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Captain_Ender, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

He's really blaming the execs and showrunner between the lines I think. Saying she had to "make tough decisions" means "she fucked up". It's Netflix and the showrunner who think they need to go to the lowest common denominator with scripts to appeal to Americans, especially hard fantasy/sci-fi. So he's kinda pissed at both groups really not just audiences.

It's a shame because other works like GOT 1-5 show the opposite. Go for complex, go for the source material, and audiences will be patient for it.

Madison_rogue,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

Then blame execs and showrunners, not the audience. American audiences are savvier than he thinks, just because he had one pitch that didn't fare well with American audiences doesn't mean that they won't embrace more complicated elements of The Witcher.

Plus it just sounds sad; blame audiences for something you, as a producer, can't effectively produce.

masterspace,

He wasn’t showrunner, just EP on 16 episodes, and he can’t burn the showrunner or Netflix if he wants more work in the industry.

Madison_rogue,
@Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

I didn't say he was a showrunner.

falsem, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

Yeah, blame your customers.

Simplifying is really different from what they did which is completely alter characters, unnecessarily kill off characters, introduce new plots that didn't exist, etc. The Lord of the Rings movies, and the recent Dune movie both did a lot of that but are considered fantastic adaptations. Even Game of Thrones was an excellent adaptation for the first ~5 seasons and had huge mass market appeal while still being complex.

This is just shitty writers making excuses.

isthingoneventhis,

man the dune movie was so interesting sounding and watching it was such a … idk… it was an experience. There was so much stuff that seemed so loosely strung together to the point of feeling almost baffling. I wouldn’t think LoTR or early GoT are comparable?

falsem,

:shrug: I liked it.

C4RP3_N0CT3M,

You might need to go back and watch it again. I had a completely different experience, and I found the plot rather cohesive. It's one of the best movies I've ever seen in my opinion.

GoodEye8,

I felt like Dune needed some prior knowledge of the books to really follow the plot. Not because the plot wasn’t cohesive, but because so much plot was condensed into a movie that was already 2 and half hours long. It’s not the fault of the movie, the book is just dense. But it does end up disorienting for the average viewer who can’t instantly adjust their understanding of the universe to fully follow the plot.

C4RP3_N0CT3M,

That's fair. I never read the books or even watched the original movie, but I do have fans in my circle that have given me a bit of an indirect knowledge of the Duniverse. Even still, the acting, the cinematography, the music, everything in this movie is just amazing to me.

Kolanaki, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
!deleted6508 avatar

Right… It’s the audience’s fault and not the show runners who outright refused to follow the books and games leading to the star of the show leaving. 🙄

Unaware7013, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

Alternative headline "Person highly involved with making show blames anyone but themselves for failure"

CraigeryTheKid, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

Season 2 (“Book 1” in the US), I agree made some TERRIBLE changes, especially around Yennifer’s relationship with Ciri.

Having just finished Season 3, however, I feel like they mostly pulled back into following the book’s major plotlines. Sure, a TV show makes some concessions on content, but overall I felt it followed the books “okay”. Everything that happened in Thanedd was close, and everything after that too, in the final 3 episodes. Rience was the strangest change to me, since that doesn’t happen for several books and it’s Ciri’s doing.

Does the general public agree? Or are we still so mad about Season 2 that we refuse to see Season 3 positively?

Arcane_Trixster,

I’m not watching S3, knowing Cavill won’t be back. Not worth investing anymore time. The series is a failure to me.

Veraxus,
@Veraxus@kbin.social avatar

This. I see no point in investing any more of time in this show. Netflix needs to fire everybody, pull every episode from existence, and just start over with people who actually care about the source material and are willing to invest the time, effort, and respect to do it right.

CraigeryTheKid,

I guess you two are answering my last question - we’re so mad at Season 2 that the negative verdict is decided regardless.

My point was that Season 3 seems to have pulled back and DID honor the source material much better, but I guess it was too late.

Veraxus,
@Veraxus@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, fair, but I didn’t like the first season, either. Cavill was perfect, Joey Batey as Dandelion was… fine… and that is where the positives stopped. The show was a mess from the start and you can’t just erase those seasons if they did happen to do a little better on 3… and knowing that Cavill is out for season 4… there is just no point. I’d rather replay Witcher 3 again than ever watch another minute of that show.

