startrek.website

guyrocket, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.
@guyrocket@kbin.social avatar

I remember when they started talking about "photo realistic" graphics...whatever that actually means.

Shurimal,

In flight sim world "photo realistic" meant actual aerophotos as textures for the ground.

Looked passable...

...From 30000 ft altitude. From 1000 ft it was laughably horrible🙃

ThatWeirdGuy1001, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

Tbf these games were made with crtvs in mind and crtvs blurred the edges making things look smoother. They only look so blocky nowadays because newer tvs have better resolution so you can clearly see all the blocky edges.

Ottomateeverything,

I have never in my life seen someone refer to CRT TVs as crtvs and it’s really fucking with my head lmao

ThatWeirdGuy1001,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a habit I picked up from my dad lol

He always called them crtvs because he thought the “tube” part of cathode ray tube was unnecessary when using the acronym. You know it’s a tube because what else would a cathode ray be in?

otp,

I liked it better when I thought it meant Cathode Ray TubaVision

ThirdWorldOrder,

I like it. Gonna use the one other time this possibly comes up in my lifetime.

Madrigal,

Cathode Ray TubieVision

Aceticon,

Good name for an android porn site!

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar
MonkderZweite,

Emulators have filters for that, though.

Btw, is there something similiar for wine? Not vkbasalt, because dxvk can create issues with too big address space in older games.

UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT,

I think it depends… Definitely with 2d games, but for instance, the heads and fists in Goldeneye (N64) always looked blocky

frezik,

Playstation textures used a lot of dithering. Composite connections blurred them out, but they look awful on modern displays.

frezik,

Composite connections more than CRTs. An RGB SCART connection reveals so many sins.

DemBoSain, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.
@DemBoSain@midwest.social avatar

Unreal on a Voodoo3 had fucking reflections on the walkway, and I watched that damn intro over and over.

Shurimal,

1999 Aliens vs. Predaror had:

  • actual 3D waves. The mesh for the water surface was actually transformed and reacted to your character moving through it creating waves—you could slosh the whole small pools around by running around in them. No shader trickery there.
  • explosion fireballs that were 3D and freaking reacted to the environment. Throw a grenade on the floor, the fireball is hemispherical. Throw in into a ventilation shaft, you get a pillar of fire shooting out from the opening. It was absolutely mind-blowing!
  • physics engine that allowed physics-enabled objects to be thrown around, bouncing from the walls etc. In 1999. Bizarrely, the objects couldn't rotate so they always retained the same orientation. It saw use in level design where you could destroy the supports of some stone blocks and let them fall down to block some large pipes.
  • flame thrower flame reflected from the walls. You could shoot around a corner or set yourself on fire in confined spaces with it.
  • no apparent limit for texture resolution. I remember people modding it with 1k and 2k textures (originals were like 64x64 or 128x128). In 2002.
bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

And today we need ray tracing to mimic fraction of that power

DemBoSain,
@DemBoSain@midwest.social avatar

I’m sure there was some trickery going on behind the scenes, and it wasn’t a true reflection.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, it was cubemaps and with mirrors it was exact same rooms with npc copying your moves, but it looked really good, and no need for rt hardware when we got same picture, remember half life 2 reflections and light, nowadays when AAA game dev make game with such graphics it requires ray tracing and dlss to run properly

jj4211,

While true for straight up reflection and glass the raytracing doesn’t do much despite being much more expensive, it is just jaw dropping to see refraction and indirect lighting. Before to have indirect lighting be vaguely credible it had to be all fixed and baked into the textures. Now we can do that with destructible stuff and moving light sources.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

You’re absolutely right, but nobody would use ray tracing with destructible stuff because nobody makes destructible stuff like in red faction nowadays

Drusas, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.

I never thought they looked anything like realistic back then, but I did think that they looked beautiful.

comrade19, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.

For me it was the water in farcry 1

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Water in morrowind and alien vs predator 1999

Jiggle_Physics, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.

Didn’t get the “graphics can’t get any better” idea, however, when Quake came out, and we turned on GL graphics, it really hit me that eventually graphics could, eventually, be actually realistic. Like, it is hard to explain to people born after this era the INSANE leap forward Quake was.

MudMan, (edited )
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Oh, man, I'm about to relitigate an almost 30 year old nerd argument. Here we go.

