I’m enjoying the absolute fuck out of this game - hundreds of hours already and no regrets. This game is a lot deeper than anyone gives it credit for, it’s fantastic, and I’m looking forward to more of it.
No Man’s Sky bores the hell out of me and yet I’m having so much fun exploring planets and raiding pirate bases and being surprised by handbuilt content in what I thought would be a procedurally generated dungeon. Not to mention the surprisingly deep side and faction quests. Oh and so many hours playing with the shipbuilder.
I’m sorry you’re not having fun guys. But maybe you should focus on things that are fun for you?
Agreed, at first I wasn’t excited about it but as the quests opened up I was in. I’m on the “new game+” right now and seeing what else I can mess up lol.
My quests tend to end in a lot of shooting innocents… I don’t know why that keeps happening. It can’t be anything I’m doing…
The only thing I said about NMS was that it bores me. The story is thin and nonsensical, characters are nonexistent. It’s a great sandbox with impressive technical merit, but that’s not enough to keep me engaged.
Outer Worlds is pretty good but it’s an Obsidian title, for better or worse. The game world is bleak and terrible and it’s not any better at the end. Their writing is good and their characters are fantastic, and I enjoyed my time with the game but once I was done with the story, I couldn’t find much reason to keep playing.
Starfield, on the other hand, is really big and really deep. There is a crap ton of hand-built content - seriously, hundreds of hours in and I’m still struggling to see it all. The four faction quests feel like separate games in themselves. Starship building is awesome. Outpost building is overwhelming and little pointless, but still fun if you like that kind of thing. Yes, there’s a bunch of planets with generated content, but it’s surprisingly varied. There’s a ton of variation in flora and fauna and even the generated dungeons. There’s a few times i went to an abandoned something or other expecting just some pirates or something and ended up with a huge cinematic fight and loads of what seems to be hand-built content. Best of all, you can play the game how you want.
Don’t like planet scanning? You don’t have to. Hate the UC or Freestar Collective, fine you don’t need to do theor quests. Hate the ship builder? There’s plenty you can buy. Hate outpost building? Great, you can ignore it. Want to ignore the main quest and go be a pirate for a while? Go for it. The Crimson Fleet even gives you a couple of companions you can use if you hate how goody goody the Constallation folks are. This game rewards roleplaying choices more than any other beth title I’ve ever played.
Also, no spoilers but the New Game + mode is legitimately innovative. The story actually continues through it in wierd and wonderful ways. This is a game I’ll easily still be playing for years.
But my only advice is that you have to give it some time. It has a slow start and it’ll take a few hours to really start to click. So if you don’t want a game you have to spend a lot of time on, Outer Worlds will be a quick romp.
Sadly I’ll never get to enjoy it, I’m not gonna buy an Xbox just to play it. Really really stupid that we’re still doing exclusive games in 2023. I’m a PlayStation user literally wanting to give Bethesda my money, but they don’t want it.
Of course they do, games are bloodline of a console and you think M$ gonna give a game made by it to a direct competitor? It’s like Apple allow other phone OEMs to use iOS
I think it’s dumb to deny themselves the fuckton of money that PlayStation users would have paid to buy the game, and that I would guarantee you that they didn’t sell even close to enough consoles to make up for it considering it’s a pretty shit game to begin with.
They could have recouped some of their money from it, but no- it’s a flop now.
Most of the “sale” of this game comes from xbox pass and that’s enough for M$. Xbox is already being outsold so giving Sony more advantage for a little recoup is stupid strategy.
As a PS person myself I don’t feel like we have the right to complain about exclusives! I’m pretty sure Sony has had way more than Xbox ever had and I am fine with it. In today’s market the only thing a console may have as an upper hand is an exclusive game. At least with Xbox games these days you immediately have the option to play on PC, which is what I do if I really want to play one, unlike Sony which has just started doing pc for exclusives but you are going to wait 1 or 2 years before it drops.
I like buying a PS every generation because I know it will have the best exclusives to play just like I have a switch because it’s the only place to play a Nintendo game. If they didn’t have those games why would anyone even bother buying a console at all? If they all shared the same games 100% it would be a coin flip to whatever platform you invest in at that point.
