These are global payment companies, they can’t just have a “we don’t allow payment for illegal content” cause that varies by country (and by state even).
We should demand mastercard shut down all payments to everyone, as their very business model clearly falls afoul of the laws of the People’s Republic of North Korea.
They’re obviously basing it on the local laws of the business and customer. That varies from each transaction to the next. They’re just saying that they don’t restrict anything that they aren’t legally required to restrict.
I don’t think that’s accurate because they asked Dlsite before them to restrict their content based on American Law. They tried to remove access to content from outside Japan that Visa was complaining about and Visa still told them to remove the content (I guess cause people were using VPNs) so they had to remove the ability to pay with visa and Mastercard entirely.
Just because you don’t understand their response, doesn’t mean it’s a nothing statement.
“Unlawful”, based on the region that you and the vendor operate in. And yes, that does vary based on which region you and they are in. And yes, it can get very complicated. Welcome to the world of economics.
In short. Vendors can be considered unlawful in your region, even if they don’t offer the specific illegal service or product in your region, but do in others.
What MasterCard is saying here is. “If we’re not legally required to take any action. We won’t”
I do kind of wonder of any of these game devs could go after these payment processing companies for loss of income? I’m not a lawyer, but I’d definitely be looking into it if I was a Dev that has been effected by this.
Valve, on the other hand, should be sueing if the Mastercard statement proves false and it was in fact their policies forcing the Steam and Itch io takedowns.
Yeah, I figured it would probably be something more like that order of operations. But I’m also sure there is probably a clause in the agreement between dev and store that says they can pull your game for any reason without notice, so there’s probably nothing that can be done.
correct, but it could be argued the clause is too broad and doesn’t fit into the current circumstances considering it wasn’t a choice itch made, but a choice their payment processor forced them to make.
that in itself could be a bridge that leads to a direct confrontation between developers and mastercard.
Loss of income is really difficult to sue for. Especially if you’re an indie company in another country, trying to sue an international company. You either sue locally, or open up a office in their nation.
And your case has to be rock solid.
Like tech companies still lose cases around loss of income, even when it’s obvious to the average person that the major company is going out of their way to stamp out competition.
By that standard, I ought not be able to use the card to buy booze (might give it to a minor or use for a Molotov Cocktail) a gun (obviously could use for crime) , and probably a million other things they let people buy with cards.
Well, you see, guns and booze are adult things (with tons of lobbying and taxes and corporate interest), while games are for kids and stupid and non-Christian. Simple!
So Valve says the processors - such as Stripe and PayPal - pressed the issue based on pressure from MasterCard (and possibly Visa). MasterCard says they had nothing to do with it. Itch says that Stripe was directly responsible in their case with a blanket ban on anything generally sexy, but that Stripe blamed their banking partners.
So Stripe, at least, is directly responsible but insists they are under outside pressure. This means the pressure is coming from one or more actual banks. Since we don’t have names, we have to do some research to find out who Stripe works with. The possibilities I was able to dig up on a quick search include:
Citigroup
Wells Fargo
Barclays
Goldman Sachs
Evolve Bank & Trust
It seems clear that this has nothing to do with legality in any jurisdiction and that some powerful financial institution is forcing their twisted, puritanical morality on anyone they can at the behest of like-minded authoritarian terrorists. One or more of the above institutions are most likely at fault.
Sure. Let them whatabout. But to us, consumers, it shouldn’t matter.
We know the stores aren’t responsible, so we shouldn’t attack them.
The processors are. For Visa and MasterCard it’s pretty obvious. Itch, as you said, puts direct blame on Stripe, and I think we can trust that.
As much as processors need banks, banks also need processors. It’s a sort of symbiosis. Damage to one actually trickles onto the other. So pressing onto processors isn’t a mistake. It’d be foolish at best and malicious at worst to suggest that.
Now that we have leverage as users and consumers, having started a push which made way and caused a response (first the prepared phone statement and now a press release), the absolute wrong thing to do is bacl down and say “sorry, we were wrong, it was B after all and not you, A”.