I thought Quake looked like crap.

It's brown, and blocky and chunky and in software mode at 320x200 it's barely putting together a readable, coherent picture at all. Compared to what the peak of legacy tech was at the time, which was probably Duke Nukem 3D, I thought it was a genuine step backwards.

Now, it played well, it was fast and they got a ton of mileage out of the real 3D geometry to make crazy and cool level designs. But visually? Hot garbage.

You're right that the game changer was actually 3D acceleration, and Quake did come to life when it started hitting HD resolutions of 480p or (gasp) 800p, comparable to what we were already getting in Build engine games and 2D PC games elsewhere, but the underlying assets are still very, VERY ugly. To me it all came together in Quake 2, which was clearly built for the hardware. That's when I went "well, I need one of these cards now" and went to get a Nvidia Riva.

I have no complaints about Quake's sound design, though. I can hear it in my head right now. No music, just sound effects. I don't know what that shotgun sound is taken from, but it's definitely not a shotgun and it sounds absolutely amazing.

Oh, and on the original point, I'm not super sure of "graphics can't get any better" beign a thing that I thought, but I do remember when somebody showed me a PS2 screenshot of Silent Hill 2 gameplay in a magazine I mocked them for clearly having mistaken a prerendered cutscene for real time graphics. Good times.

HakFoo,

I will agree with you. Quake came out and really stretched the hardware of the time.

I can remember timedemos on a 486/80-- a slow machine for the time, but one that would not be absurd for an ordinary home user- and it was pulling less than 1 frame per second, on a machine where Heretic was playable and had a richer, more exciting world. I could see, yes, the enemies are actually made of polygons instead of scaling sprites, but you gave up so much else for it.

I wonder if multiplayer, even more than the “true 3D” is what gave it the sticking power. The lack of story and olive drab level design didn’t matter there as much.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

I think long term, absolutely. At the time, though, very few people were playing online, and a lot of the praise heaped on Quake was for the single player game and the visuals, which I never got.

I mean, I was on a Pentium 133, so I could play it pretty much as intended, I just thought it looked ugly. At that point in software mode I didn't find it looked any better than Magic Carpet, which had stuff like animated waves and water reflections, and you could make a 3D volcano come out of the ground in real time. It's pretty nuts how far the 3D characters took it.

Side note: Magic Carpet is a technological marvel and we don't talk about it enough. Peak non-accelerated 3D environments ever, right there.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

I looked up magic carpet and dayum it has fire physics, even now not all AAA games have that

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Large scale terrain deformation and morphing in real time, procedural fire and magma, gravity physics for objects on slopes and, again, animated, reflective 3D water. All running on software with support for a high resolution mode.

The year before the PlayStation 1 launched.

It is a miracle of dark magic and computer science and I don't understand how it can possibly exist. That game is the reason every time Peter Molyneux came up with some random, obviously impossible garbage everybody went "alright, but maybe?"

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely this, half a hour ago I’ve seen this game for the first time in my life on YouTube and thinked for myself, is it real? I mean castle appearing out of nowhere is alright, it is possible with that time tech, but red faction like destruction and fire and magma physics and water looking like it was made with shaders, oh my god i was shocked, and without need for gpu on hardware of that time? They made impossible possible

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

Gamecube resident evil 2002 graphics outpace some AAA games even today

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

It doesn't, honestly, but man, at the time a CRT sure did wonders to blend the pre-rendered backgrounds and a lot of the places where stuff came up short. It really did look great.

bruhduh,
@bruhduh@lemmy.world avatar

That’s what I’m talking about, small resolution of crt made it look great www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-9Rw5CJNE

TSG_Asmodeus,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

I appreciate what you’re getting at, but I also think you forget how grey Duke 3d was.

I agree Quake was too brown and grey, but the idea it was ‘visually hot garbage’ is definitely an outside take. We finally had 3d models that weren’t sprites, not to mention how impressive prerendered Lightmaps were for the time.

I will agree that GLQuake was when the graphics really were at their best.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Man, that's more like it, I was starting to get weirded out by how little pushback I was getting. And the two of you pushing back are being super civil, even. I guess this conversation has lost a lot of its edge now the games are 30 years old and we're no longer in school.

