There is no need to do so. "Currently, on the Alpha and Public Test Universe (PTU), all ships and vehicles are given a basic insurance plan that does not expire to facilitate testing. At this time, it requires no upkeep or fee for players to acquire basic ship loss coverage."
I don’t care how you spend your money, but you were the one arguing that the game is only 35 dollars and that almost all your ships were in game and flyable. So it certainly seems like you have spent more than that. So it certainly seems this game is much more expensive to the people that are still most interested in it.
You can bounty hunt, mine, trade, race, pvp or explore in a ship, in a ground vehicle or on foot. You can buy most ships and vehicles in game, the exceptions being the most recent ships and some capital ships.
There are also pvp events and the occasional pve event, but I prefer the player driven events like the daymar races.
I guess new locations, some more ships and a bunch of server tech like functional server meshing are what we’re waiting on.
Baldurs Gate 3 is a masterpiece, GOTY for me so far, but every other game this year I would rank below Star Citizen for me personally. Starfield especially just makes me wish I was playing Star Citizen.
You gotta lay off the copium, dude… 600M and 12 years without a release anywhere in sight?? That’s just unforgivable. If anyone else did this, they’d be torn apart for it.
Oh noes, 45 bucks is such a horrible gamble!!! What shall I do????
I've more than enough hours already in game to make the amount I spent (including all I've gifted over the Years) considerably less than If I'd gone to one movie a week for each hour I've played.
Once you get a job you'll be able to afford 45 bucks and stop coping yourself. I'm just sick of reading posts from people that saw some whine on youtube lie about the game.
> The highest budget ever for a video game
> 12 years of development
> Crowdfunding
> Microtransactions
> Still not enough money
> Still not complete
To you, I, by seeing that something is clearly wrong with this picture, am the one who is coping while you, who is vehemently denying what is right in front of you, is not?
Most ambitious massive multiplayer game ever and all businesses that remain open must continue to take in money. Perhaps a business class or two would help with the concepts involved.
It seems like nobody’s saying “damn I loved skyrim but hate this”. If you’re into that bethesda rpg “width of an ocean depth of a puddle” stuff it seems pretty alright.
I’ve been playing a lot of starfield and to me it’s fallout in space with some improvements (although still some classic fallout jank). Like there’s grappling which is great, but when you put stuff on shelves you’ll come back to them being half in the ground. I’ve got no complaints (aside from always wishing I could coop with my partner) because that’s what I was ready for. Honestly the least buggy Bethesda game I’ve played so far. I had one quest that I struggled with because of NPC pathing, but nothing game breaking so far. It’s not No Man’s Sky planet exploration. It’s not a space sim. It’s a dialogue heavy loot n shoot.
Cloud Imperium is not a tiny company. I believe it has about 1000 employees at this point, which means that the 600m has mostly gone to keeping the company going.
Chis Roberts is burning the cash rather than pocketing it. He loves his feature creep, and which forces devs to redo work. They've thrown most of the game out and coded it from almost scratch twice?
Every single Chris Roberts project has been like this. Development hell with new shit being added and no deadline in sight.
If you say so. And of course all any have to do is go on youtube or twitch to prove that isn't an accurate report of the state. But as long as it makes you feel better to say that.
You must have rock bottom standards to not expect the most expensive game ever made to at the very least be feature complete after 12 years. And we are talking about a very healthy first here, development costs are more than twice as much as second place and growing every day.
I don't see a reason why the most expensive game ever should have to be feature complete after 12 years.
But if this particular most expensive game ever was originally announced to be released in 2014, then postponed last minute a couple of times and subsequently split up into two games to allow an earlier release of parts of it...
There's plenty of multiplayer live service games that show how it should be done. Yeah sure, add microtransactions and content updates and whatever else but make sure that bare minimum standards are met with regards to the game itself. When I click "Play" in Apex Legends, I don't clip through the floor and explode because it's a feature complete game. Still live service, still getting improved every day, but feature complete. The base game actually working is not optional like in Star Citizen.
I played it this year, and it is totally shit, the features that are already in games don’t work. Even comparing with other space games like elite dangerous that are way cheaper and already have a decent and less buggy gameplay loop
I played enough to see an empty city that adds literally nothing to anything, with every single NPC standing still on a chair. I played enough to crash two times interacting with shit to just restart ON MY FUCKING ROOM, why there is a server if it is unable to keep your quest state is beyond my intelligence.
