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Jaysyn, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

This is great news!! For Godot.

AlmightySnoo, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

“Runtime fee” is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard im the programming world, I think we hit a new record of low

wizardbeard,

Beyond what this means for Unity and the indie gaming scene, I’m concerned about copycats.

With how big Unity is for hobbyists, I’m worried this might have an “Apple” effect, where other runtimes (even non-gaming related) begin to try this.

Natanael,

I’ve heard of proprietary code libraries before with expensive licensing, but still nothing this dumb

Gork, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

This is a good way to incentivize game developers to just not use Unity and just some other engine that does this.

Great for short term profits which makes the quarterly statements look good, but bad for long term sustainability.

Skoobie,
@Skoobie@lemmy.film avatar

Short term profits making quarterly reports look better to stakeholders. Isn’t that how 80% of these bigwigs get their job in the first place? We should be calling it the Zaslav Model at this point 😂.

Gork,

Just because it looks better to shareholders now doesn’t make it a good business decision. I swear the majority of CEO types don’t give a damn if the company goes under in a few years because they either:

  1. Have a golden parachute in place by sucking up to the Board.
  2. Will move on to another CEO position at another company before it folds. Bonus points if they golden parachute on the way out.
Jajcus,

Modern corporate management model is just broken.

HBK,
@HBK@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That’s what the golden parachute is supposed to be for: a payout long term so the CEO doesn’t make a short term decision that fucks the company up but pays out big. Ex: offering a stock package that you can’t sell for 5-10years.

A decision like this will pay out HUGE in the short term, but if they don’t change it I doubt many will be using unity in a few years.

commandar,

The CEO of Unity used to the the CEO of EA.

It explains a lot.

BarterClub,

A CEO who can’t manage. Shocker.

Serinus, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

Yeah, this will insure I never use Unity. But at least they can collect from their existing games.

OsrsNeedsF2P, (edited ) do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

I work for a small (15 people) Unity gaming company. Will let you know what the CEO says, just shared the actual Unity blogpost

Edit: Update - CEO added a gravestone emoji and said “yikes”

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1e5f2e17-fb28-4d31-bdbd-9bea20207c23.png

colonial,
@colonial@lemmy.world avatar

For the sake of your sanity, I hope there’s a resolution to this that doesn’t involve a rewrite.

AWittyUsername,

This is the problem with being a whole company on the ecosystem of another, they can pull the rug at any time.

jackoid,

Yeah this is why many bigger studios just use their own Engines even if they’re shit.

reversebananimals,

The problem is that its so expensive to build from scratch. All Unity does is build just the engine, and that’s enough to make it a 7000 person company. Trying to build a game engine and then an actual game on top is a herculean effort.

This is why open source software is so important. It enables these small companies to pool their resources and share an engine as long as they each contribute fixes back.

Floey, (edited )

7000 people is misleading. Being a general purpose game engine it has to be everything for everybody. An engine developed for a single game can be simpler, and once it is done, making the game will be simpler than it will be in Unity. Also those 7000 people are doing way more things than develop an engine.

That said, an engine like Unity can save a massive amount of time, especially for games that are medium scope. It’s these games where developing engine code and tooling would both take a lot of time and the advantages would likely go unnoticed.

mojo, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

That’s pretty awesome of them to do such a great Godot advertisement

chemical_cutthroat, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

This is 100% targeted at bleeding indie game developers dry in hopes of taking some of that sweet viral cash from devs like the one who made Vampire Survivors. They see that indie devs are charging $3-5 for their games, and so they aren’t hitting the $200k threshold unless they go viral, so Unity is charging by install, not just by total revenue. I hope that the ESA or other interested groups take legal action against this retroactive greed.

Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow,

Has to be a smarter way than this. This is just going to make devs go back to activation limits.

chemical_cutthroat,
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

After seeing the way WotC handled DnD and MtG, and the way Musk has been dragging Twitter through the shit, I really believe that shareholders are trying to take what they can while they can and peace out. No one is looking at the long term anymore. Everyone just wants theirs, fuck everything else.

LiveLM,

No one is looking at the long term anymore.

It feels like no one has been looking at the long term for ages now, and this is just the natural conclusion

colonial, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@colonial@lemmy.world avatar

I can’t decide if they’ll get away with this or if they’re committing corporate suicide.

TwilightVulpine, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

This might kill entire indie projects.

9point6,

There’s other engines, this will kill unity

TwilightVulpine,

I know and thank goodness for that... but there will be projects that simply won't be able to afford to move to entirely different engines. It's a lot of work that might have to be redone.

9point6,

There’s going to be a lot of money on the table for another engine that can build a unity migration or abstraction tool

I don’t see that being left on the table for long

echo64,

… not really, and for what a few years? Indie devs don’t have a lot of money, and there is a huge discrepancy between unity and other engines. They work in fundamentally different ways.

9point6,

There are some pretty big games built in unity, the money on the table is coming from them, (assuming reasonable licensing terms) not the small indie games.

I may be entirely off the mark, as I don’t work in that part of the industry. But I’ve messed around with unity and it’s not particularly unique compared to any other engine it competes with in my experience, particularly when it comes to actual runtime. Assets will need conversion and sure, the API shim will probably give a performance hit, but there’s no reason I can see that unity is fundamentally different.