CraigeryTheKid,

oof, you just reminded me - Dandelion in season 3 was… not as good as Season 1/2. Even down to the detail that every time he came on screen, my wife demanded to know what they did with his hair. That, and the strangely unnecessary sex scenes with another male.

ok ok, season 3 wasnt perfect either. but I was “surprised” that the big events at Aretuza and the major events afterward all followed the book rather closely…

PabloDiscobar, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@PabloDiscobar@kbin.social avatar

Series Produced by
Jason F. Brown ... executive producer (24 episodes, 2019-2023)
Steve Gaub ... executive producer / co-producer (24 episodes, 2019-2023)
Tomasz Baginski ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Sean Daniel ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Lauren Schmidt Hissrich ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Mike Ostrowski ... executive producer / producer / co-executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Jaroslaw Sawko ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Piotr Sikora ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2023)
Simon Emanuel ... consulting producer / executive producer (16 episodes, 2019-2021)
Matthew O'Toole ... executive producer (16 episodes, 2021-2023)
Matthew Bouch ... consulting producer (12 episodes, 2021-2023)
Katie Bullock-Webster ... post producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Declan De Barra ... supervising producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Ildiko Kemeny ... co-producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Jenny Klein ... co-executive producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Sneha Koorse ... supervising producer (8 episodes, 2019)
David Minkowski ... co-producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Suzie Shearer ... line producer (8 episodes, 2019)
Mark Birmingham ... co-producer (8 episodes, 2021)
Sean Guest ... associate producer (8 episodes, 2021)
Sam J. Brown ... associate producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Ben Burt ... associate producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Javier Grillo-Marxuach ... executive producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Haily Hall ... co-producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Sasha Harris ... producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Veselin Karadjov ... line producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Tania Lotia ... supervising producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Tera Ragan ... co-producer (8 episodes, 2023)
Alik Sakharov ... executive producer (7 episodes, 2019)
Kathy Lingg ... executive producer (6 episodes, 2019)
Juan Cano Nono ... Líne Producer Canary Islands (4 episodes, 2019)
Beau DeMayo ... co-producer (2 episodes, 2019)
Stephen Surjik ... executive producer (2 episodes, 2023)
Marc Jobst ... consulting producer (1 episode, 2019)

pivot_root,

God… it’s like having having an entire 8-level deep organizational structure for a team of 10 people. No wonder it’s mismanaged to shit.

loobkoob,

Yeah, it looks pretty bad from that list. It may not be quite as bad in practice - some of them may have their name attached because, for instance, they co-own a production company where only person is involved but all three co-owners get their names on the credits. And some of them may be involved on the technical side, some for the story side, some just for financing, etc.

But even so, that looks like far too many names to have any kind of coherent vision.

Gutotito, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@Gutotito@kbin.social avatar

We made it this way because you're stupid. Also, if you don't like it, you're stupid.

No wonder it turned out to be a pile of dogshit.

HidingCat, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

Remember, Game of Thrones did well, and that's not a simplified show during its peak.

Computerchairgeneral, do gaming w The Callisto Protocol developer Striking Distance Studios lays off 32 employees

It's always a shame when layoffs like this happen, but not surprising given the game's lukewarm reception. Hopefully, the laid-off employees can find other work and the studio can recover.

Hdcase, do gaming w The Callisto Protocol developer Striking Distance Studios lays off 32 employees

That’s a real bummer, especially as I ended up really liking Callisto. I hope everyone lands on their feet.

TrismegistusMx, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@TrismegistusMx@lemmy.world avatar

When it flops they’ll blame Americans too. Narcissists are incapable of assuming responsibility for their own failures.

teft, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@teft@startrek.website avatar

“we want to make more money so we dumbed down the plot to idiot level and blame it on americans being dumb. Also we changed everything to be more emotional because that’s what tiktoks kids want, more emotion and less plot or something”

Guy sounds like a twat.

HuddaBudda,
@HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

He's a guy that is hitting excel spreadsheet metrics from past shows, wondering why his metrics aren't appealing to people.

Contramuffin, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot

Sounds like sour grapes and rationalization. The producer states that his complicated projects failed. If all of your complicated projects failed, then it may be that you struggle with making complicated projects, not that Americans don’t like complicated projects.

Plus, it sounds like he disproves his own point without realizing it. He simplified the Witcher and it still isn’t doing well. Isn’t that an indicator that maybe plot complexity isn’t as strong of a predictor of audience engagement as he thinks?

2pt_perversion,

And yet Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon are both in the same fantasy genre with complex storylines and they did great in the US.

Itty53, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@Itty53@kbin.social avatar

Huh, the games did phenomenally well in America. Weird. /s

We're in an age of knee-jerk finger pointing, with the problem getting worse the higher you get in society. It's just one giant game of blame hot-potato.

