bin.pol.social

LSNLDN, do games w Begun the kernel wars have

As someone who will likely need to move to Linux after windows 10 goes dark can anybody ELI5 or maybe a little older, TIA

sirico,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

This is windows, So Valorant is running its anticheat stopping Battlefields anti-cheat from starting up. Meaning you will have to pick one game as they all seem to start from boot though other sources have said the games have to be running.

In Linux you could prob just run a pass-through in a couple of VMs. But Linux itself doesn’t work with most of these anti-cheats so by default no one running Linux is exposed to this sort of thing.

AnUnusualRelic,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

In Linux you could prob just run a pass-through in a couple of VMs.

So instead of having trouble with drivers for your one GPU, you can have it with two. Awesome.

seralth,

deleted_by_author

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  • AnUnusualRelic,
    @AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, obviously, and you don’t typically have trouble with display drivers either nowadays, I suppose we were both jesting.

    The right way to do it would probably be either to spin a dedicated partition, or to add a boot entry that sets up a dedicated environment for the game (I haven’t really thought about it but it’s probably doable). In both cases it’s a bit silly, when the whole anti-cheat thing is apparently mostly useless anyway.

    biscuitswalrus,

    I’m not an expert, but it sounds like if you finish a session of valorant, the anti cheat never unloads and continues to monitor memory and files.

    Easy Anticheat though, according so some sources, only runs during game play.

    Riots Anticheat has a bad history though. But both essentially are black boxes that send details both hash and samples back to their owners for them to approve what’s on it computer. Opened a medical record? It’s probably been hashed and sent back.

    Opened your employers accounting files when working from home? details you probably sent riot a copy.

    Both can be updated. There’s no guarantees that riot won’t do something nasty against a portion of high value targets. They know you from your payment details. They can identify, update the module and get anything they like, they have root.

    Anticheat has a history of being a tool for hackers. vice.com/…/hackers-are-using-anti-cheat-in-genshi…

    There’s no upside for the user. Mostly because they don’t work anyway.

    Serinus,

    These games won’t run on Linux.

    They do this to prevent cheaters, and it is effective. Some people who have no problems running any other executable that can do just as much damage believe this load on boot style is too invasive.

    I wouldn’t mind this feature dying so I could play on Linux though.

    pupbiru,

    load on boot INTO THE KERNEL is the main issue… this isn’t “just another executable”

    Serinus,

    Tell me how any other app uploading your entire documents directory is okay then. “Into the kernel” is largely fear mongering. Other, less trustworthy apps can do plenty of damage, and you don’t seem to care about those.

    If you really want to be secure, you can’t do gaming on the same machine as your security sensitive stuff. It’s not limited to these anti-cheats.

    pupbiru,

    code running in kernel space is hugely privileged… it can open up enormous security vulnerabilities because when you’re in the kernel you can bypass a LOT of security checks and restrictions… windows code is generally pretty well tested, so is unlikely to have particularly bad bugs like RCEs etc… but these kernel mode apps aren’t nearly as rigorously tested - things like this is what lead to the crowdstrike outage

    things running in the kernel can also cause a lot more damage than user space apps, because the kernel doesn’t do a lot of the error checking and validation that stops things like kernel panics

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    And anti-cheat needs a lot of access (e.g. read app memory) and sees a lot of churn to evolve with cheat engines. More churn means less thorough testing, which means higher likelihood of an exploit.

    pupbiru,

    “needs” might be debatable… i’m just don’t think the trade-off is worth it (and thus don’t play games that require kernel-level access)

    sugar_in_your_tea,

    It needs it to accomplish its goals. Whether its goals are worth accomplishing is a separate discussion entirely.

    Serinus,

    If you really want to be secure, you can’t do gaming on the same machine as your security sensitive stuff. It’s not limited to these anti-cheats.

    pupbiru,

    that is wildly inaccurate. do you have a source?

    and also, security isn’t about 100% guarantees… we each have our own risk profile: regular joe gamer doesn’t need to be as security conscious as someone working for the NSA… their risks are different, because their exploitation value is different… most people only need to protect themselves from generalised attacks because they’re not going to be targeted

    kernel level apps, however, blast a massive hole in the walls that keep us secure and potentially open attack vectors for generalised attacks… it’s just not worth that risk

    Serinus,

    You’re running closed source software that has permissions to read your keyboard input to other applications (other than apps running as admin), they can access your files, and and they can communicate over the Internet.

    You’re inherently trusting these publishers if you’re gaming on Windows. Who is the publisher of Darkest Dungeon or Deep Rock Galactic or Lethal Company?

    Goodeye8,

    "Into the kernel" is largely fear mongering.

    Until it actually gets exploited.