Anyway, it does feel like you're cherrypicking a little bit there. I mean, sure, there's plenty of grey textures in Dule Nukem, but even if you turn around from that spot you mention the entrance to the cinema is full of reds and yellows, the cop pigs are wearing bright blue and once you get inside the theatre it's all red curtains and colourful posters. There is surprisingly little in terms of good screenshots or video of software Quake as it was for a legit comparison, and even when I took one it got mushed and compressed to crap, but hey, that version is an extra on the GOG version of Quake, go check it out, it's an eye openener.

I don't disagree that Quake was done the "hard way", and the lighting effects and 3d models were technically impressive at the time, what I'm saying here is the picture they put together with it was not as appealing.

Jiggle_Physics, (edited )

I totally disagree. I liked the design of quake a lot more than duke nukem. I liked the dark, dungeonesque aesthetic, and, even without GL particle physics, thought it was much better looking than it’s predecessors. It was designed to look like huge temples to eldritch gods and it nailed that.

Quake2 was a big improvement in PvP, however I think it had a lot of the same blockiness, the gibb was less impressive, and it suffered a lot of the same issues with color, just instead of brown/black/green/red, it was grey/green/yellow/red. Sure the polygons were smaller, and more numerous, time, and tech, had advanced. However it wasn’t a huge improvement. I also preferred the sound design of the first, and not just the musical sound track, Quake 1 was much more eerie. It really wasn’t until Q3 Arena that the color palate really opened up.

Previous games looked like cardboard cut outs with higher quality pictures glued to them, in a world of plywood covered covered frames also with images glued to them. Quake was like mannequins passing though a brutalist architecture mock-up.

However, 1996 I had and ATI Rage GPU. In 1997 I upgraded to a pent2 mmx with a voodoo that had a secondary 2d card supporting it. So I may have had a different experience.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

I don't think Q2 had nearly as many issues with color as a whole through the game. I mean, it wasn't the most colourful game either on any given screenshot, but it had more biomes and locations. At the very least they learned how to make outdoors look like outdoors, with the bright red skies contrasting with the grey interiors. Later on they even throw a bunch of green lights around when they're feeling frisky.

You're not wrong that Id only stopped making brown games in Quake 3, which if anything is a bit too garish sometimes. I also don't disagree about your description of early shooters, all I'm saying is that people had been getting good at using that cardboard cutout tech and people had gotten good at parsing it. Moving to full 3D required a few steps backwards to then push the tech back past that point, and Quake 1 was a big muddy mess of a game. If you were able to read brutalist eldrich temples as opposed to sand-colored legos that's fair, but even with all the flashy new tech it never read like that to me at the time.

PeterLossGeorgeWall,

Fyi, quakes’ music and sound effects were made by Trent Reznor (nine inche nails). There were definitely nin logos in Quake 2. He described the “music” not as music but ambient sounds to make things creepy but also contributed the sound effects, presumably for the shotgun also.

MudMan,
@MudMan@kbin.social avatar

Really? I hadn't heard about that extremely prominent aspect of the game's development and marketing for thirty years. You don't happen to have any shocking news about the origins of Super Mario Bros. 2 by any chance, do you?

Alright, alright, I'll tone down the snark, it's just... yeah, that reads a certain way.

But also yeah, he kinda killed it. The Q2 soundtrack in particular has been in my music players longer than some European countries have existed.

PeterLossGeorgeWall,

I jest you not! I was a nin fan before ever playing the game so I was tuned in when I first saw the logos in game. I think if you go back and play even the first level of Q2 you’ll see them. He did 1 also but I’m not sure there were logos in that. It’s even listed on the Wikipedia site if that confirms that I’m not full of crap.

Lemmeenym, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.

That was Killer Instinct for me.

images.app.goo.gl/zCwdkzufsNTRqR4k8

breckenedge, do gaming w I truly don't know how to explain this to anyone who wasn't around then without them thinking we were out of our minds.

The moment GMan’s mouth fucking moved in Half Life when he talked. 🤯

Misconduct,

I still remember the first time a character’s feet lined up when they walked up stairs. Couldn’t believe it lol. I wish I could remember what game it was but it was SO long ago. I do remember later being similarly impressed by MGS2 stairs

DangedIfYouDid,

The weather effects and condensation on Samus’s visor in Metroid Prime had this same feeling. It’s been quite a while since such minor graphical details in a game held me in such awe.

UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT,

Going back even farther I remember my mind being blown when the rain in Ninja Gaiden on nes changed directions

AngryCommieKender, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.

Who among you hasn’t told your construction bots to stick an entire base into chests?

Krudler, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.

If you would take that daisy out of your inventory you could fit that full plate armor set.

starman2112, do gaming w With all the remakes, they're adding up quickly.
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Ok but can you name 30 games that you’ve beaten all from separate series? Because I actually couldn’t

otp,
  1. Pokemon Blue
  2. Final Fantasy 7
  3. Star Control 2 (UQM)
  4. Super Mario World
  5. Donkey Kong Country 2
  6. Kirby’s Adventure
  7. The Legend of Zelda
  8. Earthbound
  9. Fire Emblem
  10. Rock Band
  11. Guitar Hero
  12. Katamari Damacy
  13. Trails in the Sky
  14. Oddworld: Abe’s Oddysee
  15. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
  16. Bug Fables
  17. Borderlands 2
  18. GTA3
  19. Illbleed
  20. Gex
  21. Return Fire
  22. StarCraft
  23. Streets of Rage 2
  24. Street Fighter 2
  25. Heavy Rain
  26. Beyond Two Souls
  27. Golden Sun
  28. Shining in the Darkness
  29. Chrono Trigger
  30. Persona 5

That was actually pretty tough! I tried to avoid “related” series too (like 2D vs. 3D Mario, Mario vs. Yoshi, etc.)

ColeSloth,

You smell 35 to 45 years old.

Zanderlus,
  1. Baldur’s Gate 3
  2. Hades
  3. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
  4. Bioshock
  5. Hypnospace Outlaw
  6. Dead Rising
  7. Disco Elysium
  8. Prey
  9. Dishonored
  10. Borderlands
  11. Final Fantasy VIII
  12. Mass Effect
  13. Half-Life 2
  14. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
  15. Red Faction
  16. Psychonauts
  17. Spelunky
  18. Primordia
  19. Strangeland
  20. Alan Wake
  21. Telltale’s The Walking Dead
  22. F.E.A.R.
  23. Heavy Rain
  24. Dragon Age: Origins
  25. Jade Empire
  26. Fire Emblem: Awakening
  27. Life Is Strange
  28. The Longest Journey
  29. Metro 2033
  30. The Punisher

And I could keep going because I’ve spent far too much time playing video games

PotatoKat, (edited )
  1. Metal gear solid
  2. Dragon ball Z Budokai 3
  3. Disco elysium
  4. Far cry 3
  5. Assassin’s creed 2
  6. Spider-Man
  7. Littlebigplanet
  8. Bioshock
  9. Dark souls
  10. Star Wars Jedi Academy
  11. Batman Arkham
  12. Call of Duty Black Ope
  13. Super Mario Bros 3
  14. Zelda BOTW
  15. Gears of war 2
  16. Uncharted 2
  17. The last of us
  18. Kameo
  19. Mega Man 2
  20. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade
  21. Hotline Miami
  22. Gravity Rush
  23. Persona 4 golden
  24. Tomb Raider
  25. Crash Bandicoot 3: warped
  26. Spyro year of the dragon
  27. Pokémon red
  28. Zero Escape Virtue’s Last Reward
  29. Fallout 3
  30. Devil may cry
  31. Lego ___
  32. Resident Evil
  33. Tell Tale’s Walking dead
  34. Wolf among us
  35. Fable 2
  36. Tales from the Borderlands
  37. Mortal Kombat
  38. Injustice
  39. Infamous
  40. God of War (2018)
  41. Journey
  42. Dying light
  43. Dead island 2
  44. Hitman
  45. Saints Row 2
  46. Enter the matrix
  47. Superman returns
  48. Kingdom hearts
  49. Portal
  50. X-men Origins
Siethron, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.

Bg3 is doing this to me right now.

I don’t trust any of the companions to hold onto stuff.

MilitantAtheist, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.

Suka blyat, this is me, time to buy more cases.

FrostyCaveman, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.

is this a mfing tarot meme? Lmao

reev,

I almost died, we need more of these

Speculater, do gaming w I'm a hoarder. I can't help my nature.
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

cries in pixel dungeon

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