And look at it this way: There’s less payment processors and they’re smaller than banks. If you suddenly turn to banks, you won’t accomplish anything because to them, a few consumers who aren’t their customers doesn’t cause them even an itch. But if payment processors come to them it might.
[he] is the guiltiest man who ever lived. just the sweatiest, most obvious rapist and child molester in the history of the world. he deserves an award for this; his first deserved award.
If this is true then I honestly hope Steam and Itch go “ok, then, PayPal and Stripe are banned from the store as payment forms until we can figure out a way of limiting content you can pay with them”. Honestly I don’t think enough people use either of those payments forms, and even if they do currently they almost assuredly have a card they can use instead, and are more likely to switch payment methods than to stop buying games.
IIRC Stripe is the main payment processor. If you’re paying with a visa or mastercard online, it’s usually via stripe. Hence, the immediate censorship.
Ah, if that’s the case then MC statement is kind of pointless, so it’s not them putting the pressure, but you still have to go through the people putting the pressure to get to them. I thought that if you put your card number on steam it had some more direct form of charging than going through stripe.
Unfortunately they are indeed big players, Stripe where people use credit cards and PayPal everywhere else. Both horrible companies that we’d be a lot better off if replaced with privacy-respecting alternatives.
I mainly use PayPal as a necessary evil so I don’t have to pull out my wallet and put the card info in every time I want to buy a game. I dunno maybe I SHOULD go back to that because then only the games that are worth the effort of getting up off the couch are the ones I’d buy.
Steam remembers my card, so I don’t have to input it there everytime. I get that you wouldn’t want to put your card info somewhere shady, but Steam is not that. Also, most banks nowadays have virtual cards you can use for that sort of thing, some even have one use cards that self destroy after a single purchase. So the safety that PayPal used to offer is not that important anymore.
Another commenter already posted about steam saving card info, but I’ll make a nod to a password manager if you’re not already using one.
First of all, if you aren’t you should be, there’s plenty of awesome free ones. I like keepass or keepassXC. They’re cross platform and you can sync them across devices or use some form of cloud sync (not recommended by me but plenty of people do it).
Anyways. Within a password manager you can save card info (anything actually) and so you don’t have to pull out your physical wallet, just input your manager password and copy/paste over the card details. For me it’s just about as fast as using PayPal anyways with all the extra windows, redirects, loading times, and me using a 2fa token etc.
MasterCard’s and Valve’s statements seems to point at Stripe and PayPal as the ones who folded to the pressure. These payment processors then cited MasterCard’s rules to back up their change in policy.
MasterCard now clarifying that the payment processors are over-interpreting the rules and anything legal is ok seems a very good thing here. Valve should be able to go back to Stripe and PayPal with this and say: “Hey, you’ve misunderstood the rules you are quoting; MasterCard themselves say anything legal is ok, and that is the exact policy we’ve been using!”
They don’t need to start a payment processing company. All they gotta do is start accepting crypto again.
I mean come on, the solution is so obvious. This is what cryptocurency was designed for. But Lemmy refuses to see it. You’ll just downvote me and call it a scam like you always do.
The problem is not with crypto itself, it’s with the part of the community (certainly the loudest) who have been telling the public to treat it as an investment asset.
Trendy and morally correct. If we can hate on Mastercard for the banning of adult content on Steam, we can blame crypto and the people around it for the scams and the continuing environmental harm.
Why blame crypto instead of the specific parts of a different community? You can’t generalize a group because of the actions of a few individuals
Cryptos impact is high but not as much as many other fields, and it’s not for the love of profit, but as a necessity to protect a decentralized currency used by lots of people
Many cryptos don’t even have any environmental cost
Why use Mastercard as an excuse to move to crypto? You can’t generalize the problems of the current monetary system because of the actions of a few. Crypto’s impact is high? It is a non-essential. Many cryptos don’t matter. And bitcoin, as the one people gravitate towards, is awful for the environment, for something that is a non-essential (and not even a practical currency).
