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lofuw, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks

Copying != stealing

The laws are written so people richer than you can be even richer. Don’t support them unless you’re a useful idiot.

jordanlund, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I could see using AI for tasks that are so mind numbing and mundane it might actually be cruel to make a human do it.

“I need a perfectly tileable concrete wall texture for a video game, make it light gray with random spots of yellow and white paint.”

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/493b8de3-f7a4-41a7-b09d-a1ef23a6ede2.png

Took about a minute.

But then, if you’re going to do THAT, there are already royalty free libraries where it’s already done.

Saledovil,

Nobody did that by hand even before Gen Ai was invented. Even before photography or computers, there were techniques to get textures without manually drawing them. The splotches, for example, could be accomplished by shaking the brush at the canvas.

Melonpoly, (edited )

Those sort of things are easy to do with procedural textures. You’re example isn’t even tileable.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Well of course not, AI did it in 1 minute. 🤣

Melonpoly,

You have no point then, AI isn’t even able to do something mundane. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

It did get maybe 90% there in a minute which is faster than a person would do it. Not a perfect tile, maybe take a few more interations. But not awful for cobbled together in a minute, and if your job is to come up with 50 or 100 different textures, still better than doing it by hand.

But as I noted, there are also already royalty free libraries for this stuff as well.

Melonpoly,

I don’t think you know anything about texturing. Even if you eventually got to a point where it gave you something usable it’s not going to be consistent.

If you’re job is to create 100+ textures and you’re only able to get 90% of the way there for each variation, you’re fucked. You can create infinite variations of a texture with procedural once your initial setup is done. AI couldn’t even get a basic bitch texture right how is it going to deal with more complex textures?

pipe01,

…so you’re proving yourself wrong?

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Not at all wrong, just showing what can be done with virtually zero effort and time.

I could most likely perfect it in a few minutes more, still a fraction of the time of doing it by hand. I’m not extending a proof of concept to win arguments on the Internet. 😉

But as I noted at the bottom of the comment, which apparently nobody bothered to read, there are ALREADY royalty free libraries for this kind of thing. So it also has to be faster than searching libraries that are already there.

Of course that action is it’s own time sink as anyone who has gone looking for “the perfect font” can tell you.

MotoAsh,

It’s not really a proof of concept if it doesn’t even meet the only mildly challenging criteria laid out…

You’re getting roasted because you basically did the equivalent of going, “well I asked ChatGPT and it said, [demonstrably wrong answer]”.

MotoAsh,

The problem with your example is there are traditional algorithms that can do that, and better.

jordanlund,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

They can, but they also don’t meet the corporate dictate of “Everyone use AI.” 😉

MotoAsh,

Who are these dictators that need to meet the guillotine?

SkunkWorkz, (edited )

Someone skilled in Substance Designer can also do that in minutes. And then you have a file that can generate an infinite number of variations that look artistically consistent including normal maps, roughness maps etc.

MiddleAgesModem, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks

Theft of what? The jobs are a legitimate concern though.

inclementimmigrant,

I guess you’re living up to your user name.

torrentfreak.com/nvidia-contacted-annas-archive-t…

and

variety.com/…/wga-disney-openai-deal-theft-of-our…

and

hollywoodreporter.com/…/george-rr-martin-openai-c…

But of course when corporations infringe on copyright it’s fine right it’s not theft at all.

CMDR_Horn, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks

Will the end result of this be panacea for the indie Dev? Essentially all the major producers end up killing off all their talent by forcing AI, and those folks now form their own indie studios and make the games we actually want.

almost1337,

One can only hope.

Feyd,

The question is who funds these theoretical new studios? Indie studios more often than not have to make deals with the devil so they can eat. Then, even if their game is a smash hit, the investors take the lion’s share of profit and still control the actual devs by the purse strings. This society is sick.

Aielman15,
@Aielman15@lemmy.world avatar

If you were to listen to the internet, it would seem that AAA studios are be on their last gasp, with indie devs dancing on their graves.