Furthermore, I played enough to see corpses around the abandoned world, adding nothing but noise to my immersion, dumber quests, simpler ship controllers and simpler planetary bases than Elite Dangerous. Also, maybe I didn’t have played enough, but I had no SC player providing me with a decent endgame gameplay loop like ED, I don’t know how a game this old and this expensive can have less endgame than an actual indie game.
Literally the one thing that it is better in SC than ED is the ability to move inside your ship, that is dope but is not worth the cheapest ship or worse, your time. And I’m writing this comments to other ppl, not you Tigris, you are beyond any rational discussion, you probably have spent too much on this game to admit to yourself it is crap. If you truly believe that the game is good you would just talk about what we are missing and not white knighting and gaslighting anyone that disagrees with you.
simpler ship controllers and simpler planetary bases than Elite Dangerous
There’s plenty to criticise but this is just wrong. I’m really into space and flight sims and Elite Dangerous doesn’t hold a candle to Star Citizens flight model.
Bullshit. Star citizen is way more arcady. The physics make no sense at all. It might be more fun, sure. But from a simulation perspective Elite is a simulator compared to babies first flight model in star citizen.
Care to explain how the WW2 plane flight model of Elite Dangerous is less arcady than the newtonian flight model used in Star Citizen or do you just not understand physics?
Can you explain a little? For me, it was just an arcade game, I felt that a have so less control layers that I have in ED that I cannot get what you mean.
Elite Dangerous has a flight model where your ship behaves like it’s in atmosphere. You even have a throttle/speed “zone” where your ship handles best.
In essence this flight model is a very basic imitation a WW2 era plane, where due to the complex relationship between control surfaces and air speed they had ideal speeds for manoeuvring.
Elite Dangerous doesn’t model any of this using physics it’s all just fixed values and of course there’s no (or negligible) atmosphere in space.
Ever watch The Expanse where they’re going one direction full speed then they flip and burn the other direction? That’s realistic physics even if the engines being used are hand-wavy future tech.
You can do that in Star Citizen, though new players often miss that, as there are a actually two flight models.
The basic flight model is called coupled mode, where your direction of travel is “coupled” to your direction of forward momentum and has “drag” which is your ship slowing itself when you’re not using thrust, due to the chosen mode. This gives you a feeling of atmospheric control similar to Elite Dangerous.
The second mode is called uncoupled and is complete 6 degrees of freedom and your ship will maintain all momentum (it doesn’t slow down when you’re off throttle) allowing manoeuvres like the flip and burn mentioned above. This is very close to how things actually work in space though not perfect.
Oh and because atmospheric flight actually is modelled in Star Citizen, you can’t treat a dog fight in a planets atmosphere the same as a dog fight in space!
Well yeah, it is finished. It has reached state where people can say “yes, this is finished” unlike star citizen. And there’s a fundamental difference between a store and a game that at some point reaches the finished state, again, unlike star citizen.
How come baldur’s gate 3 didn’t need 10 years and 600 million fan funding to reach a release?
A grift implies that someone is making bank off of it.
No, Chris Roberts is instead burning money by having devs do work, then redo work to add in some last minute shit that he thought of, then repeat until the feature creep completely overtakes their lives. It's the Chris Roberts way.
Work is being done on the game, but remember that treading water is also a lot of work.
He isn’t, but he’s not out there buying multiple sports cars and a yatch either. I really do believe there isn’t anything sinister going on, just a whole bunch of good intended people wasting a collosal amount of money on a dream project where devs get to do exactly what they want and don’t need to adhere to deadlines, no crunch, no job security threats and just no pressure. It’s probably bliss working there but they have no hope of ever making an actual finished product because there is literally noone there with the goal to push a product out the door on X date. It will be done when it’s done, and everyone who’s ever worked in such a loose environment knows that means never until someone comes in and lays down the law.
And before someone comes in and says “Y indie project bla bla” remember that there is a VAST difference between a small game with say 1000-5000 man hours behind it and a large AAA game which Star Citizen aims to be which entail at minimum 100.000s of man hours of work. You can be extremely loose and take your time with a small idea like say Vampire Survivor and scope creep it to hell and back and it still won’t take more than a year or two until there just isn’t anything more to do but release it.
There is probably some clever parallel to draw here to utopian political ideologies but my brain is mush after a grueling week so I’ll leave that to someone else.
The biggest waste is all the employees and the offices to house them. Details like decorations and conference tables are just a red herring, it’s not the real issue. Just look at their road map, and then consider that they have 1100 people on payroll working on that roadmap, not including third parties like voice actors etc. It’s fascinating.