Payment processors are just part of it. Each time similar issues arise, I’m here
The current system’s problems are not just the actions of a few. The few in question have an incredibly high market share. Crypto would fix these issues: no need for middlemen, more privacy and anonymity (for applicable cryptocurrencies), cheaper international transactions, decentralized to prevent censorship (as long as governments don’t fuck it up too much)
Not to mention your original message was about criticizing Mastercard which is a single entity, and you’re comparing that to criticizing crypto which isn’t
What isn’t essential to you could be essential to others. For many people, card payments are not essential. Emails aren’t essential. Cars or public transport aren’t essential. You’re saying something is useless based on adoption. So it is just useless until it becomes essential at an arbitrary point? So it does not prove anything
Cryptocurrency is essential to protect your online financial privacy. If you don’t care about it, that’s on you.
Yeah before all this if you told me “MasterCard is selling incest and rape games!” I would have said no, Steam is doing that. But now I feel like they want to have a heavier hand.
Ultimately I think it’s pressure from the Trump admin/project 2025 on companies to eventually make porn illegal
There’s definitely some selection bias for me that made it easy to not even be interested in buying the types of games that won’t work on Linux, and that made my switch easier. I hope the solution that we eventually arrive at isn’t, “Here’s a custom kernel compatible with our anti-cheat,” but instead, “Here’s a way to play our game without kernel level anti-cheat.”
The only way to do that is to use Linux anyway, ditch Windows, and give them the middle finger until they make their game available. No amount of asking politely or screaming obnoxiously will make them care if people just continue using Windows because they feel like they “have to” play this game and keep paying them money, because all they care about is money. Only when they can clearly see their position is losing them money (3% is probably not clear enough for many of them but time will tell) are they going to change their behavior. There’s nothing else that motivates them more than seeing money slipping through their fingers.
Depending on white knights like Valve and CDPR to ride to our rescue is good but they can’t do this on their own either, and in fact they’ve already done very close to as much as they reasonably can. They need our help, we consumers are the ones who are statistically not doing our part. We need to recognize that we have the bulk of the agency here and we need to start to use it.
We have to choose what matters more to us, the future of playing video games on our own terms or letting the developer dictate how much we need to spend and what rights we need to give up to able to play a popular video game right now. We’re not talking about something we need to live. This is a choice we can make. Will enough people choose the future instead of immediate gratification? I don’t know, available evidence doesn’t paint a particularly reassuring picture, but I never am willing to give up on hope.
The anticheat software CAN work on Linux about as well as it does on Windows. Most of the more invasive syscalls don’t exist but said tools are also backing away from those on the Windows side as diminishing returns and fear of pulling a Crowdstrike. Alternative calls are used and most of the major anti-cheat solutions actually already do that and already support Wine/Proton in ways that most game devs never will.
The issue is that the devs (so their publishers) actively disable support for that. They have EAC et al check if it is running in Proton and quit if it is. There are reasons for that (much smaller testing surface) but it is also hard to believe that companies like EA actively updating all their old Battlefields to block Proton isn’t intentional and political.
Err, and then you have stuff like DBZ Xenoverse 2 which just will never have their EAC updated because it is more effort than adding a few new skins to go with the latest movie.
There are also rumors that Microsoft will remove third-party apps like antivirus apps and anticheats from Windows kernel. If that happens, it will pretty much solve the anticheat problem for Linux as well.
Yes. That is the aforementioned “pulling a Crowdstrike”
But, as I said, stuff like EA actively going through basically every Battiefield since 3 and actively disabling Proton “support” indicates a political aspect to things. And there will still be the same testing surface issues that make live games hesitant to support “Valve and some company say this is fine” for games that make more money than many small nations.
Just avoid the games that use them. Games and the software they install should NEVER EVER run kernel-level. Also the games that use those ac’s are bad anyways.
If you must play those games, passthrough your GPU and hide the fact that the VM is a VM.
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