DAMunzy,

They fucked themselves like WotC (Wizards of the Coast) did with the OGL (Open Gaming Licensing) changes.

Eezyville,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

I wonder who is gonna fuck up like that next. I wanna start shorting them now.

Anonymousllama, (edited )

If the changes were launched this way, being tied to a new version in 2024 then this would have been a perfectly fair approach, you could stick with 2022 / 23 LTS for your projects and only if you want ‘new’ features would you pick up 2024 LTS and agree to the new terms.

I’ve honestly not seen much difference between major versions e.g. 2021 - 2022 LTS, so unless these new versions come out with amazing new features, devs can still stick to these old reliable versions.

It’s much better overall but the way they’ve handled this has been shithouse

A10,
@A10@kerala.party avatar

It might now win any new developers but people who work many years to build things like custom simulations have no way of switching to other platforms.

nanoUFO,
@nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s not impossible to switch engines on new projects lots of devs have stated this. Devs have switch engines for far less or made their own.

Zacryon,

It depends on a lot of factors though. Creating your own engine is by far not an easy task. The more feature rich it shall become, the more work it will need. Especially if it should have high 3D graphics quality while also running performant. That alone can cost a good team at least 2 to 5 years.

Switching engines also depends on how portable your work from the old engine is with regard to the new engine. It may not be impossible but can still be a lot of work. The earlier that decision is made, the better.

If the devs are determined enough they can surely do a switch. But they might sweat a lot. And especially for smaller studios, or studios without sufficient funding, this quickly becomes a matter of financial survival.

So it’s not impossible, yes. But don’t take that lightly as well.

SmoothIsFast,

Switching engines also depends on how portable your work from the old engine is with regard to the new engine. It may not be impossible but can still be a lot of work. The earlier that decision is made, the better.

Not to mention I’m guessing a good amount of indie devs are not abstracting every detail of interacting with the engine from the getgo in the chance they want to swap engines down the line. I’m sure some more experienced studios due for that just incase measure or to make migrating past breaking changes a bit easier when they crop up. But generally speaking I can’t imagine that’s a common tactic. But even if it did your still going to have to recreate every new implementation for your interfaces and there are bound to be differences here that are gonna take some time.

radioactiveradio,

Nah, they’ll go back. If it’s one thing I’ve learned from Greedy companies doing dumb shit. People will always go back to trust them again.

Tkappa,

That works for consumers because they don’t have nothing to lose. Smaller devs will still gravitate towards Unity because the various fees don’t apply to them, but any big studio won’t touch it with a ten feet pole. Immagine putting the salaries of a full studio in the hands of a company that might decide out of the blue to ruin your business model, it’s a nightmare scenario for any CEO! More so when there are viable alternatives

s_s,
@s_s@lemmy.one avatar

Publishers will force smaller devs to move away.

I bet you Paradox Interactive has been shitting down its leg as this event unfolded. They almost exclusively publish Unity games.

kryllic,
@kryllic@programming.dev avatar

Deserved

Omega_Haxors, (edited )

It’s times like this I wish we did things more like china. The one person who is actually responsible for this change is going to get a huge payout, but the same can’t be said for everyone else at the company whose lives are going to be completely thrown off from the incoming layoffs.

echodot,

They have over 7,000 employees they need to lay people off anyway. The reason they’re not profitable is because they’ve massively overextended themselves. Why did they buy Wetter, utterly bizarre purchase choice.

If they had a sensible number of employees and didn’t buy random companies every 5 minutes they’d be profitable.

Mandy,

Fantastic, let them die Let a company, just once, learn a lesson

azenyr,

Not a good idea to leave Unreal Engine without decent competitors. Other universal engines are too small to compete with UE.

MrMcGasion,

Honestly, Unreal has been in a different league ever since Epic started dumping Fortnite money into it. That’s probably why Unity tried to start charging more, because they’ve been falling behind for the past few years and can’t afford to keep up. Not that I think it’s good to leave Epic/Unreal without decent competition, but I’m more inclined to blame Fortnite for the downfall of Unity than the indie devs Unity just scared off with their desperate cash-grab.

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Unreal has been in a different league basically since its inception. Compare the original Unreal engine to its contemporaries like Quake or Half Life and it’s amazing what they could do, if you had a box that could run it.

