bin.pol.social

Redfugee, do gaming w [Steam Key Giveaway] 3x Stardew Valley to give away

I wasn’t able to play it because my PC wasn’t powerful enough, but now I finally upgraded to something from this decade so now I’m good.

MITM0, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact
@MITM0@lemmy.world avatar

First of all, the devs don’t have any choice, the Pencil-pushers do

MyDarkestTimeline01, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

The only choice it really limits from the publisher is the choice to decide to stop supporting a game out of nowhere. This new plan would just make it so you have to eventually plan to sunset the game from its “live” elements.

Endymion_Mallorn,
@Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org avatar

It also means there will never be another F2P game. They have to make their money upfront from every user. They can't just turn it off when the profit slows and/or stops.

moody,

Genshin Impact is a F2P game that makes stupid amounts of money. If it stopped making money, they could very well just stop developing for it and let it be as it is.

jjjalljs, do games w Founder of Arkane Studios: "I think Gamepass is an unsustainable model that has been increasingly damaging the industry for a decade"; impacts sales

Game pass was always going to be bad for consumers, and probably bad for smaller orgs. The problem is people are short sighted and don’t care.

Like with Walmart moving into a neighborhood. People are like oh it’s so much cheaper than the local shops! And then those get priced out of business and Walmart raises prices and lowers salary. People won’t or can’t think ahead

skisnow,

Absolutely. Every indicator available suggests Enshittification will hit the subscription models within the next few years.

couldhavebeenyou,

Riding the subsidized waves until the point of enshittification and then dumping it faster than a hot turd is what makes the shareholder cry

Korhaka,

I thought subscriptions were enshittification, you mean it gets even worse?

sugar_in_your_tea, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

The original article completely misrepresents the initiative:

We appreciate the passion of our community; however, the decision to discontinue online services is multi-faceted, never taken lightly and must be an option for companies when an online experience is no longer commercially viable. We understand that it can be disappointing for players but, when it does happen, the industry ensures that players are given fair notice of the prospective changes in compliance with local consumer protection laws.

Private servers are not always a viable alternative option for players as the protections we put in place to secure players’ data, remove illegal content, and combat unsafe community content would not exist and would leave rights holders liable. In addition, many titles are designed from the ground-up to be online-only; in effect, these proposals would curtail developer choice by making these video games prohibitively expensive to create.

Stop Killing Games is not trying to force companies to provide private servers or anything like that, but leave the game in a playable state after shutting off servers. This can mean:

  • provide alternatives to any online-only content
  • make the game P2P if it requires multiplayer (no server needed, each client is a server)
  • gracefully degrading the client experience when there’s no server

Of course, releasing server code is an option.

The expectation is:

  • if it’s a subscription game, I get access for whatever period I pay for
  • if it’s F2P, go nuts and break it whenever you want; there is the issue of I shame purchases, so that depends on how it’s advertised
  • if it’s a purchased game, it should still work after support ends

That didn’t restrict design decisions, it just places a requirement when the game is discontinued. If companies know this going in, they can plan ahead for their exit, just like we expect for mining companies (they’re expected to fill in holes and make it look nice once they’re done).

I argue Stop Killing Games doesn’t go far enough, and if it’s pissing off the games industry as well, then that means it strikes a good balance.

Natanael,

And “would leave rights holders liable” is completely false, no game would have offline modes if it did

lazynooblet,
@lazynooblet@lazysoci.al avatar

The argument there is if a game is left online with no studio to care for it then they believe they would be liable for community content.

I don’t think it applies to offline games at all.

Bravo, (edited )

If server code is released such that people can run private servers after the official servers are shut down, then legally the people running the servers should be the ones liable for illegal activity that happens on them.

I could imagine third-party companies springing up whose entire business model is JUST providing unofficial servers for discontinued games and moderating them. Maybe a subscription service that provides access to servers for several different online service games.

Of course, it would be more likely that it would be just a player who hosts a server for themselves and their friends and doesn’t attempt to be profitable. That would be fine too.

sugar_in_your_tea,

I could imagine third-party companies springing up whose entire business model is JUST providing unofficial servers for discontinued games and moderating them

That kind of already exists, you can buy hosting for Minecraft and other games. AFAIK, moderation isn’t a part of it, but many private groups exist that run public servers and manage their own moderation. It exists already, and that should absolutely be brought up as a bill is being considered.

Duamerthrax,

We have had that exact model for decades. Hosting companies use to and probably still offer rack space for arena shooters. The main company managed the master server, which was just a listing of IP addresses, but there were only ever a few official game servers with defaults loaded.

psud,

Minecraft has private servers (at least on Minecraft java) as well as their own server platform “Realms”, also every client is also a server. Though the authentication system is a Microsoft account so that’s likely to still be online well into the future

Natanael,

Only applicable if they run the servers themselves, not if they let others run their own servers.

Lv_InSaNe_vL,

I understood that from a IP and trademark stand point. It could be hard to retain your copyright or trademark if you are no longer controlling a product

sugar_in_your_tea,

They retain copyright based on existing law, and trademark is irrelevant since it’s defended in courts, not EULAs.

Natanael,

No, copyright isn’t relinquished from any of that (not even any effect on damages if you still require players to have bought the game to use the private servers), and trademarks wouldn’t be affected at all if you simply require that 3rd party servers are marked as unofficial

sugar_in_your_tea,

Exactly, and that also includes online games like Minecraft. Nobody is going to sue Microsoft because of what someone said or did in a private Minecraft server, though they might if it’s a Microsoft hosted one.