Since the starfield exclusivity thing started, this point has always stuck with me: PlayStation owners buy PlayStation because of the expectation that they will get the best exclusives (and even most other games first). It was so bizarre to see them so brazenly attack Xbox over making starfield exclusive. They couldn’t see that they were beneficiaries of these same tactics for so long that they just accepted it as “the way it is.” Logically, why would you ever buy an Xbox if PlayStation gets better exclusives and the other great games first? No one should be surprised when TES6 is Xbox/PC exclusive.
You can see how those two things are a little different though, right?
PlayStation buys smaller studios, usually that they have history with, and helps them to build games from the ground up - even new IP’s.
Microsoft bought a major studio that had a game near completion, a game that the studio fully intended on releasing on all platforms, and Microsoft exclusified it.
To be clear, I actually don’t like exclusives at all. But there’s still clearly a difference here, and I can understand where people are coming from when they criticize Microsoft and not Sony.
I don’t understand the difference honestly. Investment is investment. I think it’s stupid to do exclusives, but if one is going to build a walled garden then the other needs one too.
I’m PC only so I don’t give a fuck. I can emulate a Switch and eventually I’ll be able to emulate a PS5. If they want exclusives, they don’t want my money. If they stop building walled gardens then great.
I think it’s stupid to do exclusives, but if one is going to build a walled garden then the other needs one too.
I agree, but how you go about that is important imo. I’m on PC too, so let me use a better example that might hit closer to home.
Epic games. Their use of exclusives has garnered more hate then almost any other storefront in the pc space. But it’s not the exclusives in and of themselves - after all, people never cared when Fortnite didn’t come to Steam. Similarly, nobody lost their minds when The Sims was exclusive to Origin, or Assassins Creed to Uplay.
The difference between these games, as opposed to other Epic exclusives, is that these games were built by these companies from the ground up. Nobody cares if Fortnite is an Epic exclusive because Epic made that game - it’s their right to keep it to themselves. The same goes for the Sims with EA, and Assassins Creed with Ubisoft.
It’s only when Epic snatches nearly completed games that they had nothing to do with, that people get angry. So in this way, Microsoft is the Epic games of the console scene, while Sony is more akin to Ubisoft or something.
You can see how those two things are a little different though, right?
No, not really. Contrary to your point, Bethesda has worked quite closely with Xbox a number of times (especially back in the oblivion days) and Sony has never been interested in Bethesda’s ideas about games (support for Skyrim was abysmal on PlayStation and mods on PS3/4 were a joke).
Is MS a huge jerk for yanking starfield out of the hands of the majority of console gamers? Yeah totally, but Sony is also a huge jerk (and has been) for a long time when it comes to negotiating exclusivity deals, which they have been able to do because they are the number 1 console. It’s really not hard to extrapolate how much leverage Sony has over the industry when you see that they have sold 75% more consoles than xbox (35 vs 20 million units sold PS5/XS). I believe the previous gen was even worse. The outcry over this would have been much smaller if the roles were reversed, because it would have just been business as usual for every gamer.
And I’m not going to buy a Playstation just to play The Last of Us, Spiderman, Detroit: Become Human or any of the other games Sony refuses to sell Xbox users.
I’d love to play those games but Sony just doesn’t want my money.
Same. I’ve got thousands of hours in Skyrim. It’s my favourite game of all time. But I’m more into sci fi than fantasy generally and Starfield is shaping up to be everything I would’ve asked for. It’s taken over my life and I have no regrets. Bethesda smashed it again.
Those are handmade, and it’s honestly the issue. If the bases were procedural out of descrete hand made chunks, it’d be less repetitive. There seems to be about five bases for the procedurally placed content, and once you’ve done it once it gets dull. It’s not even like they made furnature procedural or anything like that to change up the looks. They could have at least made different doors locked procedurally so you have to take different routes each time.