The reality is that, aside from the big indie game of the moment (think Silksong or Expedition 33, if you want to count the latter as indie), most gamers don’t care or don’t even know indie games exist in the first place.
I have a few gamer friends (each of whom spends a few hours daily on games), and only one of them plays maybe one indie game per year, and only those who manage to breach through his bubble via influencers and streamers.

Feyd,

Ehhh I know a lot of people that play indie games, but generally they only play one or two genres of them. Part of it is that the terminology gets confusing because people mean different things. Like, other than baldur’s gate, I couldn’t tell you the last western AAA game I played. But I played FF7 rebirth which is definitely AAA but not what people are always talking about when that talk about AAA sinking. There are also tons of studios that you probably wouldn’t call AAA but you also wouldn’t call indie. Like, I probably play more games from Falcom than any other studio. They’re not huge headcount-wise or cutting edge technology-wise but they’ve been consistently making games since the 80s. I think a lot of people don’t bucket those types of developers in their heads at all.

SkunkWorkz,

Indie devs don’t need to reach mainstream mindshare to become successful. An indie team that’s stays small and nimble doesn’t need to reach a million unit in sales. Like how many mainstream gamers have heard of Tiny Glade a game that made a few million dollars created by two people.

jimmy90,

what is going to happen when the prices rocket up and who is going to create the content for future AI?

MiddleAgesModem,

Isn’t that already the case though?

deafboy, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks
@deafboy@lemmy.world avatar
Darkcoffee, do games w "AI is Theft, I Have to Use It, Otherwise I'll Get Fired": GDC Reports One-Third of Game Workers Are Using GenAI for Daily Tasks

This is a reality. The snake of capitalism is eating its own fail

Xttweaponttx, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed
zanyllama52, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed
@zanyllama52@infosec.pub avatar

Never would I ever subscribe to a game service. That’s just me.

altima_neo,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

I justified it as a games rental. I mean I easily paid $5 to rent a game for the weekend in the 90s. Paying 12 bucks to rent games all month long wasn’t bad (for PC).

But the price they’re charging now, I may as well buy the games I do play, rather than paying for the subscription. The problem for Microsoft is that money is gonna be going to steam instead of them.

sadfitzy,

Your justification is exemplary of how useful idiots operate.

mrgoosmoos,

you wouldn’t? not if the cost and convenience was right? just out of principle, regardless of value?

I could see doing it if I had more time to game

zanyllama52,
@zanyllama52@infosec.pub avatar

I don’t feel good about not having the ability to do what I want with my games; the idea of games being “mine” goes away if I cannot buy, sell, resell, loan, copy, backup, modify or destroy it.

I’m not sure how a digital gaming subscription service can compete with that no matter how cheap or how good the library is or how long the service is proposed to exist.

TommySalami,

I definitely see this. I think, at least the way I’ve used it, it’s replaced rentals for me (I miss video stores). I’ve picked it up 2-3 times, each time to play a specific game and cancelled at the end of the month. I’ve absolutely saved money that way, and didn’t really care about owning the content I was getting it for.

Don’t take this as an endorsement though. I don’t think that’s the intended use, and I doubt it would last if everyone did the same. Besides the price hike takes it out of that reasonable territory for the rental idea, at least for me.

killerscene,

same boat. as soon as that service was announced it never made sense to me.

i play a lot of games, but its never at a consistent pace, just makes more sense to buy.

same goes for shit like netflix. im not constantly watching something, so why wouldn’t i just buy the movie when i have a movie night.

Macaroni_ninja, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed
@Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world avatar

Pro financial tip: Be a patient gamer. Get the games you are interested in during sales. Fuck FOMO, subscription models and pre-orders.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I’ve got so many more games than I have time to play them that there’s never a need to play full price for anything. I wishlist em and pick them up when they’re on sale less than £10

Macaroni_ninja,
@Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly. My limit is also under 10 eur for most games on my wishlist, or 20 eur for games Im interested the most.

Regrettable_incident,
@Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah. I might break my rule for phantom liberty, it’s reduced to £17 at the mo. I’m enjoying cyberpunk so much I might make an exception here! But I’ve still got plenty in my backlog.