The difference between Unreal and Unity is Unreal has a sustainable viable business model (I think I’ve come to the conclusion that there are no “sustainable” business models under capitalism, what with demanding infinite growth and lal that). Epic Games develops their own games; the development of Unreal Engine has pulled its weight as a component of Fortnite and such. Same thing with Valve; I don’t think they ever bothered to charge for developing a game in the Source engine because they made their money for engine development through Half Life 2, Portal, TF2, Left 4 Dead etc.

Unity on the other hand doesn’t make and sell games, so they have to either directly charge developers (which they both do and don’t) or they operate their own adware nonsense. And neither of those revenue streams are enough. Which means they don’t have a viable business model. So they pull a stunt like this to hasten their inevitable bankruptcy.

tias, (edited )

Yeah I was a game programmer in the early 2000s. Unreal made my jaw drop back then already. They’ve always been state of the art (although arguably CryEngine had the lead for a while), long before Unity came around. As you might remember, it started out in 1998 as the game Unreal (and then Unreal Tournament) which was a kickass first-person shooter. It has been around for 25 years now.

Unreal is now also selling their engine to Hollywood productions that want to replace green screen with real-time effects for the actors to play against. It’s impressive stuff, and I bet they’re going rake in tons of money through that channel as well. Unity is just not in the same ballpark.

That said, there’s room for Unity if they’re willing to find a business model where they don’t compete head-on with Unreal. As the article indicates there is (was) a strong community providing tons of cheap or free-of-charge assets, and it’s been very appreciated among indie devs for these reasons. Unity excels in support for mobile and web platforms. They don’t need to make their engine support all the latest cool technology. They just need good developer relations and tools that make it easy to turn cool ideas into fun games. The fact that they squandered their biggest asset (the community) shows that the leadership does not comprehend Unity’s value proposition. It is being lead by fucking morons.

Potatos_are_not_friends,

Having used the Unreal engine, I’m actually surprised it’s not more popular than Unity.

I’m leaning towards people saw Unity as “the scrappy underdog” to Epic. When really, Unreal engine fought like hell to get to where it is.

Zacryon,

Tencent, which owns Epic Games to 40%, is a big turnoff for me.

Omega_Haxors,

I’m sure the person responsible for the change is going to be feeling devastated as they buy back all the stocks for fractions of what they paid.

Rand0mA,

Haha Unity. Ironic

mojo,

Good. The terrible marketing team who made this decision is still there, and they still want this end result. They just learned they need to approach that goal more slowly.

FooBarrington,

This kind of decision is not made by marketing.

Gamey,

I would bet money that it’s from their CEO, someone too greedy for fucking EA shouldn’t ever be a option for your company!

nothingcorporate,

Yup!

CrazyEddie041,
@CrazyEddie041@kbin.social avatar

There's also the matter of future developers to consider. I'm in the process of looking at game engines to learn, and Unity has decisively crossed itself off the list. Even if current studios and developers stick with Unity, startups and novices would be foolish to pick a game engine that might suddenly decide to charge them out the ass with little to no notice. Existing developers have the issue where they already have tools and experience with Unity, but newer folks don't.

WindowsEnjoyer,

Myself I really wish that Godot would finally start getting traction in being the most advanced and the most used game engine. And it’s free.

Just look at Linux - it’s free, most used and most customizable server platform, even tho paid alternatives (e.g. Windows server) exists. I wish Godot would become de facto standard game engine.

Gamey,

I doubt it will ever happen but if it dose that would be a perfect fit for open source, big studios could contributr and share parts of their progress between each other like big companies do in the Linux space and at that part it would probably become and stay the most advanced option fairly quickly because you can’t compete with a entire industry and community at once!

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Godot should definitely be adopted more by the indie and small studio scene. I think there’s going to be some folks who slide over to Unreal because Godot’s 3D capabilities don’t even match Unity’s yet, but there’s some stuff it can do, and it’s in active development.

Akasazh,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

So you’d say you’re waiting for Godot…

… To become s success?

ClumZy,

Clever hahaha

Savaran,

Honestly, then use it. The more folk using it, the more people will be contributing to it, the better it will get.

Like all open source projects, if people don’t want them to wither on the vine then people need to keep the projects active in any way they can.

Zacryon,

Godot definitely profited from Unity’s fuckup. Godot Engine hits over 50K euros per month in funding

WindowsEnjoyer,

<3

dylanmorgan,

Yeah, once you show that you can and will fuck someone over, they tend to lose trust in you.

pinkdrunkenelephants,

It shouldn’t. Developers have a moral responsibility to snub Unity now. A lesson must be learned here

halfempty,
@halfempty@kbin.social avatar

Developers would be foolish not to begin transition plans off of Unity. The next Unity LTS version will still require the runtime fee.

