To be fair, it’s a pretty common play. Company makes unpopular decision, walks it back, tries again a little later once the novelty has worn off and the MSM doesn’t care to pick it up again.
I think this particular move is pretty ballsy with how egregious it is (especially considering that starfield didn’t do anything particularly outstanding to overshadow it), but I don’t doubt they’ll try it again. If people keep buying their games, where’s the risk? At worst they’ll still get a few dollars from those who, for whatever reason, buy it, and then it’s forgotten by the next time a game comes out.
They definitely did learn. They learned that they could charge for mods and people, sadly, will pay. They’ve learned that they can make more money by paywalling what should be essential patches and bugfixes. They learned that the average gamer is willing to be fleeced. They learned that they can run an IP into the ground and still extract maximum cash from it.
They’ve learned. They just didn’t learn the lesson that we here on Lemmy wanted them to learn. That’s a sad fact of being part of a minority community.
Ah, the yearly ritual continues. Bethesda makes a game that needs bug fixing, let’s the players fix it with mods, then B tries getting players to pay for the mods in the hopes they can finally charge money for mods that are needed to fix the game.
Classic Todd. Can’t wait until he quits making games. Bethesda might actually use a new game engine besides the Creation Engine.
The Creation Engine is not bad. It’s very purpose built for RPGs and has all the frameworks for worlds, NPC AI behaviour, quests, dialogue trees etc already in it.
It also has in-built support for creating addons, which is why the modding scene is so robust.
You should install the Creation Kit on Steam to check it out.
The architectural decisions are at the engine level and that stuff has a massive influence on the likelihood of bugs in the code running in that engine.
For example, traditional Unity (not ECS) runs all game code (so the code provided by those coding the game) in a single thread, which avoids A TON of multi threading bugs (as that’s one of the hardest parts in programming to master) but is very bad for performance in multi-core CPUs. Game programmers can fire up separate threads using the standard libraries of the programming language itself and manage them, but everything in the development framework that’s part of the engine pushes them to use that single-threaded model, so only advanced devs bother and only for very specific things.
Also the choice of programming language forced by the engine itself has a huge impact in the likelihood of bugs, but since I don’t want to start a Holy War I’m not going to star pointing fingers at specific languages and criticizing them ;)
True, resolving bugs depends on how effective debugging tools available to the developers are.
But there is no perfect game engine. All have quirks and bugginess of a game usually just comes down to how willing the team is to find and squash them. That’s why all games need patches after launch.
Language is not really an issue here since the Creation Engine uses Papyrus for all game logic, which is good enough for what it does.
Different, high level software designs (i.e. architectural designs) which are normally imposed by the game engine, have different probabilities of the developers who are making the code for those to produce bugs, because of lots of factors including things like of how they approach error validation and handling in the engine itself and in which domains does the engine leave the most freedom to coders and which ones does it leave less - some things are pretty safe to leave in the hands of even bad developers, others are not.
The example of multi-threading in Unity should’ve been clear: put a game engine that doesn’t impose a single thread pattern in front of somebody with little or no experience in multi-threaded programming and you will have a huge rate of bugs (mainly critical race conditions) and as it so happens most developers out there have little or no experience in multi-threaded programming. Yet multi-threading can yield far more performance in modern CPU since they’re all multi-core. For that specific game engine a software architectural choice was made to go with a structure that is not as performance but significantly less likely to lead to a higher bug rate when used by the average coder, probably because Unity targets less experience coders.
Good Senior Designers and Technical Architects don’t design the high level structure of the software for themselves as coders, they do it for the kind of coders that are likely to be coding for it.
Of course the developers themselves also have different capabilities and hence different baseline rates of creating bugs, hence why I said “both”.
I very much agree with what you are saying. If the engine changes we will lose mods, or at the very least there will be significantly fewer. I don’t make a habit of playing many games from 2012… except for Skyrim. I also dont play many games from 2001, except for Morrowind. I will spend hours or even days setting up a modding environment. Please let me have that for future Bethesda titles.