LucidNightmare,

While I wouldn’t say it is crucial by any means, it is a fun piece of DLC. I put over 400 hours into Cyberpunk before I got the DLC though, so that may have been why I was okay with purchasing it! Either way, it does make me happy to see someone enjoying the game! :-]

Guitarfun, (edited )

Lately, I’ve only been buying indie games. I can’t justify dropping $70-$80 on one game and even when those games go on sale they’re usually $40-$50.

If you read reviews and do a little research you’ll find that there are actually a lot of really cool indie games and you can get multiple games for just a fraction of the cost of double or triple A games.

ibot,

I agree. But if you are on a console and want to play online, you already need a subscription.

I want a subscription free Console that supports online play.

ltxrtquq,

That’s just a computer. If you’ve heard about the steam deck, you can set up a pc to be basically the same but more powerful and permanently hooked up to a tv.

ibot,

Yeah, I know that this is just a computer. From a skill point of view I have no problem to assemble it and set it up. The thing is I work in IT and spend the whole day on the computer. I do not want to administrate any system in my free time. That’s something I love about consoles. I’m aware they limit the possibilties, but they also low maintenance. I never actively installed system updates on my Xbox Series X, it is just done in the background. I turn it on and play. In worst case I need to install a game update. I have a store interface where I can buy and install games with pressing a few buttons. Inside the game, I do not need to play around with the graphic settings to find what runs best. If at all, I need to decide between graphics and performance mode. That’s what I love about consoles and do not want to have a gaming PC.

Consoles have obvious limitations, but they make it much easier if all you want to do is play.

ltxrtquq,

I do not want to administrate any system in my free time.

Do you have a computer you use at home? How much time exactly do you think it takes to manage a personal computer?

I have a store interface where I can buy and install games with pressing a few buttons.

Seriously, look into a steam deck. The interface is very console-like and you can have it on a normal desktop if you want. Or don’t, you already seem pretty convinced that you only want a console.

Guitarfun,

I second this. The Steam Deck is the best console and a really cheap gaming PC at the same time. You can emulate and use it for other programs without needing to mod it like you would a console and even though it’s linux, it’s so easy to use. You don’t really need to use the desktop mode for much if you don’t want to, but it’s not bad at all. I’ve switched to Bazzite as my only OS for my main computer because of how much SteamOS has impressed me.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

I want a subscription free Console that supports online play.

Sorry, best we can do is a PC or phone

zanyllama52,
@zanyllama52@infosec.pub avatar

Word. Just give me a completed game that is mostly bug free and has all features that are alleged to be part of the game on release.

Landless2029,

I always preferred waiting a year for AAA games. Patches, mods, guides and sales.

Even better when GOTY editions or bundles with all the DLC on sale.

sadfitzy,

Be a smart consumer. Don’t pay for things you could be getting for free just so the business can have a nicer campus.

If it’s a major release, wait until the game is finished and then torrent it.

voytrekk, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed

I haven’t subbed to gamepads for years because I knew this would eventually happen. Gamepass was designed to get people used to not purchasing games and instead letting them come to them. Subscribers now have to chose between paying even more each month or losing access to the library of games available to them.

SippyCup,

I learned after a few months of game pass that most of the games that looked interesting actually weren’t. It’s no big loss, and it’s cheaper to just buy the few games I actually want anymore. Doubly true now.

thoro,

Gamepass only ever made sense to people who had time to play or dabble in a sufficiently large amount of games per year and felt the need to play some new titles soon or immediately instead of waiting. Otherwise, eventually your total subscription costs would outpace the total cost to purchase what you played, especially if purchased on sale at a later date. And the value gets worse if you ever replayed a game (s).

I’ll never really understand the excitement about this service. It was always a Trojan horse.

TankovayaDiviziya,

Gamepass only ever made sense to people who had time to play or dabble in a sufficiently large amount of games per year

Exactly. I only played two games before unsubscribing. You have to have so many free time to make the gamepass worth your while and money.

sadfitzy,

Gamepass only made sense if you’re an idiot.