Here's the thing: The producers don't owe the fans shit. They don't owe the fans an explanation even. They owe the investors an explanation. The fans are just there, that's the reality of being a fan of something. We don't get a say, we just can choose to watch or not, and then decide to trash it or praise it online if we want to.

So while there's a problem going up the ladder of the blame game, there's another one coming back down the ladder, and it's entitlement. For some odd reason there's an air of "we deserve this content, exactly to our specifications" and it permeates games, movies, music, all of the entertainment content we have been inundated with as a society. And I think the culture generally leans towards encouraging it because it keeps the culture thriving. But it also keeps us in the exact status quo we're in as a society, beholden to these billionaire publishers we all rail on daily.

Because let's face it: We as a society spend an enormous amount of energy and as such, destroy a lot of the planet, on all this entertainment. If we can't accept that as a fact then we're fucking doomed.

Cynicivity,

Fans are very important. I think you may be on to something that we as a society are starting to feel entitled when it comes to media, but downplaying the importance of the fans and saying they don’t matter is a bit too much.

In recent memory I can think of a few examples where fans had a major effect on the entertainment content we received.

The response to the first Sonic trailer was abysmal and much of the internet called them out for Sonic’s design. The studio listened… the artist who designed Sonic’s look even went to Twitter to thank people for all of the feedback. Then they went back, redesigned his look throughout the film and we got a pretty solid film out of that.

The entirety of managed to convince WB to bring Snyder back and let him finish his vision.

I mean even in comics, the fans mattered. How many times have comics held contests or write-ins to vote on decisions for certain characters or directions to take the story. The big one that comes to mind is the death of Jason Todd. People hated his Robin and voted to kill him off. Eventually he was brought back as Red Hood, but none of this would have occurred without the fans.

Oh and who could possibly forget Morbius getting rereleased because Sony mistakenly thought people loved it since there was so much online discussion and memes regarding the movie. For better or worse, fans (consumers) did that.

Itty53, (edited )
@Itty53@kbin.social avatar

There's a difference between choosing and listening to fans (critics) to improve and being made to feel obligated to do so. This society literally harasses people over being upset at fictional portrayals of cartoons. Sometimes harassed right out of their chosen career. Game devs know this very well.

Content creators have no obligations to the consumers of the content, period. No more than Picasso had an obligation to paint landscapes. He didn't care to so he didn't.

Content creators, publishers, etc: they're free to make schlock we don't like, and we're free to express our disdain for it, and I'm free to point out that the folks wasting their energy complaining are indeed, wasting their energy. And cringey to boot. There's a line crossed when you start insisting and making personal commentary at all. A publisher's interests and the fan's interests are not always aligned. That's fine. You can deal with it, I promise. You bring up the snyder cut: Know who probably drove that whole push? The studio. Yeah, every one of those "fans" got played. This kind of shit is unacceptable. Period.

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/justice-league-the-snyder-cut-bots-fans-1384231/

Don't encourage it.

Phrodo_00,

we're free to express our disdain for it, and I'm free to point out that the folks wasting their energy complaining are indeed, wasting their energy complaining are indeed, wasting their energy. And cringey to boot.

Oh, so you're free to complain, but when others do it it's cringey? Got it.

Itty53,
@Itty53@kbin.social avatar

Declaring "I shall not be purchasing [thing] because [reason]" in public is yes, very cringey. You just, don't buy the thing. That's all. No look-at-me-i'm-important declaration necessary.

My complaint isn't the same as that bullshit. Try again.

Veraxus, (edited )
@Veraxus@kbin.social avatar

So... the supply side matters but the demand side does not? Pfft.

If you make a thing that has an established fan base, and the fans are not happy, you screwed up. This isn't a problem with fans, it's a you problem. So how do you NOT screw up? You listen to the fans. Ideally, you hire people who are fans themselves.

Let's analogize: say carrots are in high demand - people can't get enough of them. And you tell everyone you have a big shipment of carrots coming in. And you set up a store called "Jim-Bob's Carrot Emporium", and people are lined up around the block... but it turns out the only thing you sell are potatoes... yeah, people are going to be pissed, and they will be justified, because you sold them a lie.

Tigbitties, do gaming w The Witcher producer blames Americans and social media for Netflix series' simplified plot
@Tigbitties@kbin.social avatar

This is the kinda guy that would yell at parking sign for smashing into his car.

Ferk, (edited )
@Ferk@kbin.social avatar

It's worse, he's smashing his face with it and yet refuses to acknowledge the parking sign while complaining about some other imaginary obstacle instead.

If it were true that Americans & social media wanted such simplified plot, it would have been more successful than it was.

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