It’s just because that irks you when there are layoffs. But office supplies are assets, they’re on the books and while they depreciate over time it’s still something that can be sold and doesn’t cost anything after you’ve bought them. The actual office building is different, since you generally rent it and the staff you need to pay monthly and you can’t sell them to recoup part of the investment. High quality chairs etc cost a fortune, but they also last a decade plus in many cases. Still earlier this year they had 1000+ employees, that isn’t sustainable for a game relying on donations basically. You need predatory microtransactions for that to workout which is of course part of the reason CIG monetizes in the way they do, they need to keep the boat afloat.
If the average salary is just $20k yearly were looking at a salary spend in excess of $20 million a year, not including offices or payroll taxes, benefits etc. And I imagine that the average salary is higher than that. If they are laying people off the reason is that someone in finance is putting his foot down saying this just can’t go on.
Haha, that’s not a yatch. That’s a motorboat, we’re talking in the $100k-$1000k range with the topend being unlikely. I agree the optics aren’t the best but it’s not at all crazy to afford something like that on a business leader salary. Sure from a pure ethics standpoint he should take a modest salary and keep at it until the game is released and his obligations to his supporters fulfilled and then get rich. But who has ever been that principled? I can’t really fault him for something everyone does. He’s also been fairly successful for a long time already so he likely had money before SC as well. Now if I’m wrong and another angle shows this is some gaudy 10 million dollar+ yatch he bought recently then I’ll absolutely reevaluate!
He isn’t, but he’s not out there buying multiple sports cars and a yatch either. I really do believe there isn’t anything sinister going on, just a whole bunch of good intended people wasting a collosal amount of money on a dream project where devs get to do exactly what they want and don’t need to adhere to deadlines, no crunch, no job security threats and just no pressure.
Source, your uncle works at CIG?
It's been years since I followed it closely but I remember seeing a youtube video documenting in detail the nepotism and mismanagement going on at CIG like 5 years ago with evidence from their actual videos or public info on websites. Wasn't there also a huge forbes article a while ago talking about the same thing? And if anything, the fact that all these years later we still don't have any new info about SQ42 that was supposed to be almost done in 2018, less alone a finished game, just goes to confirm that they were right about at least some things.
I am saying they’re doing a shit job at delivering a game to us backers. I just don’t think it’s nefarious, just sheer incompetence. They value making the best thing highly, they think the best thing means the most feature rich and realistic thing, and thus they allow scope creep to literally eat money via man-hours in a way that can only and will lead to CIG going bankrupt long before a game is ever released in a finished state. Unless someone high up over there wisens up. Forces a hard deadline and cuts the scope down agressively to meet it and gets the game(s) released. But I find that exceedingly unlikely.
They have outright lied about state of development and progress being done. I remember when CR himself said on citizencon stage that SQ42 demo had to be delayed for a few weeks due to some last minute animation issues that would ruin the first impression, but that other than that it was practically done. Then few weeks later they released a crying video about how much work it is and why it takes so long and asking for understanding.
That was like in 2018 or 2019, and now 4 years later we still don't have anything to show for it, even regarding sq42 alone. At one point it stops being incompetence, they are just full of shit most of the time.
That might very well be. My take on everything I’ve seen so far is that it likely was ready. Just that CR or someone else said “wouldn’t it be cool if we also had X in there?” And then they just said fuck releasing, we need X in there! Then X lead to Y and along the way someone proposed A and that would be so cool but if we have A why not B and…
If we had access to their Jira or whatever they use I can all but guarantee that the backlog grows faster than they can close issues.
And it’s also undeniable that they are developing stuff. Just very questionable stuff at times and they decide to redo stuff all the time.
Anybody still putting money into this is a sucker. For 50mil they should have had some game out and ready
Fuck, the entire time SC was worked on we had Elite Dangerous get funded, released expanded and crash and burned. No man’s sky launched from being “Sean Lied People Died” to the biggest redemption story in gaming and Starfield went from a twinkle in Todd Howards eye to complete. Two Everspace games. Rebel Galaxy 1&2. X4!! Fuck me.
What happened to Elite Dangerous? I used to play quite a bit before I had to move and ended up on horrible internet. I've finally got good internet but haven't gotten back into it yet.
Last I played, the arc was humans attempted firing a weapon targeting Thargoids and it failed. Thargoids got mad and attacked human systems in the bubble.
There was also some unhappiness around their spacelegs expansion and the subsequent end of development for console versions. I stopped playing since then not because of any problems but because I got into other games.