Corkyskog,

They forgot they were B2B… where did the C suite and board go to Business school? 🤣

The_v,

I am voting for the usual:

“My parents made a generous donation to the school I attended MBA”

Anonymousllama,

I’ve worked on older projects such as 2019 and overall they all work very similar, so I’m assuming people will still start projects on 2020/2021 LTS given they’re fairly stable

The only thing I’d be keen on in be versions of unity would be if they came with better versions of FSR / DLSS baked in, instead of having to wait on third party addons

30mag,

No shit

echo64,

I think they will lose some already established studios that can afford to retool and reskill on another engine. But I think the vast vast majority of current unity developers are breathing a sigh of relief that they /dont/ need to reskill or retool on another engine.

Unity is still on shaky ground, but they have been since they went public. They need revenue, and their big ad revenue plan got ruined by dastardly apple protecting users’ privacy. Couple that with an upstart and promising engine following in Blenders footsteps. In five years, they might have lost every hand they had left to play. Irregardless of the missteps of the last week.

micka190, (edited )

Every indie dev I’m following on YouTube has basically made a “My thoughts on the situation”-type videos where they talk about how they’ve “won against Unity” despite Unity basically doing a textbook of the “Door in the face” technique to pass changes that would’ve been unpopular before this whole mess.

Edit: Fixed typo.

JonEFive,

As soon as I heard Unity was back pedaling, I thought “there’s part 2 of the plan”

1: release abusive payment scheme to see just how much push back they get. If push back is minimal or losses are acceptable, end here and enjoy the profit.

2: if push back is strong, implement the actual payment policy that is still a significant increase, but less significant than the one above. And wait until the controversy blows over, which it will.

Yes, lots of developers will leave, lots of developers will choose a different engine for their new games, but there are a ton that will decide that it isn’t feasible to switch engines and plenty that will just eat the added cost. The thing that remains to be seen is just how much damage Unity has done in terms of new projects choosing other engines over theirs.

Ottomateeverything,

Claiming it’s “door in the face” is a little crazy here. If this is where they wanted to be, the “bait” changes could have been much much less bad than they were, and they still could’ve walked back to this.

Hell, they could have announced a 10% revenue split and it would’ve looked much better than what they pitched. And they could still walk back to 2.5% and looked like heroes. And it wouldn’t have lost them nearly as much trust. Nor made them look as bad.

If this was what they were trying to do, they’d have to have been even dumber to have made it this bad.

I’m more willing to bet they’re just fucking stupid. Or that a few people on the board had this as a fucking moronic idea, and the rest managed to take back control after it went totally sideways.

But claiming that it’s a door in the face requires them to be evil enough to do it, stupid enough to not realize they’re overdoing it, crazy enough to think it’d work, etc. It seems way too contrived.

delcake,
@delcake@kbin.social avatar

Agreed, this whole Unity thing seemed more like they were surprised the peasants were revolting. Completely unaware of the danger of putting developer bills directly in to the hands of the end users, and not considering that a "trust me bro I counted how much you owe me" blackbox accounting method was too much to ask.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

Also announcing that if you’ve ever used Unity they can just suddenly decide that you owe them more money.

OpenTTD,

…which engine is the upstart and promising engine following in Blender’s footsteps? Do you mean what Unity was supposed to be until they ruined it, or did you forget to drop the name of the engine in question?

Panda,

The engine following in Blender’s footsteps would most likely be Godot.

doggle,

Unity was never open source and thus could never follow blender’s path. They’re almost certainly referring to Godot.

doggle,

Yeah, very few studios would retool an existing project. The real question is whether any of them will be picking unity for their next project. And will young people getting into game dev choose Unity over others? I don’t expect to see a sharp decrease in the number of Unity projects in the next year, but rather a slow descent, while Godot picks up steam and Unreal further cements itself as the professional’s tool.

echo64,

All the tutorials and learning resources are hyper unity focused. That’s why so many game devs pick it up. That’s why they cornered the less than AAA industry. A young person will choose unity over the others for the same reason as they did last year. The endless resources to teach.

It’s likely almost all developers will pick unity for the next project too. All their knowledge is in unity, not Godot or unreal. We have this problem in other software industries too, some languages and frameworks are just better, but you can’t use them in your project because there are only five people in the industry that know how to use it well.

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