This tracks. There was the whole Hyenas debacle and their flagship series has been struggling. There is no need or desire for yearly Total War releases, they are just a waste of time and money. Warhammer 3 has been bungled from the get-go. There were a few bright spots where it seemed like they could turn it around, but now its seemingly in a downward spiral from which I doubt it will recover. RIP. Easy money blown down the drain by a severely mismanaged company.
I’ll need to double check if it looks like this outside of conversations, but I certainly feel like I’ve been playing a much better looking game than this.
Looks to me like this was cranked to low. About as honest as using a Mortal Kombat 1 screenshot from the Switch, but I guess it’s their fault for allowing people to lower their graphics like this.
I’ve been playing on minimum graphics, and it looks much better than any previous Bethesda game. The performance isn’t too great, and the TAA is a bit blurry, but it’s tolerable.
The game is usually quite attractive, but skin in particular is pretty bad in a lot of lighting. Subsurface scattering would go a long way to making them not look like clay, but there are other methods to fix this as well.
This is easily their best game post morrowind, in both story and gameplay, but I’m also not playing it anymore since it’s so cpu heavy that it’s forcing me to wait for fan patches or something; and I’m playing Cyberpunk just fine.
Is it really? What makes you say that? I don’t agree. There’s no more role play than FO4 (likely less). They removed the “yes, no, sarcastic, more information” wheel but the functionality is literally identical, just presented differently. You have relatively little freedom in how you play the game. The systems connecting things together also do a poor job connecting it. I don’t care for it. I am a huge fan of sci-fi and have been playing Bethesda games for a long time, and this one doesn’t do it for me.
Starfield just doesn’t look or play like a game that came out in 2023. Fallout 4 was already behind the curve for it’s time, and Starfield is basically just Fallout 4 in Space 8 years later. Rpgs have evolved in both gameplay and narrative and Bethesda just isn’t keeping up. Don’t know if it’s a skill issue or it’s corporate suits playing it safe and setting unreasonable deadlines, probably a mix of both.
Starfield may be a success financially and find a fan base for now, but it’s going to be forgotten soon by most and definitely won’t be seeing rereleases a decade later.
Imagine relying on free labor to fix your broken ass game, and then having people defend you when called out for making a boring game that relies on free labor for content.
Imagine thinking that what is very probably the most hand-crafted content ever in a 3D game, with one of the broadest variety of choices for anything close to that scale, is a game lacking content.
It's not an opinion. If you ignore straight procedural generation with no human input like no man's sky, Starfield is very probably the biggest 3D game ever made. The fact that it's an absolutely massive game isn't debatable in any way.
Nobody who's played it is making the ridiculous claim that they ran out of content. It's fundamentally not possible for "relying on mods for content" to be in good faith.
BG3 is a top down CRPG. Having 3D assets and being a 3D game with full 3D movement aren't the same thing.
And whether it's more content is debatable. There's more pure story and production, with a lot of branching, but the overall amount of space (not counting Starfield's use of negative space because of the setting) is significantly smaller. And even in terms of total number of quest lines, Starfield has a lot. Which you can get more time out of is all about personal preference. There will be people with 1000 hours in both, easy.
Turn based and action are mutually exclusive. It is not and does not resemble an action game.
The assets are 3D. You do not play in 3D. You do not cast a spell and have the physics of your interaction calculated in real time while 10 other characters are simultaneously acting and having their spells calculated based on the real time movements of all the other characters. You do not hit a jump button and have where you land determined by your speed and direction. The actual gameplay mechanics are all pure dice roll. There are no 3D physics in play.
Your jump must be decided by the vector of your movement when you hit the button. If it is not, there is literally nothing you can do to qualify.
Your actions must be aimed in real time and the outcome determined by the vector of your aim. Hitscan is shit, but it can qualify. If the action (not the vector of the shot) is decided by a dice roll, you unconditionally do not qualify.
There's plenty more. But BG3 is not and does not in any way mechanically resemble a 3D action RPG. It has no common traits. The camera perspective outside of combat isn't relevant.
I think you’re simply misunderstanding what “3D” means. 3D does not mean real-time, dynamic, or anything else. It simply means 3D. BG3 is entirely in 3D. Every single asset is 3D hell the entire explorable world is 3D. So yes, it quite literally is a 3D game. With action. Making it a 3D action game.