I was on Xbox (where my friends were). Once Odyssey flopped they cancelled any new updates to the console versions and after a couple of years haven’t No Man Sky’d Odyssey yet.
They only really focus on combat and they go out of their way to make progression difficult. Storylines take literal decades to progress and there isn’t really endgame content. Plus they haven’t delivered on half of the features they promised.
Everything in that game can be boiled down to
Go here
Point at thing
Wait
Log out
Log back in
Repeat until you die of old age
Seriously why is a relog an official part of the game loop?
It’s my point of view that they created so much friction in the gameplay loop that players generally prefer logging to get their materials or whatever they need, and FDev’s policy is “sure, whatever,” because then they don’t have to improve the gameplay.
Wow… I played just long enough to buy a Dolphin, never got out of the first few systems, it was before Beyond’s release and I found the loop to be boring after about 15h…
Not technically, but yes. I don’t remember the component, but there’s one specific widget that you need to get in order to build one of the ship launched fighters (iirc). You have to complete a (decently fun imo) gameplay loop, and huzzah! You get the widget.
But you need fifteen of them.
And they don’t respawn while you’re in the instance, no matter how long you wait.
There’s only one single site on the entire planet, so you either have to
Leave the planet and fly back (which can take minutes).
Find another. They aren’t marked on the map or anything so you have to quit the game and open a browser and find the third party website that indexes everything Frontier is too lazy to do themselves, find a solar system a dozen jumps away that maybe has what you’re looking for and repeat the process, or
One thing the others didn’t mention: They released a multilayer expansion, if you try to play in co-op the game crashes, they announced they wouldn’t fix the issue so they basically wasted resources on developing a game mode that doesn’t work and still made it a selling point.
Exactly. Star Citizen has been in development so long that not only have other developers already had the chance to jump in ahead of them, the genre's brimming with games now!
They had such an advantage going into this, how do you fuck up a golden ticket so badly??
They’ve made $600M. How is that fucking up a golden ticket? They’ve all been getting paid well for years. The people who spent money are the ones who don’t have a finished game. That probably doesn’t matter to the people who’ve paid off a large chunk of their mortgages in the meantime.
Sure, they've got money from all the good will they're soaking up, but at some point that good will and money will dry up...
If/when they finally do release a game, it's now got to not just compare to a whole full genre of games, it's got to be better than them in order to get that good will back.
Who cares about good will? If they release and people get pissed at the finished product then “shutter” the studio, take everyone to a “new” studio and work on another game with the experience and cash you got from SC
Since backing SC I’ve met my wife, got married and had three children. Two of which are already going to school. It’s crazy how much you can accomplish in 13 years. I wonder if the game will be done before my oldest turns 18.
The difference is that Dwarf Fortress only released on Steam because they had financial worries due to some health scares. They decided to release it on steam and charge for it but they wanted to deliver a major overhaul of the UI to justify selling it, even though people wanted to pay them for years.
DF has been in development for 20 years but it’s essentially a full game that they’ve been making better. Yeah it’s buggy (they simulate so goddamn much of course it’ll have bugs), but it’s at least a full experience that you can replay many times and never have the same experience.
Star Citizen does not deliver a full game, it’s just a glorified tech demo. It’s cool tech, but it’s not worth playing in my opinion.
Dwarf fortress was released and being distributed and successful before steam existed, the recent release was to attain more financial security as the devs age and have to deal with medical bills related to aging, failing bodies
Likewise, there is a subscription model that allows you to maintain access to the title and is divided into two types: Centurion (€12.22 per month or €134 per year) and Imperator (€24.44 per month or €268 per year). The Imperator offers, unlike the Centurion, exclusive events and an allocation of in-game money per month to rent ships and weapons.
Some pretty sloppy work here. The subscription options have nothing to do with playing the game; it’s a buy once product with no subscription system at all. The Centurion and Imperator subscriptions are better thought of as a kind of “backstage pass”, they mostly just give you patreon style content and extra in game flair items. Are they worth the money? Unless you’re a die hard fan, absolutely not. But it’s not like you have to pay up “maintain access” as the article puts it.
Freelancer, to this day, remains one of my all-time favorite games for capturing the magic of space exploration. If Freelancer was born from this dude’s mind, I will happily wait for Star Citizen.
Freelancer had to be pried from his control because he couldn’t meet even the least ambitious deadlines. Chris Roberts hasn’t managed a successful project from start to finish in over 20 years.
