The kinds of people that claim “wokism” in games tend to also not actually play the games they’re bitching about, so they don’t actually know what to expect.
Awhile ago my partner and I discovered there’s a combined work “Woke Advisory List” of videogames compiled by these backwards grognards. It roughly places games into categories of “Do not play, tis too woke” and “mild Trigger warning - has woke elements”
There is no small matter of quality of game that seems to influence which category the game is put in. Generally blah games with like a non sexy female protagonist and a single gay person randomly existing as a character you optionally meet might classify as “Holy shit! Too woke too WOKE!”… But then LIFE IS STRANGE is only categorized with the mildest of warnings of “some gay themes”… Like bro… “some” ?
It is equal parts hilarious and disheartening to go through and look at all the shit they decry as woke collated in one place and to recognize what counts as “exceptions” because they cannot bring themselves to cast games they love onto the burn pile.
It’s not just that they don’t want to put games they love into the pile. Their whole idiology is based on woke games failing. If a game is successful and “woke” then their idiology must be wrong. They will never admit to this being the case, so instead the game must not be that “woke” after all.
My thought was that Geralt and Ciri’s stories were over or decided, and I’m disappointed they didn’t find a way to do a Witcher story either in the future or past that enabled you to pick your own gender, appearance, Witcher school, or whatever else, maybe with creative use of the trial of the grasses or something.
I’ll happily play as Ciri to revisit the universe and maybe some familiar characters, but I just wish they’d done something newer or more original.
Beyond bored of both sides hijacking games for their identity me so specia outlooks. Get a personally FFS. Oh no she’s a bit hench for a woman. She’s been training and killing monsters most her life. On no people mad because woman in game. literally wgaf Geralt was awesome but the arc has ended for now nice and naturally.
If you read the books you’d be pretty excited about Ciri being the protagonist as in the books she just goes off into the sunset whereas now we get to see her return pick up the mantle and possibly get some new settings in France and England.
In general English usage I think you may be right.
In the world of “The Witcher” (which is translated from Polish) there are both male and female mages with inborn abilities. Sometimes they are called sorcerers and sorceresses, sometimes they are called mages, sometimes they are called something related to their specialisation of magic, and sometimes wise women who do magic but didn’t go to the academy are called witches.
Witchers, however, are not mages. They are made from ordinary humans and are gene manipulated and highly trained to be monster hunters. They have some witcher powers that are related to runes, and they make potions that have side effects only they can survive thanks to their manipulated bodies. Witchers at birth do not have special potential. Though a lot of little witcher trainees die, so you could argue they are artificially selected in that way.
Ciri is kind of neither of those, but she has special abilities related to space and time manipulation. In the new trailer it seems she drinks a witcher potion, but from what we know she never underwent the manipulation that witchers did.
Could be that she used her space time powers to find a more stable version. Or who knows all the crossovers could be canon and she grabbed some bullshit from monster hunter or some shit.
She might have done the trials with another school. In the trailer, she is wearing a feline witcher medallion, not a wolf one. I don’t think the lore ever mentions the School of the Cat having their mutagens destroyed.
Im not really into the lore, more of a Warhammer fantasy guy I was just making a guess based off of the sheer number of crossovers. Seriously that shit is absurd, its like a reverse Scooby-Doo.
I’m not too far into the lore either, but the Witcher audiobooks jsut happened to be up next in my listening queue, so I guess I’ll find out about all that pretty soon.
The Wolf school had it’s mutagens destroyed, yes. But in the trailer, it appears Ciri is wearing a feline medallion, implying that she is somehow affiliated with the School of the Cat now.
IIRC, the original polish “witcher” was made by taking word for “witch” and changing the grammatical gender to be masculine. Evidently this was not an existing word meaning “male witch”, and so was better translated as “witcher” (ie a made up word clearly derived from “witch”) instead of “witch” or “wizard”.
I haven’t seen a single complaint about Ciri being the protagonist of the next witcher game andI believe it’s because she isn’t a “let’s put a woman here for the quotas” type of character.
Is it here, or on the internet as a whole? I have already seen a TON of vitriol in the trailer’s comments on YouTube. They’re loudly skreeeing woke, and DEI, and even the less insane ones are “so disappointed in CDPR.”
EDIT - I spoke too soon, they’re even here in this very post.
Currently I split my time a bit on reddit and Lemmy, but at this point I don’t even bother with their gaming communities. Lemmy is miles better in that regard imo as far as discussions go.
Really? Can you share them? I saw the post on lemmy complaining about wanting male/female options, but there’s also this article with gems such as below.
actually pretty good analogy. like, whole generations of fucked up men come from the idea that if you just give up on the bad ones they disappear and nothing will come of it
That doesn’t really work though… You could say the same thing about any demographic, and it would be correctly called out as racist/sexist/homophobic/etc
It Takes Two. I thought the game would be over about four times, but then it kept adding even more mechanics and got HARD. I thought it would be super casual, did not expect that much length and depth to it (ignoring the cheesy story 😅)
Beyond The Edge of Owlsgarde. No spoilers, but despite playing it for plenty of hours (don’t have an exact count), I felt it was short. Pretty cool enough of a modern point and click adventure game, though.
