Worst part is, it seems like it’s still up on the platform for purchase. They legitimately do not care. It’s funny though that they decided to ban one developer and their games because the person was being openly transphobic, so it seems like they’re trying to make people think they care, despite not actually caring.
Sort of like every business and corporation that has a booth at Pridefest. Many of them are hostile to the LGBTQ+ community, yet they’re at Pridefest just for the PR.
Yeah, sort of. Though they’re a bit more honest since they don’t even pretend to care about us. Probably hoping that if they stay quiet long enough the problem will go away and won’t hurt them.
To be fair, Discord has been feeling the heat for a while, on multiple fronts and for multiple reasons. Not the least of which was a dumbass leaking classified information to his teenage buddies.
If there's one thing I hate about Steam, it's their lack of moderation. There's Nazi shit everywhere, every game who's using "woke" elements like neutral terms for body types or giving people the choice of their pronoun, or having gay characters, or people of color, or women in positions of power, etc. etc. gets the inevitable flood of constant woke crying threads, comments & review bombing. There's many people who glorify the RuZZian invasion of Ukraine as well through their profiles, while I could not even have a freaking avatar depicting a person dangling from a tree, which was graphically maybe a small step ahead of a stick figure from a hangman game. And even outside of politics it's full of trolls and clown farmers (they should really remove that one anyway). You ask for technical help, and everyone tells you basic shit or attacks you. It's a cesspool.
Agreed, they really need to step it up when it comes to moderation of this type of content, including giving out permanent bans to people who make threats or harass others. Most people get a slap on the wrist if anything. I was literally harassed the last time I logged in to steam because the people I knew before knew me as a boy and I come back as a girl (I’m transfem) and they really didn’t like that, ended up calling me a groomer and the t-slur. Awful experience, even though I reported it Valve did absolutely nothing about it.
Crunchyroll removed their comments section recently. They said it was because of all the hateful comments for one show. Sony just didn’t want to deal with it, so gone, which is a real shame. If the comments are not part of the product being sold, then they will end up getting dropped if abused.
Not to excuse any hate speech of any kind, but looking around at social media and the effect it has especially on young people and saying “steam forums are the problem” seems like missing the forest for the trees
Me. There’s just an irony in pointing out the failure of Steam to effectively moderate (true) when Twitter has a much larger footprint, seems to be actively encouraging hate speech not just tolerating it, and is being rewardered for such behavior. The article points this out too:
There’s an aspect of irony to the complaint: Elon Musk turned Twitter into a haven for racism and far-right rhetoric, after all, and he’s being rewarded with a high seat in the incoming US government.
Senators only have so much time to pick and choose which issues to raise awareness about, so Steam seems like a weird fight to pick given the wider landscape ¯_(ツ)_/¯ . Could just be there’s a much higher chance of getting an actual change from Steam than a larger social media platform.
Worth mentioning that the main US senator supporting this, Mark Warner, received substantial donations from Disney, which also poured 1.5 billion (with a B) dollars into Epic Games.
Wouldn’t be surprised if some bigwig at Disney pushed for this investigation, too, especially given how fucking flimsy the results were (55% of all hate symbols were fucking pepe the frog).
I feel like the kinds of people who assume every pepe is a symbol of hate are very similar to the kinds of people who assume that all metalheads are satanic. Some are, and some aren’t. It’s an overly reductionist view.
Man, I love frogs. The alt-right can’t take Pepe away from us.
Not only that, even the ADL try as they might can’t really make that claim with their chests. They qualify that pepe edits exist that have antisemitic connotations, which is true of literally any of the 4chan template meme characters.
There’s nazi trollfaces, nazi wojacks, nazi chads, you can’t use that as a reason to call pepe an antisemitic dogwhistle.
If you follow the links, they refer to copy pasta’s of hatefull stuff including swastikas but no breakdown of what is counted, the use of the happy merchant (a meme with an antisemitic origin used to convey greed) and the use of pepe the frog in profile pics (pepe is a symbol of hate according to the ADL).
The issue I have with the whole here is that I don’t subscribe to the premise on which the analysis is based.
IF you assume pepe is a hate symbol, then each case it is used is an expression of hate and furtherance of that hate. I however reject the premise that pepe is a symbol of hate.
The use of the happy merchant is a bit more of a problem, because I see the antisemitic message it has. However I also see a lot of stupid people that don’t… and have seen the image used (probably in antisemitic context referring to greed) but people associate it with greed primarily… so this one is an issue, I think I refuse part of the premise, namely that the antisemitism part is a dominant factor when the image is used.
These are the 2 main examples, a lot more in the report that have similar caveats.
Pepe to me seems like the opposite of the Confederate flag.