Think of what the alternative would be. Is this a 2D action game? Obviously not.
If you’re looking for a 3D real-time action game then yeah, this isn’t that. But that’s not what anyone’s arguing.
Edit: Also… is your argument that a game like Morrowind isn’t in 3D? Just because hits are handled by dice rolls? That’s insane lol.
No, it is not. You do not have a position in 3D space. You have a position on one of a small number of discrete 2D planes. BG3 is a 2D pure CRPG that happens to be decorated with 3D assets. Calling it a 3D game is the exact same unforgivable fraud as calling Metroid Dread one. It is not and does not in any way resemble it.
If you aren't strictly in real time for combat, you unconditionally cannot be or resemble an action game.
To be fully 3D, literally every part of the core gameplay physics must occur in real time. Hits cannot be determined by any other factor but the vector of the attack projected through 3D space into a character's hit box. The existence of a dice roll to determine a hit (not the vector) is an unconditional disqualifier in all contexts. There are no exceptions, and no room for them.
Everything about your description of BG3 is fully unhinged nonsense that should be offensive to any human being with any understanding of what games are. They aren't nitpicks. You're fundamentally destroying the core definition of very basic terms in a way that completely destroys all meaning. It would be less disgusting to be a flat earther.
In BG3 you do have a position in 3D space, what’re you talking about? Have you ever even played the game? My money’s on no.
Metroid Dread is a side scroller in which only one dimension is ever viewable outside of cutscenes. BG3 is a full 3D world with full camera movement, to the point of being an over the shoulder third person game should you choose to play it that way. They’re apples and oranges.
If you aren’t strictly in real time for combat, you unconditionally cannot be or resemble an action game.
If this were true then the term “real-time action” wouldn’t exist, as the term would be redundant. Besides, how do you then define games that have a bit of both, like Chrono Trigger? The whole thing seems a bit silly to me.
Hits cannot be determined by any other factor but the vector of the attack projected through 3D space into a character’s hit box.
So again, by your definition a game like Morrowind wouldn’t be considered a 3D game. That’s completely unhinged lol, nobody would agree with that. Clearly your definition is a bit flawed.
You’re fundamentally destroying the core definition of very basic terms in a way that completely destroys all meaning. It would be less disgusting to be a flat earther.
…I think maybe you need to take a break and go outside or something.
Literally everything about game development is a trade off. It's not possible to make a game at 5% of Starfield's scale as polished as a rockstar game. The difference in scale is too massive.
The scope of Bethesda games is a huge part of the point. Nobody else makes anything similar to what they offer.
UE5 is "the same engine" iterated on in the same way Bethesda's is, there are plenty of games using UE that don't run well, and it would take plenty of custom work to build to Bethesda's scale using it.
The current iteration of Unreal is completely unrecognizable from its original rendition, meanwhile this new version of the Creation Engine literally retains bugs present back in the days of Gamebryo. You simply can’t compare the two. But, in Bethesda’s defense, this isn’t due to incompetence or anything. It’s due to resource allocation and incentive.
There’s a reason most devs have been moving towards Unreal and away from making their own engines, and it’s because making your own proprietary engine takes insane amounts of time and resources - time and resources that devs don’t get any return on mind you. For most, it doesn’t make sense to dedicate loads of time to polishing an engine, when that time could be better spent on your next game - a game that you actually do get a return on.
Unreal is completely different in this regard, as Epic actually does get a return on their investment into the engine, as the engine itself is their product. So they have every incentive to polish Unreal as much as possible. That’s why it’s so insanely polished and indistinguishable from its original rendition. Not because all engines magically improve over time and at the same rate.
I know Todd Howard said that engines are somehow meaningless, and then a bunch of Bethesda fans took that and ran with it as a way to defend any criticism of the Creation Engine, but unfortunately it’s just not that simple.