Kickstarter was like... 2011 or 2012, so just over a decade. I know because that's 50 bucks I'm never gonna get back, but at least it was worth less back then xD
I was an original backer, I’ve played various iterations over the years and it really takes a lot of rose tint to find the game as it is enjoyable. The core loop isn’t even in place yet. The systems that do exist and work are interesting, the graphics and aesthetics are top notch, in parts, and at times it feels like we’re going to get something revolutionary. But then you play for a while and the unfinished jank gets to you, it’s not very fun. It’s cool, it’s impressive, the scope is insane and you can get lost in the vastness of space in ways that other games just can’t even approach. But it’s not fun. You can make it fun with friends or by setting up your own goals disjoined from the gameplay loop. Like try and jump a vehicle into the cargo bay mid flight or see how tightly you can race around asteroids. But if you just play the existing little loops it sucks. This is of course my subjective opinion. You might love the bounty system and the combat. You might love the salvage runs and transport missions but to me it’s like Euro Truck Simulator which is about the most boring shit I can imagine. And both the space and ground combat just isn’t even remotely as good as other games that just focus on that, which is understandable but I’m always left with this feeling of “will I really enjoy the finished product?” And I’m not sure. The game they said they were going to make in the Kickstarter, that game I would’ve enjoyed. I loved Chris Roberts games as a kid, but this monstrosity it has become? I just don’t know.
That said I really do believe they’re trying to make the best game ever. They just don’t fundamentally understand why we need deadlines and a fixed scope to get things out the door.
I don't think they were chasing newer tech, so much as the development was taking so incredibly long that their current tech had literally aged out of the common gamer's expectations and they HAD to do it over to seem current.
That may be. I do remember somewhere in a documentary that they kept re-developing stuff for different libraries/technologies. I think at least one was voluntary. I can't recall which doc this was, though.
I feel the same way. For the 30 or so dollars I spent as an early backer I’ve actually had some fun times in the game, and I don’t actually think it’s quite the total loss that people make it out to be, but it certainly should be far, far better than it is after a decade and 600m dollars invested in it.
I supported it but, I stopped playing, not enough to do. Graphics are insane but, little to no actual content aside from ships that you need to pay real money for. The constant dB resets prevent me from ever really grinding the game, what’s the point of it will just reset next major update. I personally think the game is going to flop due to this.
I don't think it's possible for the game to flop anymore if we're going off money made. In terms of them making money after they fully "release", well... I don't know if it will ever actually "release".
You purchase the base game which comes with a starter ship. In the game, you can do missions or do cargo trading to earn in-game money which you can use to buy ships.
You can absolutely use real world cash to purchase additional ships, which funds the development of the game. You don’t have to if you don’t want to. Almost all the ships can be purchased with in-game currency.
The main plus point for purchasing ships with real money is they are acvound bound and will stay with you after a database reset.
Well, not all the gameplay loops have been fully fleshed out yet which is why it is still in the alpha stage. Database resets happen as festures are added.
I don’t know if i will go so far as to say they are incentivised to keep it in alpha.
Same for me. Although I really enjoy just low flying on the planets and enjoy the scenery but what made me quit is the insane amount of bugs. Sometimes it’s nigh impossible to even get from the down area to the ship it out of the hangar. Once it’s running, it’s incredible but the lack of reliability is just to frustrating.
Is this article written by AI? It has all sorts of strange errors and repeated words. Like the sentence at the end of this paragraph. I know it is popular to call out everything as AI right now but this article is suspicous.
You know its weird, here people are downvoting me for agreeing its great. On another post I’m being downvoted for saying its okay. Y’all just don’t know and thats okay. If you know what you need and you are just unfamiliar with a library, ChatGPT can explain it fine if your prompt is concise.
If you have no idea what you are doing and know nothing about programming, its not going to help you. I am currently using it to assist with small tasks using Excel.Interop and it basically spat out a working program for me to tweak. Don’t really know what to tell you about that but I can post it to GitHub I guess.
Its fine with programming so long as you know to take it with a grain of salt and give it detailed prompts. Like for instance, if you don’t specify it usually defaults to Row 1 when dealing with ranges, thats fine, because I know what row I need.
I mean you have to verify it as much as any answer on Stack Overflow. Lets not act like dudes haven’t been ripping code from there and just flying with it.
Never ask it for advice period. It is always confident because that's the most believable way to present information on the internet. It is usually wrong because it is not actually intelligent.
There is a wierd amount of generative-learning articles on game/tech Lemmy. I keep seeing these articles from publications that I’ve never heard of and I get excited because “Oo new people in the space” then halfway through the article I feel duped.
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