(Lore nerd rant ahead, tl;dr: Ciri being the protag is 100% fine and I expected it but her being a full witcher is weird)
There’s exactly one somewhat valid complaint to be had here, and it’s that Ciri in the books explicitly didn’t go through the Trial of the Grasses (aka one of the main mutation processes that makes you a witcher or, as it often happens, just straight up kills you), so idk how they’ll justify her being able to use witcher potions and stuff now. And (also in the books) she has lost her access to magic at one point, so using witcher signs is strange too.
I can see her wanting to take the plunge and go through with the trials, but I’m also certain that Geralt wouldn’t want that for her bc of how much it fucks you up + most of the secrets of the trials have been lost.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and wait and see what explanation they come up with for her being a full witcher, but it better be good.
So, from lore perspective, I have no objections to her being the protag but I don’t love her being a full witcher. I liked what they did with her gameplay sections in W3, I hoped they’d have just expanded on that gameplay idea more.
She’s wearing a feline medallion in the trailer, so it stands to reason she’s affiliated with the School of the Cat now. She probably went through their trials. And apparently CDPR has stated she is indeed a full witcher now.
I agree it seems a little shoe-horned to make her a classical witcher. I hope it’s not just to give her the title, because she could easily be the protagonist, and/or have the job of being a witcher without the trial of the grasses. She was given the training and education of a witcher, and has magical powers of her own already. Receiving the trials would be a huge deal, narratively, to the characters, and to world building. I could easily see this being a fumbled corporate attempt at placating fans that wanted to see geralt, without any regard for the characters or world building. (Similar to “Rey Skywalker” having absolutely no business being a Skywalker). But that’s all speculation. If it’s treated as a major plot point, and not done just for the hell of it, it could still be good.
Yeah, exactly! I’m not married to the lore to the degree that I won’t give the devs a chance to explain how this came to be, but I’m worried it’s going to just be a cheap “well we needed to keep the signs and the potions as mechanics but Geralt is retired, fuck it, let’s say they found instructions on how to safely make more witchers in Vesemir’s cupboard somewhere.”
Yeah I’m not sure what her becoming a witcher adds to her story. She already has a lot going for her. Now if she became a badass witch like Granny weatherwax that’s the left turn I want to see.
Ciri used headology: The bandit lies down questioning how exactly disappointed his mother will be in him when ciri gets back from the coven.
No no you see it is because I have dedicated the last 20 years of my life to Witcher lore and have memorized not only every line but every plot in the series and books, and you see, Ciri is supposed to be much [choice: less/more] powerful than this trailer makes her appear! I’m boycotting this game and recommend everyone else does too! I’m tired of them shitting on lore with woke propaganda!
Add Naughty Dog’s “Intergalactic” to the pile: The protagonist is female and a PoC! The usual suspects are already frothing at the mouth and recording a bajillion outrage bait videos for their Youtube channels.
I dislike when space games have loose hair on characters. All hair should probably be cut short or tied up if you’re making a game in space. Bald makes a lot of sense for this reason, especially since even short hair you’d ideally have physics in it floating around (assuming it has zero-g stuff or anything like that).
For me it’s not that I hate ciri at all. I completely understand women’s complaint that most games have a male protagonist and they can’t relate to that. I feel the same way, I like to feel at least somewhat immersed and I can never really get that with a female protagonist. It’s not like I don’t try either, I just never end up getting into the games I have tried that are like this.
I know it’s hard when the story is based on an individual, but I just wish more games had an option so everyone could play who they want to. I don’t hate them for this choice, it will just be another game that “isn’t for me” in the same way a hyper competitive PVP game “isn’t for me” which is fine.
Exactly lol, it has nothing to do with some weird gender thing. It’s a role playing game. You’re playing as a role. Even in Skyrim the role you’re playing (even if you choose a white male human) is someone living in Skyrim, a fictional place fighting dragons and draugr. So I think gender is one of the smallest differences.
God forbid you play a different perspective and see what it’s like.
Female V in cyberpunk is one of the best gaming experiences. You feel being catcalled and hit on directly - and you beat the ever loving shit out of them for doing it.
Ha, one of the first times I saw someone playing as a woman (in third person) I asked why and he joked and said “dude why would I want to stare at a man’s ass for 60 hours?”. Not a bad argument tbh…
I think he means he thinks women have trouble identifying to male protagonists as he has trouble identifying to female protagonists. If it was a male it’s ok because he’s a male (he can relate to).
He’s conflating women “can’t get behind a male protagonist” with women “who want more representation” and using it as his excuse. I think most gamers don’t care, and don’t think we should always have the choice. The only people who will hate this choice is people who already wanted to hate on women to begin with.