Pepe is an internet meme that is in some cases used by racist and hateful people to carry their message, but the primary function is internet nonsense.
The Confederate flag is a symbol or hate and oppression that in some situations is used to express country & westerns ideals of freedom and roaming the country with not a care in the world… without the racist subtext… however you cannot deny the basis of its use and thus should not use it.
Some cases is an understatement. Ever since The_Donald and Kekistan, Pepe has become a hate symbol due to the wide adoption by far right trolls. Pepe might've never meant to be that, but neither was the Swastika or the roman salute, or other symbols that the Nazis adopted for themselves. The more pressing issue is that you should really not give people on Steam the benefit of the doubt of arguing in good faith. The whole gamergate movement is alive and well there.
As I said before I reject your premise about pepe and it’s use. And the swatsticka is a false equivalence.
I have seen zero substantiation of this overly broad statement except for some ADL fundametalists making claims and the alt-right whacos making claims. I consider both camps equally fringe.
Also keep telling all these people they are racist loonatics… at some point they might start to believe you are make it a self fulfilling prophecy. The alt right does the same… we co-opt the meme and tell people they are one of us… because we meme the same we must be the same… or something…
I have seen zero substantiation of this overly broad statement except for some ADL fundametalists making claims and the alt-right whacos making claims.
I don't care for American institutions, I simply speak out of personal experience on that matter of what I experienced and seen firsthand in many places.
Also keep telling all these people they are racist loonatics.. at some point they might start to believe you are make it a self fulfilling prophecy.
Ah, yes. They're only racist because I called them racist. That's the typical bullshit excuse racists use, claiming that the other side pushed them to become racist.
Here we see that you are also arguing in bad faith, and not just out of ignorance.
Could the first point on anecdotal evidence be that you see very specific instances. And/or confirmation bias? I’m not saying your observations are invalid… Just maybe not representative for the bulk of use cases… pepe is in reaction emojis on discord… in gifs on keyboards… and he is just silly. Does that mean all people that use them are aware of what the dogwistle to some might be… I’d argue … they are not.
And I think that in regards to calling people racist for doing innocuous things does have the potential to alienate people from your stance and that void is something the alt right gladly fills. And I think that is a danger that should be acknowledged. And I don’t mean be kind to open Nazis… I more mean “don’t ascribe to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence”.
Discord is equally full of racist gamergate incels. Not sure what keyboards you're referring to that have any sort of gifs, but I also fail to see how any of that is prove of it not being used by those people.
And if you think crying about black NPCs in video games, or other anti-woke shit, is not being racist / hateful, then you're just part of the same problem.
There you go again… creating this distance and making me out as a bad guy… I’m wondering what your end game is?
So is discord a Nazi bar? Is that what you are saying? Because I’ve found myself in plenty of discords of games that have fun low key communities with an image of peppe holding a cool sign amongst all the other game and internet nonsense…
And yes the radicalization pipeline is freaking scary. But keep in mind that constantly alienating people like what you seem to be doing… creates the vacuum to be filled.
Years ago when Rogan was still a rube interviewing deer hunters, taxidermists, astronauts and other real people… I Nopee out when the peterson, Jones lineup became common… I saw the swing happening… it was vicious… and I’ll bet they took a whole swath of his audience with them.
The left needs to provide a narrative, something that people can latch on to and aspire to… to pull them in, because the policies and goals are what we all need. At this moment screetching, calling everyone a Nazi and alienating people is not helping anyone…
I don't alienate anyone other than those who clearly are hateful and toxic in nature, including trolls arguing in bad faith, such as you who loves to put words into my mouth. And I'm not a "screeching" libtard or whatever your US centric green hair memes are.
Rogan has always been a far right pundit btw. That's kinda the point I'm trying to make here. Radicalization happens not by telling people to swing the Nazi flag, but subtly through stupid memes and how woke culture is going to ruin their lives.
That’s why these conversations are so cool. It helps all of us give words to some of the things we cannot express properly. Why I also enjoy reading co tributuins by others… especially if they challenge my preconceptions.
Iirc, when the ADP put out their guidance on Pepe, it was during the 2016 election when Pepe was being actively coopted by alt-rightera and neo Nazis. One of those "take something innocuous and poison it by using it as a pseudo secret signal to other bigots.
I vaguely recall them saying that Pepe was a hate symbol only insofar as it was being used for that purpose. I wonder if that changed, or if this investigation is ignoring that nuance to hamfist a “hate speech” argument.