Asifall,

I’m sure someone will try, but it seems nearly impossible to do this in a way that’s actually useful. Most game engines are going to have fundamental differences that won’t easily map to the unity way of doing things

captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Art assets, sound effects, storylines, that sort of thing transfers pretty easily.

Rigging, animations, scripting, physics…these pretty much don’t and would have to be rewritten from scratch.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

I’m in the middle of a project right now that’s going to be released on an out-of-date engine because the newest versions broke backward compatibility and I’m too far along to port everything. If I had to change engines entirely at this point I’d have to cancel the entire project.

BURN,

Honest question though, what other small engines have the support and features of unity while also having the permissive licensing they used to have?

At least when I was looking into engines unreal and unity really stood out as the only useable free engines.

Defaced,

There’s unreal, Godot, and a couple others I can’t think of off the top of my head. They’re not as widely used because they lack the feature set of unreal and unity, but they’re out there.

BURN,

That’s pretty much what I thought. Unity is so big because it offers a ton of features with a pretty permissive license. There’s not something comparable except unreal, which has an even worse licensing situation

Aux,

The thing about Unreal is that you can always negotiate with Epic Games. And if they like your project, they can even invest or provide tech support.

BURN,

True, but you also have to deal with Epic, which is a downside for many. It’s a great engine without a doubt, but it does come with its downsides too

EnglishMobster,

I dunno if Epic’s licensing is worse. At least it’s a cut of revenue and not charging per install.

Not to mention that Epic gives sweetheart deals to indies periodically. They make their money from Fortnite, not the engine.

theterrasque,

Unity got popular because it was simpler than unreal, and way more feature complete than Godot.

Was… these days unreal is easier to work with, and Godot is much more capable. So it’s mostly inertia at this point. And now everyone is going to take a real hard look at the alternatives.

9point6,

I’m not a game engineer, so someone else who’s actually in that segment of the industry can probably give more answers, but Godot and Bevy seem to be making some waves.

And if they’re not enough for what a dev needs, given these license changes, I don’t really understand why someone wouldn’t pick unreal or something much more comprehensive over unity now.

Correct me if I’m off the mark, but unity always seemed like what you’d go for if you wanted something like unreal, but (completely understandably) didn’t want to pay the fees associated with it

AWittyUsername,

I only prefer unity for 2 reasons, 1. I have assets that I’ve purchased. 2 I like c#.

Vittelius,
  1. You can actually import assets from unity into godot using a 3rd party add-on (If the assets license allows is)
  2. Godot has C# scripting
captain_aggravated,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

It depends on the game you’re making.

Godot has a dedicated workflow for 2D games, so I’d rather make one of those color sorting puzzle games that’s all people play on mobile these days in Godot than Unity or Unreal.

ahornsirup,
@ahornsirup@artemis.camp avatar

It's probably still going to take some projects with it. If you've sunk hundreds or even thousands of manhours into a project you can't just... do it again, or at least not always. Especially not if you've invested money as well as time, which is probably the case for most indie projects that aren't literal one-person shows.

BURN,

There’s not really anything other than unreal that has the same capabilities. This isn’t just going to kill unity, it’ll kill a ton of indie developers

TheRagingGeek,

I have a friend who has been moderately successful in the game creation space and he is saying he wants to just give up at this point because of this change.

BURN,

I can’t even blame him. I would too. This is essentially a situation where the only option is going to be a rewrite from the ground up in a new language and new engine.

If I was an indie game dev I’d be questioning my future right now too.

The_v,

This will kill new development on the engine and older games without who have a limited number of users.

The ones halfway or more through development to recently launched will have to move to subscriber model or a shit-ton of ads.

In the next 3-5 years however their profits will likely be up. So some larger company will likely buy them out.

Touching_Grass,

I think we need to kill everything so this is a good start. Snake blisken LA

TwilightVulpine,

Indies are the ones who deserve to die the least.

NecoArcKbinAccount, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@NecoArcKbinAccount@kbin.social avatar

Switch to Godot or FTEQW, screw Unity.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

FTEQW

Quake world engine. Huh, wasn’t aware of that one! Speaking of which, you can do all sorts of silly stuff with Doom sourceports, so that’s also a valid alternative.

Ozzy, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

thank God for their inconvenient way of installing and using of the engine itself, if I didn’t have a hard time back then I wouldn’t have switched to Godot 🙏🙏🙏

50gp,

firing up godot felt nice, no logins or other bullshit

Coreidan, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

More enshitification. This is the kind of stuff I’ve grown to expect from tech companies. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are bleeding money due to interest rates and they need any way possible to stay afloat.

AngryAnusHornets,

deleted_by_author

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  • nothingcorporate,

    That’s the definition of capitalism

    orrk,

    line go up or die

    Angius,

    They haven’t been profitable for, like, past half a decade or so. Each year brings bigger and bigger losses.