Also people calling us folks that like user-made mods shills, when they are trying to force a shift to the very much corporate owned Unreal Engine is funny.
You very much missed the point of my comment. After the “professional” response the public got when leaving very justified negative feedback on Starfield, I now don’t trust any comment supporting Gamebryo to not be a Bethesda employee. Nor was I advocating for shifting to Unreal, it was the next person who brought up a different engine which I said I’d prefer since it’s reliable. I don’t really care what engine the next Fallout is made with, for example, so long as it isn’t made in Gamebryo by a bunch of hacks.
You seem alright and I agree that gamebryo is typically crash heavy. I really didn’t mean it as an attack on you personally and apologize for conflating your opinion with someone else’s.
I do feel very strongly that whatever engine they use should support user generated mods, but let’s be real, I probably won’t have the time to spend on it anyway.
No, I’m saying from having used the Creation Kit and I modding Skyrim and Fallout.
I’m not defending the games or Bethesda. It’s their game design and narrative team’s fault, not the engine’s.
Modders have been familiar with Bethesda’s engines since Morrowind (Netimmerse and then Gamebryo, which form the basis of the Creation Kit), which is why the modders are able to make mods pretty quickly for these games. I’d rather still have the community use this experience with future Bethesda titles for modding than use something like Unreal that does not have the same level of customisation and tools.
Imo it’s not about having a new engine, it’s that they don’t make enough changes to it and it’s very apparent. On launch, their games are some of the most lackluster games visually. I remember the update from Skyrim to fallout was just that they added god rays to the engine, that was basically the only difference.
Then Fallout 76 came out and not only was it extremely ill equipped for multiplayer and online, but graphically the game suffered.
Then we talk about the quest systems in the engine, and that’s great and all, but the quest systems haven’t been fundamentally updated since Oblivion came out. Go play any other RPG, they’re running circles around Bethesda in quest design.
What’s worse is that Starfield was met with mixed reviews and showcased their inability to modernize their engine with the loading screen problem. So ES6 is set up to make or break Bethesda.
What you described are game design issues. The art is always only as good as the artist who makes it and the Bethesda game design team are not very good (or perhaps Todd is a mediocre director since he is directly responsible for almost all aspects of the game).
If you see how ENB and Sweetfx enhance the visuals you know that the engine is capable of much more. There is a mod called Enderal which is a total conversion of Skyrim that uses the same engine but improves the visual in almost all aspects: better models, better post processing, new game mechanics, etc. There is also a team working on porting Vampire The Masquerade Redemption to the Skyrim engine with all new assets (guns, etc).
So basically Bethesda games being mediocre is due to a mediocre team and direction. Even if they start using Unreal their games will still be mediocre.
Edit: Before someone points it out, I know that ENB is not a part of the Creation Engine, but an external postprocessor that hooks into the DirectX API and modifies the rendered output. I was just saying that Bethesda could use something like this to enhance the lacklustre visuals but they deliberately chose not to perhaps due to their artistic vision for the game.
This is sort’ve true but post processing isn’t where the game struggles per se. Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 lacked LOD lighting and featured prominent Z-fighting of many textures, that’s an inherent way that the LODs are calculated in the engine.
So most of what I’m talking about like lackluster quest design and poor visuals aren’t unfixable by the engine, but they’re direct results of developing using it. The quest structures are mostly the same as they have been for decades.
And yes, they could easily code something like an ENB mod but they just don’t. They’re so bad at this in fact that they can’t even get proper anti-aliasing working. If I remember right, Fallout used TAA and it was so awful that I preferred a 3rd party FXAA to their solution.
Also to be fair, ENB is similar to other graphics injectors which aren’t new on the block but you dont really want to use an injector so they’d have to code something like an ENB into their DLL and that would affect the engine so they don’t do it. It needs a big update to add stuff like that and this will be the third game they haven’t bothered to significantly change it.
Makes sense. Though I would still rather they not abandon the Creation Engine and improve its underlying technical features. The modding community has more than a decade of experience with its underlying subsystems and what actually contributes to the robust modding scene of Bethesda’s games.