I fear it is the latter. Nuance seems to get lost over time. It’s maybe the opposite of black people in the US using the N word amongst themselves in an attempt to take it back… I don’t think that this was successful by any measure as it just caused the racist to point at it and say… see they even say it about themselves because only hoodlums (what a word) use it…
If you look at the same section of the ADL website that Pepe is in, you’ll see the first page is just full of simple numbers (symbols are listed alphabetically). I don’t see anyone doing a similar study to the one posted here, but with “100%” instead of Pepe.
Also, side note, ADL lists “ACAB” as a hate symbol because some skinheads are racist and use the phrase. They have a similar disclaimer in the Pepe listing that context is an important consideration.
I’m surprised European governments haven’t demanded better enforcement of laws when it comes to hate speech on Steam. Instead they regulate stuff like lootboxes or spicy content because they think those are more harmful than fascism apparently.
That’s not whataboutism. Whataboutism is when someone brings something unrelated up to make the main topic look less important and that’s not happening here.
I suspect they haven’t heard about it as much lately. I bet if German politicians heard about the Swastika and Nazi stuff they would be on it very quickly. Nazi content like that is a big No-No in Germany.
Fortunately in the US I trust that their First Amendment has some teeth. If that were happening in most other countries, I’d be seriously worried that this senator might succeed with his evil plans.
Another thing, the first amendment doesn’t protect against violent or criminal speech, like terrorist threats/advocacy, threats towards individuals (bodily harm, sexual assault, murder, etc.) things which there is no shortage of anyway on Steam and they have every right to force the platform to moderate this, on the count of it being against the law.
Public space would be a place like a national park or the sidewalk. These forums are owned and operated by a private company, they’re private spaces and can be moderated however the company sees fit. Same thing for Twitter or Facebook or Lemmy.
A senator has the right to tell them that they need to do a better job at moderating their platform if there’s reasons to believe they’re letting people threaten violence or incite criminal activity.
Alright that’s still a weird ruling to someone outside America though because something like a shopping mall or a parking lot are public spaces here too as well as anything that is openly visible on the internet. Which makes a lot of sense.
@Kecessa speaks unclearly when saying “public space”—the term they are thinking of is usually “public forum.” source
The rules around what constitutes a true public forum and what the public forum doctrine even means are fuzzy, but in all cases the term refers to a space owned or created by the government.
Thus, a shopping mall, parking lot, or internet forum, being owned by a private company, is not a public forum and can’t really be defended on the basis of the public forum doctrine.
See the US section, the use of the term “public space” in this conversation is acceptable as the term “public” is used in opposition to privately owned and not public in the sense that it’s open to the public like a mall is.
.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_space
The government cannot usually limit one’s speech beyond what is reasonable in a public space, which is considered to be a public forum (that is, screaming epithets at passers-by can be stopped; proselytizing one’s religion probably cannot).
Think of it like your house. You can ask people to leave if they say something you find offensive. That is not infringing on their free speech.
If the owner of a shopping mall wants to ban the word banana, they can ask anyone who says it to leave. That is also not infringing on their free speech. That’s because shopping malls are not owned and operated by the government.
I think you’re misunderstanding the use of the term “public” here.
A mall is a public space in the sense that people can go, but it’s not a public space in the sense that it’s not operated by the government, it’s a private space.
I’m using the term public space in the governmental sense, not in the publically accessible sense. If you use that definition of public I’m pretty sure even in your country you can get censored and kicked out of a mall and moved off its surrounding property (the parking around it), because it’s privately owned. Once on the sidewalk you’re on public property though so you can do whatever you want as long as it respects the law.
Also, talking about Europe as a whole is wrong since different countries can still have different rules on the subject.
A shopping mall is absolutely not a public space, and if youre shouting slurs into a megaphone, or even just harassing random shoppers with your crazy beliefs, you are definitely going to be dragged out by security. And or/have the cops come to remobe you. I hope you understand how badly you just disproved your own point.
I don’t get how kids can be unsafe because of other kids being dumbasses. I guarantee the majority of the hate symbolism and speech on Steam’s forums, is from people under the age of 18. Kids are fucking little shits. Especially when they have no supervision, like on the Steam forums.
Teenage nazis when not moderated or taught otherwise will grow up to be adult Nazis, and have the very real possibility of spreading their hate to others when not moderated. It may seem trivial like something to hand-wave away, but many of these people complaining about woke games will grow up to be hateful republicans like the ones currently trying to take our rights away. It’s not a laughing matter.
Steam forums and groups have become a place to organize far right raiding groups that have harassing people and bullying women and minorities or straight up nazism glorification as their sole objective and Steam just does not care.
Of course they don’t, companies only care when Pepsi Co and P&G take away their ad revenue for serving extremist content and catering to extremists. Valve has no ad revenue and is the only real PC game store on the block, so no one can make them “care” the way YouTube and Twitch, and other platforms are made to “care”.
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