    Seeing how the CEO sold 50k shares over the last year, and another 2k not long ago, I can see it being the last hail mary to extract as much money as possible and sell the company to Microsoft/Apple/Facebook/Whoever is willing to buy

    MargotRobbie, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    You guys should check out Stride if you are looking for another C# based engine. It’s open source, but pretty rough around the edges right now.

    Or, go for Godot for something more mature.

    NocturnalMorning,

    Don’t know that I’d call Godot mature exactly. It’s still missing a lot of major features that both Unity and Unreal have.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Can you name some? Honest question, I don’t know either Unity or Unreal in depth, I’m just aware that Godot still struggles with performance in the 3D department

    NocturnalMorning,

    This is a bit old now, but has a good break down of stuff that’s missing for large games. Godot 4 works well for smaller 3D games just fine, it just doesn’t do stuff like level streaming. Also it’s missing a landscape tool. (Though there is a third party one, not sure if it was ported to Godot 4 yet or not)

    godotengine.org/…/whats-missing-in-godot-for-aaa/

    QuadratureSurfer,
    @QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

    What about Open 3D Engine? Basically an updated version of Lumberyard. o3de.org

    MargotRobbie,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d imagine Unity user would most likely be looking for a C# based engine instead of a C++ or Python based one, and O3DE doesn’t support C#.

    AWittyUsername, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

    We chose this because each time a game is downloaded, the Unity Runtime is also installed," the company explained in adding the fee.

    Ok and??

    grayman,

    Every copy costs them money. Don’t you know how digital copies work?!

    Touching_Grass,

    Guys they’re artists. They deserve to be paid every time you play any game. You wouldn’t steal a car

    Natanael,

    starts copies of GTA on a thousand computers

    derpgon,

    Every copy has to be hand made by routing bits around the copper highway ar ludicrous speeds, and rearrange them manually to form what is called “a game”.

    sebinspace,

    Like… wow, that’s what the engine is! Fucken doinks.

    Chickenstalker,

    Firstly, how dare you! Secondly, unity is made from a limited resource, which is whale balls. For every download of unity, a whale loses one of its balls. Think of the whales!

    2ncs,

    So if Microsoft published a Unity developed game on Windows, Microsoft could easily charge a $0.20 free to the unity team for installing the Unity Runtime on their OS.

    Not being completely serious there. Honestly thought, did the CEO not realize if they start doing this, what’s to stop another company from doing that to them. Things like mp3, where developers need to pay a license for, could then be charged in a similar fashion for each install.

    Kolanaki, (edited ) do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
    !deleted6508 avatar

    Oh yeah… I can’t see this being weaponed by the bad side of the consumers.

    Game comes out, it does something stupid or just “woke” and pisses people off. They attack the dev by installing more copies. Company goes bankrupt. Dickhead gamers win.

    lazycouchpotato,
    @lazycouchpotato@lemmy.world avatar

    I got some clarifications from Unity regarding their plan to charge developers per game install (after clearing thresholds)

    • If a player deletes a game and re-installs it, that’s 2 installs, 2 charges
    • Same if they install on 2 devices
    • Charity games/bundles exempted from fees

    Regarding this being abused by bad actors:

    Unity says it will use fraud detection tools and allow developers to report possible instances of fraud to a compliance team

    • @stephentotilo
    nature_man,

    That clarification makes it even worse, this is obviously an attempt to push free to play or indie games out the window while making major bank.

    The fraud detection will not help at all to prevent abuse especially in cases like steam family sharing where other “users” won’t have to pay to install the game!

    There’s literally no reason to charge per game install here, the only possible reason is greed

    Hildegarde,

    The fraud detection is especially bad because they have a financial incentive to ignore, or under-report installation fraud.

    nature_man,

    Exactly! I’d put money on a group abusing it, admitting to abusing it, and the game devs still being charged in the near future.

    BURN,

    So basically they’re explicitly condoning it. That’s not just bad, but even worse that they’re doubling down that a delete+reinstall will charge the dev twice.

    This will end a lot of indie projects and they’ve basically destroyed their good standing in indie dev circles.

    Da_Boom,
    @Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

    It’s time to chuck unity in the bin. If not Godot, go for unreal… though I would check their requirements beforehand first.

    teruma,

    Hard to chuck unity in the bin when you don’t use unity.

    We’re lucky there are enough other engines on the market at the moment, but eventually someone will need to spearhead a FOSS engine with blackjack and hookers.

    NocturnalMorning,

    Godot is a FOSS engine.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    But does it have the blackjack and hookers? 🤔

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    I’d make my own branch with BJ and hookers, but both GCC and Clang failed to compile :(

    NocturnalMorning,

    I’m sure somebody somewhere has made both of those games in Godot. Lol

    teruma,

    Oh, fantastic. Good to know, thanks!

    carpelbridgesyndrome,

    So once a game stops selling it had better hope its player base dries up and stops reinstalling it? The way that is phrased makes it sound like you could net lose money over the long term if sales decline and people keep reinstalling it

    Da_Boom,
    @Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

    Also, what counts as an install? Ive seen many unity based games that don’t have an installer and just run standalone? Would a standalone game count as already installed? Is it a first run thing in that case? Honestly this, and the additional clarification raises more questions than it answers?

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