Railcar8095,

Stop Killing Games is not trying to force companies to provide private servers

I don’t think this is what they mean. They say that of they provide the tools for users to deploy the servers, bad things can happen. So I think they understood SKG, they just lie about the consequences for gamers

sugar_in_your_tea,

If that’s their argument, then the counterargument is simple: preserve the game another way. If hosting servers is dangerous, put the server code into the client and allow multiplayer w/ P2P tech, as had been done since the 90s (e.g. StarCraft).

What they seem to be doing is reframing the problem as requiring users to host servers, and arguing the various legal issues related to that. SKG just needs to clarify that there are multiple options here, and since devs know about the law at the start (SKG isn’t retroactive), studios can plan ahead.

It’s just a disingenuous argument trying to reframe the problem into cyber security and IP contexts, while neither has been an issue for other games in the past.

Railcar8095,

Yeah, I agree. We have been hosting servers at friend houses with consumer (mostly our own gaming PCs) forever.

The risk involved exists, but it’s far from the threat they make it be.

BlameTheAntifa,

Another part of it is that if they discontinue support, they can’t stop the community from creating their own server software.

There are so many ways to approach this. The point is ensuring consumers retain the right to keep using what they purchased, even if they have to support it themselves.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Sort of. They need to have the tools as well. So I suppose they could release the APIs for their servers before shutting down their servers so community servers can be created, that would probably be sufficient. But they need to do something beyond just saying, “we won’t sue you if you reverse engineer it.”

atro_city, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

Keep signing it! Don't stop!

naught, do games w Day 354 of posting a Daily Screenshot from the games I've been playing

This would’ve scared the shit out of me as a kid

Kolanaki, do games w Founder of Arkane Studios: "I think Gamepass is an unsustainable model that has been increasingly damaging the industry for a decade"; impacts sales
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

It stopped being just $1 and instantly became the worst thing ever. /s

chrislowles, (edited ) do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

We saw the depths a nepo baby from Blizzard would go for this initiative to fail, can’t imagine what could happen with a body comprised of people from the biggest worms in the industry (Epic, EA, Activision, Microsoft, Ubi et al.)

skisnow, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

“curtail developer choice” is such a weak argument because you could equally apply it to literally every piece of regulation ever passed. Of course it curtails choice, that’s almost the dictionary definition of an industry regulation.

EarMaster, do games w Founder of Arkane Studios: "I think Gamepass is an unsustainable model that has been increasingly damaging the industry for a decade"; impacts sales
@EarMaster@lemmy.world avatar

Is it as bad as the time Netflix killed the movie industry?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

The movie industry is plenty capable of killing itself.

bungle_in_the_jungle, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

Lol. We’re gamers. We know that if we encounter enemies we’re going in the right direction.

Railcar8095,

Still trying to find the right direction on animal crossing.

FooBarrington,

Towards the bees!

Gonzako,

paying your debts. The game breaks as it cannot speculate anymore on your debt

webghost0101, do gaming w Don't touch me with that stuff

They know to never use from your own supply. They know the downsides and admit openly that organics remain more reliable.

The one ripper i recall that did have chrome only did because she was attacked by a customer who chopped of her arm.

catsarebadpeople, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact
@catsarebadpeople@sh.itjust.works avatar

Good. Your choices are bad

Kolanaki, do games w The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

Fuck developer choice! What about my choice as a consumer?

sirico,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

That’s easy have some self control and only buy games that respect you

sugar_in_your_tea,

True. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t attack predatory behavior when we see it. If they want to sell me something, I need to own it, and that means I get to use it after they’ve stopped supporting it.

MimicJar,
@MimicJar@lemmy.world avatar

When I pay to see a film in a theater, I don’t own the film. I don’t get to watch the film again after it leaves the theater.

While I pay to see a concert, a play, or a musical, I don’t own those performances. I don’t get to see them again. They generally aren’t recorded (Although that is changing in some limited cases.)

I do think a game dying is terrible and I do think games should be clearly labeled (so people can make an education decision if they want to rent the game).

burntbacon,

This isn’t paying to see a concert, play, or musical. This is buying a book for amazon’s e-reader, and them not allowing you to read the book anymore when they put out the book’s sequel.

spankmonkey,
@spankmonkey@lemmy.world avatar

Or buying a physical book where they printed it with ink that fades after 2 years so it is no longer readable.

vaultdweller013,

Fun fact a company did this with DVDs back in the day, once you broke the seal on it the air would react with a coating on the disk which would become increasingly dark until it became unreadable.

MimicJar,
@MimicJar@lemmy.world avatar

But you are not buying a game, you are renting it.

I absolutely agree that companies shouldn’t be able to say they’re selling you a game. They should make it 100% clear that you are renting it.

I’m also onboard with requiring p2p/LAN functionality for multiplayer.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Sure, you’re paying for a performance when you watch a film or play at a theater. If I pay to watch a video game tournament, I’m likewise paying for a performance, not the game.

When you buy a film (DVD, Bluray, or Digital Copy) or a recording of a play performance, you own that copy and can watch it as often as you want for as many years into the future as you want. What we’re saying is that video games should work the same way, if I buy a game, I should be able to play it whenever I want at any point in the future. That’s it, it’s the same thing as with a film.

psud,

I don’t know how you could do that without staying exclusively on open source

I’m old enough that the games I’m nostalgic for are on floppy discs on my shelf, but now the games I play are downloaded and rely on whatever company keeping a server up to authenticate me

Who knows what Microsoft will do with Minecraft in 30 years

Who knows what Steam will do with the licences it’s sold me

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