And to be clear, I want the Creation Engine to succeed. I’ve been modding Bethesda games since 2013 and am still active in the modding community! The engine is rough but makes all of it possible, and the community at this point knows it so well that it’d be devastating to suddenly lose it all. But Bethesda needs to sit down and really dedicate some time to overhauling it, and unfortunately, albeit understandably, I just don’t see that happening.
Internet commenters keep getting dumber and dumber. I figured anyone with two brain cells to rub together would see that human beings can understand nuance and that not everyone likes or dislikes the same things and that the entire game is not 100% objectively bad.
People tend to think on black and white and not grayscale.
If you objectively compare the mechanics, writings and factions to fallout 4, Starfield is almost a direct upgrade from fallout 4 in several aspects. Gunplay, gun customization, rpg check choices that play more role in having a unique experience, factions that arent totally terribly written like it is in FO4, where almost all factions are unlikable or not interesting.
The people who are let down by starfield expected bethesda to not make a bethesda game in simple terms.
Do i think its GOTY material, hell no (im basically at the point of no return point in the game). Its a helluva lot better than FO4, but people treat the game like it killed their first child.
Well, I wouldn't necessarily say the exploration is as good, I think the issues about not having maps and there being a lot of loading screens are valid, but those problems don't automatically make the game horrible, and while the optimization isn't awesome after the recent update and Nvidia driver it looks decent and runs at an almost always locked out 60 FPS on my RTX 3060 with the settings lowered, so if you want the better visuals you can get there, and if you wanna play with smooth frame rate you can make that work, too. Again, not that that excuses it, but it's not irredeemably bad.
I think it's important that people understand what works about the game and what doesn't, whether they come to an end result of liking it or not, I hate to see people shit on it wholesale, and I also hate to see people defend it wholesale as well. It's got problems, but it's got successes, too.
I've actually been really enjoying it. It's a pleasant universe to just get absorbed in.
Sure, it's got a lot of very valid complaints (performance, UX etc.) but they matter less to me the more I get into it. Writing is not groundbreaking, but it gets pretty good. Since very good voice acting from otherwise random NPCs.
Also the first game I've played that lets me use non-binary pronouns as a third option, rather than just Gendered or not. Very cool and I hope to see more games do that.
I'd say the most disappointing thing is how straightforward almost every quest is. They don't do what Obsidian does in games like New Vegas and Outer Worlds where lots of quests have multiple resolutions, some hidden. In this game if it's not in the objective list it's usually not an option. It's the typical Bethesda experience of course, rather than Obsidian's, so it's still nice for what it is.
It's the closest I've personally felt to exploring and interacting with the worlds of Mass Effect 1 and Knights of the Old Republic in a long time. It's got that sense of wander about it for me.
Yeah the straightforward quests are sometimes a little disappointing.
I.e. there’s a tiny side quest where you have to get some rich guys wedding ring back from his fiance. You go to the fiance and that say that they saw the rich guy cheating (having a conversation) with the waiter at their favorite restaurant, and that they shouldn’t have to give the ring back.
I went back to the rich guy to find out if this was true, and to insert myself firmly into their drama, but there was no new dialogue from the rich guy. I just had to pick a dialogue option to either take the ring or let the fiance keep it.
It would have been nice to be able to confirm my suspicions that they were just being friendly with the waiter, not cheating, and maybe get the two back together. But no it was go to person A, get quest, speak to person B, return with ring/update that they are keeping it.
There are some great quests, and lots of cool world building, but the RP portion is sometimes a bit lacking compared to (as you mentioned) New Vegas.
The only game that scratches the space exploration itch Elite doesn't quite scratch (I mean, Elite is very good, but has it's shortcomings when it comes to on-foot stuff). Ship interiors, base building and having actual life on planets, not just some fungoida and bacterium patches, alone are a reason to be excited about Starfield. Also, jetpack combat.
Funny how Elder Scrolls veterans are enjoying the game for what it is while bitter Playstation diehards, wishful thinkers with gigabyte-sized dreams.txt and bandwagon-o'-hate jumpers are complaining about things that never were to be so loud you can clearly hear the "Reeeeeeeeeee...." from Alpha Centauri😏
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