    And it's such a weird argument to make that just because some other app uploads your entire documents directory (which to be clear is also not okay) you shouldn't care about being forced into an potential attack vector that can take over your entire computer. Do you also leave your home server unsecured because Google is tracking you through your phone?

    jago, do games w Begun the kernel wars have
    @jago@lemmy.world avatar

    *its settings.

    elvith, do games w Begun the kernel wars have

    Soooo, you’re telling me, that if I want to use a NVIDIA graphics card in Linux, I am not allowed to load its official driver’s kernel modules unless I either deactivate secure boot or generate my own signing key and load it into the UEFI, as otherwise this would make the kernel untrusted. But on windows every $random_game_publisher is allowed to run at kernel level without it being considered untrusted?

    seralth,

    deleted_by_author

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  • frezik,

    Who could have foreseen that letting game companies into the kernel would cause problems?

    elvith,

    Micro transactions on intentionally caused blue screens when?

    NutinButNet,

    Microsoft, ironically. The one time they were right.

    Granted, it wasn’t in anyone’s best interests but their own for not wanting anyone else to have kernel level access.

    Quibblekrust,
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">let $random_game_publisher = "Ubisoft";
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">print("But on windows every {$random_game_publisher} is allowed...?");
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">> But on windows every Ubisoft is allowed...?
    </span>
    

    I’d like to report an issue with your code.

    elvith,

    Well, see, there’s your problem. You handcrafted this code carefully, but didn’t think about today’s coding standards. That’s outdated code you use. Why use a simple print with variable substitutions, if you can instead just vibe print it by sending a rough description what your program tries to output to an LLM to account for such possible errors! /s

    Carighan, do games w Begun the kernel wars have
    @Carighan@piefed.world avatar

    Ahahahaha. 😂 That is just brilliant. The kernel anti-cheat deadlock.

    Brunbrun6766,
    @Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

    No no deadlock was that weird moba valve put out and supported for a whooping 2 months

    systemglitch,

    They are no longer supporting it?

    Madnessx9,

    It’s not even released yet, its still being developed.

    PlexSheep,

    Dota2? /s

    SkyeStarfall,

    Wdym supported for 2 months? It was, and still is, in closed alpha, getting regular updates

    Brunbrun6766,
    @Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

    My bad, it just never makes any news rounds anymore so to the majority of game players it may as well be dead.

    DragonOracleIX,

    Valve never intended for deadlock to have as much media coverage as it did. It happened anyways because a media outlet chose to ignore the informal NDA message that popped up when launching the game. The message was removed shortly after the incident.

    caut_R, do games w At the end of Portal 2...

    That‘s a nice catch I‘m gonna spread at any opportunity in the future

    DivineDev, do games w Begun the kernel wars have

    or adjust it is settings

    Good job EA

    Skipcast, do games w Begun the kernel wars have

    This only happens if you’re running both games at the same time. Still not great but not as bad as it looks.

    Gonzako,

    Are ya sure? Valorants anti cheat is always on

    Skipcast,

    Yes. I don’t have the source unfortunately but @AntiCheatWard on Twitter confirmed it

    sinokon,

    Just checked a few sources and yes it only happens when Valorant is already running and you launch BF6

    Carighan,
    @Carighan@piefed.world avatar

    It uses an anti-cheat that is loaded while the game is not? What is this and why is anybody playing it at all? O.o

    markz,

    All of these companies keep looking for places they can get an inch more. Sometimes it backfires, but other times it succeeds and gets normalized.

    Gonzako,

    Nope, valorants anti cheat loads on boot and embeds itself on deep windows callbacks to see everything in and out

    r00ty,

    I can tell you why they do it. Which is to get installed at launch time (like a driver required to boot for example), so they can watch absolutely everything that loads into the system.

    But yes, I wouldn't play any game that needs a kernel anti-cheat.

    bridgeenjoyer,

    Kind of funny now we need to go back to consoles to play games because these asshole corps want to hijack our pcs.

    HK65,

    Or just don’t play these games. There are enough games out there that you’ll never run out of decent ones.

    Smoogs,

    Agreed. The steam sales alone could keep you so busy that you probably couldn’t even get around to test each one in one life time.

    Chances are if we tried we’d probably find one that you like equal if not better.

    explodicle,
    @explodicle@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I got a console when I switched to Linux. This has been a problem for decades now. So I’ve got one corporate game box that works with my friends, and one computer that I actually control.

    bridgeenjoyer,

    I just prefer my main pc to do everything…but I will probably not play those games anyways

    thermal_shock,

    Most don’t know, don’t care, just want more games.

    Aielman15, do games w Begun the kernel wars have
    @Aielman15@lemmy.world avatar

    Hello, fellow Rainmeter user with Mond skin.

    sirico,
    @sirico@feddit.uk avatar

    Not my screenshot but rainmeter is awesome

    Allero,

    This clock is available in Linux with KDE as a simple widget, without any external software

    (Sorry I had to bring it up)

    Szyler,

    What’s the name? I just started my Linux journey.