Everyone who isn’t stupid knew that they were renting access to something they could be getting for free. The business can raise fees whenever it wants, and you’re stuck either paying the higher rates or cutting your losses and having nothing to show for the money you wasted.

Renting is a scam and only morons think otherwise. Hopefully some of them grow up after seeing this, but I doubt it.

garretble, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

Honestly, I’ve kinda gone back to buying physical media.

I bought DK Bananza on cart, and guess what? After I finished it, I gave it to my brother. Imagine that! Sharing a game you own? Madness.

I’m eager to pick up Ghost of Yotei from the store this afternoon, as well.

zanyllama52,
@zanyllama52@infosec.pub avatar

I’ve never gone away from buying physical media, but I could understand exactly why you would want to return to it.

garretble,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

For me, when the Switch 1 came out it was just nice to have everything on the device and you never had to do the most heinous thing of taking a moment to put a cart into the device.

But more and more I buy one to two games a time and focus on those, so that issue is largely not a thing any more.

ilinamorato,

For me, with the Switch 1, I was worried about wanting to play a game but oh no it’s back at home. Happened a bunch of times with my 3DS.

But then I bought a case that had card slots in it, and that concern wasn’t much of a concern anymore. Then the pandemic happened, and I never really left home anyway, which meant it mattered even less. So now I have a few digital games that are super annoying to share.

Wispy2891,
@Wispy2891@lemmy.world avatar

For PC games that’s impossible, at most you can find a disc-shaped steam redeem code

garretble,
@garretble@lemmy.world avatar

That’s why I don’t really use Steam to buy games anymore, too.

At least maybe use GoG if possible to get a DRM free version.

syreus,

Family Share works really well in my experience. It worked better when I could change the users more frequently but this model is still works pretty well.

prettybunnys,

Is there a way to share a single game and use your library still?

I share my library with my son and when he’s using a game my whole library is unavailable to me, unless something has changed (or I’m old and ignorant … also likely)

Wispy2891,
@Wispy2891@lemmy.world avatar

And the huge drawback that if the kid finds some “easy trick to win matches” on YouTube and gets vac banned, the parent also gets vac banned

prettybunnys,

That would be grounds for a 64th trimester abortion IMO

syreus,

That part changed. You only share what game is in use now.

mellow,

Yeah they (if we’re talking about Steam here) changed their whole family stuff. You can keep playing, as long it’s not the same title.

store.steampowered.com/promotion/familysharing/

sadfitzy,

You never needed physical media in order to share games with others.

You still don’t, and you can share with more people digitally.

mintiefresh, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed
@mintiefresh@piefed.ca avatar

It’s honestly cheaper to just buy games than pay this subscription per year.

Plus, you get to keep the games.

sadfitzy,

It’s even cheaper to torrent them.

And you actually get to keep them.

SnotFlickerman, (edited ) do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed

The thing about this shit is…

Microsoft, like Google, is now a user-data driven company and they have already made loss/profit ratio analysis on this long before they released the price increase. They’re absolutely banking on people cancelling but making up the difference and then some from the people who stay.

For a thought experiment let’s consider how many subscribers they were reported to have in Feburary: 34 million. Let’s assume that everyone is paying for the highest tier to make the math easier. So current income would be 34 million user x $20 a month and thats $680 million a month. New income of 34 million users x $30 a month is $1.02 billion. The difference is $340 million a month. Let’s divide that by $30 a month. That gets us about 11,333,333 users. So they can hemorrhage over 11 million users and still break even. To make sure, let’s subtract 11 million users. That gives us 23 million users. 23 million users x $30 a month is $690 million a month, a cool $10 million a month above current profits.

For final context, 11 million users is roughly 32% of their entire subscriber count. They can afford to lose a third of the people subscribing and still make money.

The math doesn’t bode well for us who vote with our wallets.

Rentlar, (edited )

One could imagine that conveniently, Microsoft’s online support pages and the amount of support staff were designed to only handle hundreds of thousands of cancelations at a time.

quackerjo, (edited )

I’m not a licensed math surgeon, but I think your math is wildly optimistic in favor of Microsoft due to how the subscription totals are actually distributed per price tier.

