in the top thousand on Unreal Tournament. He talked me into it. God, I get good at that game playing against him.

nokturne213, (edited )

I remember using wsad on an ascii graphics game I played back in 85 or so. I think it was called dungeons and dragons, but was not made by tsr. Larn, hack, and Moria were all similar games but I did not play those until later.

pyre,

yeah HL definitely was the one popularized it as default. quake players changed the bindings for it; i know because i played that game with old-school doom/duke controls

christov, do games w What games popularized certain mechanics?

Rogue for the rogue mechanic. Progressing in a game as far as you can until you die, then using some form of enhancement mechanic be harder faster better or stronger to go again.

okamiueru,

Isn’t it called “rogue-like” because that last part of metaprogress was not in rogue? Maybe I’m confusing it with roguelite.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Be careful; you’re stepping into a holy war. There are some who stick to “the Berlin Interpretation”, where there are far more criteria to what makes a roguelike, and from my perspective, it makes those games so close to Rogue that it’s not worth giving it its own genre, plus this classification came out just before Spelunky ruined it. Colloquially, you’re typically right though. Most will call a game roguelite if your progress gives you upgrades that make the next runs easier, whereas a roguelike may still have unlocks that add more variety or “sidegrades” that are neither better nor worse.

Floey,

I think the Berlin Interpretation is quite outdated and was not even good at the time, but I will defend it on this one point. It does not provide a threshold for what is and is not a roguelike, the Berlin Interpretation just lists criteria that are important to consider when determining how roguelike something is. The heap paradox is an exercise for the reader.

dustyData,

Funny enough, Rogue doesn’t have a set of permanent enhancement for a wider meta game. In Rogue you start over from scratch always and every time. That’s the difference between a roguelike and a rogue liTe game. Binding of Isaac and Spelunky are roguelike. You die, you start over from scratch. Hades and Slay the spyre are rogue lite. Every run gives permanent enhancements that change the next runs, so each time you start slightly different or progressively better.

Okami_No_Rei,
@Okami_No_Rei@lemmy.world avatar

Hades, yes. That’s a premier Roguelite with meaningful meta progression.

Slay the Spire is fuzzy on that point. I would not recommend it to someone looking for a Roguelite. It straddles the line in that it has very limited meta progression which is quickly exhausted and basically works as a tutorial. Once you’ve maxed out the card unlocks for each character it plays with the same feel as a Roguelike game. It’s still not a pure a Roguelike since the starting boon choice and the card swap event allow some minor meta-influence between runs, but there’s no more meta-progression.

Sylvartas,

I often describe slay the spire’s meta progression as “a roguelike with homework”.

Okami_No_Rei,
@Okami_No_Rei@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you. That’s a flawless description.

Floey,

A roguelite is ostensibly something that has enough features of a roguelike to be noted, but not enough to be considered one. And I’d argue there is way more to what makes a roguelike than permadeath with no meta progression.

Also Slay the Spire has less meta progression than Issac. Hades is in a whole nother ball park.

Katana314,

I’m curious if it’s actually a different one. That’s the biblical “source” but I feel like there was a long gap before the indie scene picked up that theme in droves. I’m now unsure what it was that started that more modern trend.

Okami_No_Rei,
@Okami_No_Rei@lemmy.world avatar

Rogue was the originator, but NetHack and ADOM did more to popularize Roguelikes than Rogue itself ever managed. NetHack was the first one I ever heard of, and it’s the only reason I know Rogue existed in the first place.

False,

Inter-run progression was not in Rogue and is a modern concept. And arguably anti-roguelike

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