    Allero, (edited )

    Modern Clock, available to download through Edit mode widget menu

    9point6, do games w Begun the kernel wars have

    Isn’t Microsoft about to block kernel modules like this entirely? I thought I read that somewhere

    sirico,
    @sirico@feddit.uk avatar

    Yeah, to stop another CrowdStrike, but it’s not a sure thing, yet there’s talk of api’s etc and wouldn’t surprise me if certain companies got a pass. An article covering your point: theverge.com/…/microsoft-windows-kernel-antivirus…

    Korne127,
    @Korne127@lemmy.world avatar

    I hope so much that this will happen.

    fartsparkles,

    Nope. They’re developing an alternative set of APIs for userspace in conjunction with security vendors for their products to use but it’s all still a long way off and will be optional to start with.

    Given the volume of mission-critical devices security products are installed on (which the CrowdStrike fuckup highlighted), getting them out of kernel space would be a huge risk reduction for the world. And security vendors would love to get away from that risk as pulling a CrowdStrike costs a lot of money setting things right with customers.

    But an anticheat used by consumers on their personal devices for a game, not such a big deal.

    While I’m sure MS will eventually deprecate and then kill off third party kernel drivers, it could take a decade since MS has so much business (both internal and within their customer base) that relies on legacy crap.

    four,

    Yep, they’re planning to create a new way to do it, not disable the old way.
    And I think that a decade for disabling the old way is optimistic

    fartsparkles,

    I have a feeling you’re right about this. I do wish Microsoft would take the Apple approach as Apple steamed ahead with deprecating kernel-mode access.

    Love them or hate them, Apple take security a lot more seriously than Microsoft these days and it’s a real shame MS see security architecture as a nuisance rather than a core responsibility of their business.

    Passerby6497,

    it’s a real shame MS see security architecture as a nuisance rather than a core responsibility of their business.

    I’m pretty sure the reason behind this is that they treat backwards compatibility as a higher priority in a lot of cases. There are so many odd choices I see in my day to day that I can only explain away by backwards compatibility. It’s part of the reason you see them take forever to depreciate old and insecure protocols until they get an encouragement from a vuln hitting the news.

    four,

    That’s what I’ve noticed as well. They keep the old stuff around for as long as they can, because some software made 30years ago is critical to our society so they need to support it or we’re doomed

    HK65,

    Like Japanese trains being controlled by some Flash app

    frezik,

    And it’s not like the companies will update old stuff, either. They’ve shown a willingness to forget about old games as soon as the revenue dips too much. The result will be that those games will be unplayable in the future.

    captain_aggravated, do games w At the end of Portal 2...
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    spoilerSPAAAAAACE!

    PunnyName, do games w At the end of Portal 2...

    “With the lemons!”

    Nebula, do games w At the end of Portal 2...
    @Nebula@fedia.io avatar

    also portal 2 spoilerAlso Caroline is still in glados, if you listen to the credits song.

    MrScottyTay, (edited )

    Co-Op SpoilersBy the end of the coop story and it’s DLC you also realise that she’s still a lot softer like she is when accompanying Chell in the main game. She tries to pretend to still be ruthless and unfeeling but that mask falls off a few times.

    Edit: specified spoiler is for co-op

    Nebula,
    @Nebula@fedia.io avatar

    Never closed a spoiler again so fast. 😅 haven't played coop yet.

    MrScottyTay,

    Sorry, i should’ve specified it was co-op. I highly recommend finding a friend to play it though, it’s a great experience.

    Nebula,
    @Nebula@fedia.io avatar

    Thankfully I only read until coop. Didn't spoil me, it's all good.

    IceSoup,

    The coop is genuinely incredible

    MidsizedSedan,

    Man, now I want to play co-op more…

    I haven’t read the spoiler, but the fact that there is something that requires a spoiler tag makes it should a lot more interesting

    FuyuhikoDate, (edited )

    It took me Yeats to finish coop (because too much other games and being an adult sucks) but daaamn when we finished it, we had a blast.

    Hope ya get an Chance. It was very good :)

    SlartyBartFast,

    I needed William Butler Yeats to get thru the coop as well

    FuyuhikoDate,

    I hate my phone and lemmy for always pointing out that i didnt double check autocorrect… 🤣

    dukemirage,

    That’s also heavily implied during the game.

    PunnyName, (edited )

    During the game, yes.

    spoilerBut at the end of the game, when she replaced Wheatley, she indicates that she deleted Caroline because it made her soft. Chapter 9: The Part Where He Kills You
    “Ending Lines” section: theportalwiki.com/…/GLaDOS_voice_lines_(Portal_2)

    samus12345,
    @samus12345@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Sorry, fellas, she’s married…to science!

    TotallyNotSpezUpload, do games w At the end of Portal 2...
    @TotallyNotSpezUpload@startrek.website avatar

    I just got up at 5:30 am and misread it as Postal 2 - I was so confused for a few seconds. ;D

    Kolanaki, do games w Any good Android games that aren't roguelikes?
    @Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

    Xcom 2 has an Android port. It’s not technically a roguelike. 🤷‍♂️

    ascallion, do games w Any good Android games that aren't roguelikes?

    I love Duet by Kumobius. A real nice timekiller, in a similar vein to subway surfers in a way.

    omgbear,

    Great call-out, I love this game. Fun to just get in the flow and twist.

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