It’s not just the fact they are paid but also they removed part of a quest, paywalled it for a lot and you still need to buy the rest of the quest not out yet!
From the conversations, it sounds like he knew they were a minor and still leaned into the conversations. Why? Why TF would you even be curious about it?
When you act erratic like that, you got caught. If you were innocent of even intention no long winded explanation of “they want me to disappear” would be necessary as the messages wouldnt even exist. The dildo of consequences has arrived for Guy Beahm.
It is the pedohile predator messages that get me, when we talk about text flirting with a 17 year old. That is just not the scale of an issue people blow it out to be. People are like a rape-murder case almost happened. It is beyond ridicolous.
It actually is a big deal. You really need to take some time to think it through to understand that. Either that or you are a troll and I’m just wasting my time right now 🤷♂️
I can’t believe somebody would type this for serious. First the jump between talking over text to rape is quite a long line in between. It is like us two disagreeing and me murdering you. And rape means non-consensual sexual intercourse. And given the age of 17 years, even if they would have consented, it wouldn’t be rape, as the person has enough emotional and sexual maturity to understand what it means. Now, it might be not legal in some jurisdictions, but this is just beyond wild proving my point people just want to make shit up.
It’s called statutory rape. And he was married and 38 at the time. And he was also trying to meet this person at twitch con. And this is the same year of twitch con that he was caught cheating on his wife.
No amount of spin makes this OK. Please stop trying to justify pedophilia in defense of your favorite streamer. Sexting a minor is not ok, and the fact that even Beahm himself couldn’t spin this in a way that’s good for him should tell you something.
It wouldn’t qualify for that as depending on the country people can consent at that age. And we speak of a difference of a single year anyways. There is a reason people bring up marriage and age difference up instead, because it simply isn’t pedophilia. Current societal definition: “Psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.”
The country is America dumbass. Age of consent is 18 in America. She was a minor, he was trying to solicit her at twitchcon. If you want to go the legal angle, that is a crime.
That’s not societal definition, that’s the clinical definition. But If you want to be pedantic, yes you are right. He’s actually an ephebophile, which is still detestable and is still illegal, still immoral, and still very fucking creepy.
Sexting a child is wrong. How is that hard for you to understand?
Are you a Doc fan? Are you a pedo/ephebophile? Libertarian? What’s going on here?
This isn’t a child, it is almost an adult in the legal sense quite literally. Your entire point of a crime have taken place has just no ground to stand on.
There were inappropriate messages, but sexting wasn’t mentioned so far and I doubt the exact details will be known. A meeting in a public place like Twitch Con is better than some back alley.
Thanks to resorting to personal attacks, but I am bothered so much by this, because this situation makes shitty behavior as in cheating on his wife almost the same as actual rape and abuse cases. And that takes away resources in prevention and investigation where it is needed. I grew up with the Michael Jackson smear campaigns and social media just proliferated this type of abuse.
Twitch con was in California. And in the legal sense, almost an adult is a minor. So yes, this is a crime. And immoral. And worse than cheating. And yes, I’m ok with personally attacking pedos and those who defend them.
Also a lot of those states use age-gap/romeo and Juliet laws. In most states it’s illegal for a 38 year old man to solicit a minor.
Raped at twitch con is better than raped in an alley? Jesus fucking Christ.
I’m guessing libertarian and pedo, you probably don’t actually give a shit about Beahm.
How did you get fro meeting somebody to raping on Twitch Con. You have zero reasons to assume this situation. It isn’t pedophilia in any legal or moral sense.
He streamed inside a public bathroom at E3. Then there’s also the thing where he cheated on his wife. I don’t know why people are so drawn to online personalities who prove over and over again they’re bad people with no intention to change.
Yeah, he is mainly a cheater on his wife. Not exactly great, but conversations on this sound like by people who never leave their basement and talk to people.