Which to that I’d say women have been able to “get behind male protagonists” for decades now.
I think choice is fun, for some games, but some games like the Witcher tell a specific narrative, and it makes sense that they are tailored for a specific character, and I think we all know the sort of abuse that Ciri is going to see in the world of the Witcher.
I think of any gender has trouble “identifying” with a character of another gender that’s 100% a them issue, they need to figure out why they have such a problem with it, because that says more about them then it does game makers. (I know not you, the original person).
Seriously all it says to me is that you’re insecure with yourself if you can’t even play a fictional fantasy game as a woman.
Definitely. It is probably in part cultural indoctrination teaching that women are weak & such. And they don’t want to feel weak. Many of my favorite games have women protagonists.
Pretty much, yeah. Part of it is the whole “power fantasy” thing. I get, as others said, that it’s a fantasy world so how could you expect to be immersed with mutants and whatever, but that’s not the point. I don’t expect it to be a VR experience where I can’t even tell I’m not in the real world, and as others assumed no for fucks sake it has nothing to do with hating women. That’s absurd. It’s just a personal preference thing. I’m not going to write to the devs bitching or make some stupid “woke game” post, I just probably won’t play it.
Is it really like that for you? Does the same thing happen with books, movies, TV? Should they have an “option”?
I have absolutely no trouble immersing myself into Aloy, Lara Croft, Jesse (Control), Red (Transistor), Bayonetta, Faith (Mirror’s Edge), and others.
Like, the character not being the same gender as me, doesn’t even register as an obstacle for inhabiting them. I’m able to mentally become them in literally the exact same way I do any other protagonist.
Since, it’s not like I need to be the same as someone in order to see the world through their perspective.
The opposite, the less they are like me, the greater the chance I’ll get to experience something from outside my own lived experience. And I like that.
I’m with women in that they should have representation in games (and stories in general), but even just for myself I’m cheering this particular progression on for the sheer variety it brings.
Is it really like that for you? Does the same thing happen with books, movies, TV? Should they have an “option”?
It is like that for me and they don’t need to have that option, that’s unrealistic to expect. You can’t choose anything in a book or movie. It just becomes something that “isn’t for me” which is fine. Not everything has to be my taste. I was simply explaining why it had nothing to do with hating ciri for some people.
One of the best things about art is it can help to share what others experience; it gives us an opportunity to “walk in someone else’s shoes”. I think this can lead to more empathy in a world sorely lacking in it.
I don’t get you at all but fair fucks to you being civil about the matter. You got a lot of hate on here while simply stating a preference that you unfortunately share with a bunch of incel neckbeards.
I’m the other way, interestingly. I like playing a woman as a protagonist. Not because I’ll lust over them or anything, it’s simply more enjoyable.
I appreciate that. I just see it as the typical “people love to attack others online” and I have no desire to try to insult people even if they’re telling me liking chocolate over vanilla is wrong and I’m an asshole for it lol only I know myself, and I know there’s no hatred or misogyny behind my preferences.
Many Mass Effect players reported that FemShep was the better way to play the game. Many guys play female avatars in games because the cosmetic choices are usually more interesting. This actually came up in a study on MMORPG players many years ago, and I imagine it is still true today.
So it’s not the magical powers, physical abilities, sexual magnatism, combat prowess, charisma, or anything else that Garalt has that you don’t that throws you off? It’s only that he has the body shape of a man that allows you to be immersed? If you played Garalt, but the body was modded into that of a female character, you’d lose your immersion, even though it’s damn near equally unlike you as a person as before?
I can’t understand hating Ciri as a chracter, but I can understand being kind of a disappointed not having Geralt as a playable character.
If you consider it as an isolated game it doesn’t matter, but when you play three games as one character and then suddenly switch to another character it can feel kind of melancholic, in absence of a better word. Especially since now there’s a non-zero chance that they’ll kill Geralt in the new game.
But anyway, Ciri was an interesting character and those parts in Witcher 3 where you played as her were great.
and then suddenly switch to another character it can feel kind of melancholic
Its not that sudden, Ciri was playable in Witcher 3 at times and the ending that has to be canon for her to be the W4 Protag leaves Geralt alive and old, and if you count B&W the owner of a vineyard where he can chill with his girl of choice, so they don’t even need to kill him off
“He’s old and hangs out in Toussaint now, he sends Ciri letters” would be easy to do
Well obviously Geralt survives in the end of witcher 3 and most likely will be alive in 4, but what I meant is that they might kill him in the new game like they did with Vesemir in Witcher 3. They don’t need to, and I hope they don’t, but it would be kind of an easy plot device so there’s a chance. But at this point it’s just speculation anyway.
My main point was more in line that some people just don’t like change and that would be enough to make them oppose Ciri as the main character.
I heard somewhere that I think CDPR said even that ending there is a way Garalt could still survive. I don’t remember what the ending is, but also it doesn’t really matter because they can do what they want with him.
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