I don’t doubt that they did a lot of math to figure out an acceptable level of churn for this change, I just don’t think it’s nearly as generous and wide as you’re calculating.

There probably is a very real churn limit that they’re trying to avoid, and my hunch is that there exists a breaking point that could be hit with an aggressive and sustained boycott / cancellation spree, but again, I’m not a math surgeon so I could be wrong. That’s just my gut feeling.

ramble81,

And it gets even better. Instead of up to 33% leaving, say 50% of that group convert to Premium instead of Ultimate. That isn’t any lost revenue since the price is going up to what Ultimate used to be. So that cushions their numbers even more.

ColeSloth,

Now factor in the cost savings from a lower server load and less staff to run the back end, and possibly the smaller licensing\use costs for the games available to play since less people would be accessing those games.

Jakule17,

Okay, but wouldn’t a higher price also discourage new people from subscribing in the first place? Or are companies that shortsighted?

Minnels,

Most of them are. Just make profit NOW!!

MrFinnbean,

The same math is there too. They can afford to loose one third of new subscribers to get the same amount of money.

But their new customer acquisition cost wont get higher at the same pace and they get more valuable customers whose payback period will be shorter.

Also i dont think its relevant here, but less customers means less operating costs, so they will most likelly save some money on customer service and behind the scenes things like server upkeeps etc., but i dont think these make real difference here.

Also if for some reason things start to go bad they still have option to create “a budget version” for the people who see the normal subscrition as too expencive.

Arcane2077, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed

Netflix Spotify Disney and Amazon proved that price hikes are effective at increasing profits even despite the loss of subscribers. Capitalism baby.

I think the only time collective cancellations actually hurt one of these companies was that time Jimmy Kimmel made fun of the president and it took an estimated 1.7M ex-Disney Plus subscribers.

cmhe,

Maybe, but in the Kimmel case there could have been other reasons too. Like Hollywood people not wanting to make business with a company that would just cancel contacts when they have opinions on public. Disney needs those people, arguable more than subscribers.

IMO, consumer boycotts don’t really work in general, here it might have worked, but it is also possible it worked for other reasons.

Arcane2077,

Consumer boycotts are pretty much the only strategy guaranteed to work, the only exceptions being Facebook and Google, as they’re the only businesses I can think of that are both primarily B2B, and can operate on speculative liquidity

Gerudo, do games w Shortly After Xbox Game Pass Prices Spiked, the Page to Cancel Game Pass Subscriptions Was Overwhelmed

Turned off my recurring billing. I’ll have about 3 months then it’s bye bye. I have been a customer since 360, but now will probably sign up for Playstation Network for the first time.

Prox,

Ehh… PSN isn’t really any better. Their Game Pass competitor is a hot mess. Better to just buy games outright, especially during sales.

whereyaaat,

Better to use your brain and torrent instead of being a useful idiot paying for corporate campuses.

Gerudo,

I know it’s not better, but it has a bunch of the catalog from Game Pass as well as a bunch of PS titles I’ve missed while being on Xbox.

Prox,

That’s a good callout - treating these game rental services more like we do with streaming video services by subbing to one for just a few months, then dropping it for another.

Gerudo,

Yeah I was shocked at the overlap of titles between the 2. If I had noticed that the last price hike, I might have switched sooner.

whereyaaat,

but now will probably sign up for Playstation Network for the first time.

Fucking hell… some people legitimately never learn.

They are destined to be suckers for life.

Gerudo,

Oh I’m sorry, did Playstation start charging 30 bucks for their service? Oh, it’s actually CHEAPER than Xbox even was? Oh and it’s a massive back catalog of PS games I haven’t played due to being on Xbox? Fuck me right?

dubyakay,

If you have a backlog of games that you have bought, why do you need an online subscription for them? Or am I misunderstanding something?

Gerudo,

I don’t have a backlog of PS games due to mainly playing Xbox for the last 20 something years. That’s why subscription services can make sense, you play through games you’ve missed out on. Kind of like sub hopping for tv streaming, you build up a back log, sub for a few months then move to the next.

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