A pedophile predator is somebody who systematically texts underage people, and fishes out the vulnerable ones to exploit their weaknesses for their own satisfaction and exerts control over them. Speaking to a single, depending on the jurisdiction (±1 year), consenting adult (17 is young, but not completely stupid), with slightly flirty messages is absolutely not that. it isn’t even toxic. in fact, it devalues this tag for behaviour which is not cool due to the cheating and a bit skittish because of the age difference, but is otherwise kind of okay. See, next time somebody tells me about a pedophile predator I will be thinking about a conversation between two adults, or almost adult and not nasty abuse scarring people for life.
Have you talked to 17 year olds? They are far from developed in most cases. Anyone even in their late 20s should notice the difference in development and stay clear.
It is reprehensible and disgusting behavior, but it doesn’t mean we should universally apply labels across vast swaths of different issues, as it devalues said label and poisons future discussion.
Simple labels simplify discussion of course, but that runs the risk of losing nuance for the specific way someone was a disgusting creep.
Yeah I do. I disagree with most of their posts, but I agree with the motion that using the same labels indiscriminately is a problem in online discourse.
For example, far as I know so far, I’d call him a pedo, but I am unsure whether I’d call him a predator (of course, language differences apply, too). That’s just because I need words to express the predatory nature of people like Maxwell who prey on teens and YA.
That’s kinda what I meant, there’s too few words to just use the same label across the board sometimes. Doesn’t make something someone does less reprehensible. Rather i prefer to sometimes use full sentences instead of quick labels because it more accurately expresses the matter.
but I am unsure whether I’d call him a predator (of course, language differences apply, too). That’s just because I need words to express the predatory nature of people like Maxwell who prey on teens and YA.
What do you mean by this? Beahm was preying on a minor by sexting that minor and asking to meetup at twitch con. Are you specifically referring to people operating child sex rings? In either case, I don’t think anyone else uses your ultra-specific definition. For myself, and I assume most others, pedophiles are merely a type of predator. For example, the show, to catch a predator, was about creeps sexting kids online. This is precisely what Beahm was doing so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to call him a predator.
Not in the jurisdiction he was in, and that’s all that matters.
Also, while sending sexually explicit texts (using only words) is not illegal, I’m pretty sure we can correlate what his intent was. What, do you think he’s going to come out and fully admit he’s a pedophile? No.
Also, nowhere in any of his statement has he clarified that he didn’t know they were underage. If it were the case that he didn’t know, that’s a pretty fucking big deal and he should know how important it is to explain that. He didn’t though.
I hate to get so semantical but using the word pedophile incorrectly just desensitizes the word. Pedophilia means being attracted to children, primarily meaning before or in the early stages of puberty, usually younger than 13. In fact, many pedophiles would not be attracted to someone aged 15+ because they are typically exclusively or primarily interested in prepubescent bodies.
That doesn’t mean this guy isn’t a total asshole, but he’s not a pedophile, and I think anyone can understand an adult sexting an older teen, while still absolutely horrid, is quite different from sexting a child.
Once again, absolutely not defending this guy, I don’t even know who he is… but I think it’s important not to desensitize the word.
Yeah I would totally agree with this if the word wasn’t already desensitized a very long time ago. The language has changed. (I’m assuming people were ever differentiating, I don’t really know/remember the history.) Colloquially it means interested in teens unless it’s clarified to be worse than that.
I recommend not trying to make this argument, anywhere. It will not change the way people use words, even if it could there would not be a point (attraction to pre-teens is so egregious that it will always be clarified), and a lot of people will assume that someone who doesn’t accept the colloquial usage is themselves interested in teens and in denial about how the public actually views that to the point where they think only interest in prepubescent children is problematic and handwave everything else away as a language issue.
Colloquially, it’s a catch-all nowadays. Like I said in another reply, we don’t need to differentiate between lowest common denominators. That gets into sounding sympathetic to these fucks, and anyone who sympathizes might as well be one themselves.
I’ve attended a seminar for child protection before that was delivered by a former cop (that worked in the sex crimes division) and they said the exact same thing - in the context of correctly making the distinction between paedophile and sex offender.
kotaku.com
Najstarsze