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DarkGamer, w Stadia's death spiral, according to the Google employee in charge of mopping up after its murder
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

Because everything ran locally at a datacenter, the real killer app of Stadia would have been a super-massively multiplayer game. There wouldn't be any problems with latency between game states, (any lag would be between the server and the console.) Imagine massive wars or mediaeval battles with thousands of participants. They never developed games that took advantage of what was unique about the platform.

merc,

AFAIK, MMOs keep all the game state on the servers already. The difference is that what they send to the client is key deltas to the game state, which the client then renders. Stadia type services instead render that on the datacenter side and send the client images.

With their expertise at networking and so-on, Google might have been able to get a slight advantage in server-to-server communication, but it wouldn’t have enabled anything on a whole different scale, AFAIK.

IMO, their real advantage was that they could have dealt with platform switching in a seamless way. So, take an addictive turn-by-turn game like Civilization. Right now someone might play 20 turns before work, then commute in, think about it all day, then jump back in when they get home. With Stadia, they could have let you keep playing on your cell phone as you take the train into work. Play a few turns on a smoke break. Maybe play on a web browser on your work computer if it’s a slow day. Then play again on your commute home, then play on the TV at home, but if someone wanted to watch a show, you could either go up and play on a PC, or pull out your phone, or play on a laptop…

DarkGamer,
@DarkGamer@kbin.social avatar

Larger massive multiplayer capability was one of the features Google was touting upon Stadia's launch:

Over time, Buser [Google’s director of games] says we should not only see additional exclusive games on Stadia, but also cross-platform games doing things on Stadia “that would be impossible to do on a console or PC.” Instead of dividing up virtual worlds into tiny "shards" where only 100 or 150 players can occupy the same space at a time because of the limitations of individual servers, he says Google’s internal network can support living, breathing virtual worlds filled with thousands of simultaneous players.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/6/18654632/google-stadia-price-release-date-games-bethesda-ea-doom-ubisoft-e3-2019

merc,

Sure, they claimed that, but it’s telling that nobody ever took them up on that.

Google’s internal network may be good, but it’s not going to be an order of magnitude better than you can get in any other datacenter. If getting thousands of people into the same virtual space were just a matter of networking, an MMO would have already done it.

A shard is going to be storing the position, orientation and velocity of key entities (players, vehicles, etc.) in memory. If accessed frequently enough they’ll be in the processor’s cache. There’s no way the speed of accessing that data can compare with networking speeds.

That doesn’t mean there couldn’t have been some kinds of innovations. Say a game like Star Citizen where there are space battles. In theory you could store the position and orientation of everything inside a ship in one shard and the position and orientation of ships themselves in a second shard. Since people inside the ship aren’t going to be interacting directly with things outside the ship except via the ship, you could maybe afford a bit of latency and inaccuracy there. But, if you’re just talking about a thousand-on-thousand melee, I think the latency between shards would be too great.

EnglishMobster,

You’d only be able to play with people local to you, in the same Stadia datacenter. If Stadia wanted to minimize latency, they would increase the number of datacenters (thus making fewer people per instance).

Tranus, w Nexus Mods Fine With Bigots Leaving Over Removed Starfield ‘Pronoun’ Mod

I’m finding it very difficult to phrase this comment. I want to share my thoughts, but I know that if I am perceived as a bigot, everything I say will be seen as something to be defeated rather than understood. But tiptoeing around the subject doesn’t convey my meaning any better. So please, give me the benefit of the doubt long enough to hear me out.

I think what nexus is doing here is inappropriate. Mods, by their very existence, give players choice. Even this one: it means players can now choose he or she or to not be asked at all. Nexus, by removing this mod, is exerting what influence they have to eliminate that choice.

Nexus has considerable influence. For many games, particularly Bethesda games, they are seen as the default and complete source of mods. When looking for new mods to install, most people wouldn’t bother checking other sites since everything is on nexus. If players aren’t aware a mod exists, in other words they are unaware an option exists, that hinders them from making that choice. Also, their vortex mod manager makes installing mods from nexus super simple. By removing the mod from their site, they are making installing the mod at least a little bit more difficult.

I have seen multiple people posit here that removing the mod is fine because it does something so silly and pointless that no one should care about it. But we all care about silly, pointless things from time to time. I have spent days comparing all of the ways of getting unified GTK and QT themes on my desktop to try and get them just right. That was entirely pointless. But I wanted it that way, so I made it that way. I don’t have to justify it to anyone, and neither do the users of this mod. Installing the mod will only affect their game, no one else even has to know about it. Nexus’ decision does effect other people. They do have to justify themselves. Removing the mod is telling people they must select a pronoun. If it is really so pointless, nexus shouldn’t have bothered removing the mod.

People also claim that the political implications made by the mod are dangerous, and must be suppressed. I know you’ll roll your eyes at me, but yes: I’m making the free speech argument. It really is important though. If we, as a society and as individuals, accept suppressing speech for it’s ideological contents, then we are begging the question: which ideas are ok, and which aren’t? The ability to control public discourse is powerful, and highly coveted by anyone who wants to bend society to their will. It has been done before, and we know how horrible the consequences can be. It is incredibly dangerous. Answering that question at all is only justifiable in the face of a comparable danger. Is the idea of not being asked one’s pronouns really a comparable danger? Nexus seems to think so.

Of course, free speech also protects Nexus’ right to control what they put on their platform. I am not saying they shouldn’t have that right. But nexus is a platform, not a person. They position their site not as a place for them to share their own content, but for others to share theirs. Any modification to the contents of their site is a modification to other people’s speech, not just Nexus’s. They ought to use their capability in this regard responsibly and sparingly. Their actions here are neither.

I thought that others here on Lemmy believed in the same principles I do. That people should have total control over their own software and activities with it. That neither corporations nor governments should take any action to unduly control what they do with their own property. The belief in FOSS and decentralization seemed to go hand in hand with that. But if something like this can make you all turn on those principles, then maybe the resemblance wasn’t even skin deep.

regbin_,

“Free speech” means you will not be captured by the cops because of your opinion. Private entities are free to enforce any restrictions they want on their site. If you disagree with them, simply stop using the site, like we did with Reddit.

steventrouble, (edited )

It wasn’t removed because of the pronouns though. It was removed because the mod description violated their community policies.

There are plenty of mods just like it that the site keeps up. Dozens of mods even remove black characters from games, which is way worse. The difference is, those mods don’t write long rants about how much they hate minorities and liberals in their descriptions.

Ookami38,

To be entirely fair, if it’s not the mods content itself, but the description, that got it removed, that should probably be clarified front and center. That’s a pretty big shift from the mod being removed based on it’s simple existence.

Mikina,

This finally explains it. I was about to write something similar as the comment you are replying to, because it did felt like a totally unnecessary PR stunt of another corporation that only exploits the issue for publicity, and I really hate that.

But if the mod description was as bad as you say, then removing it was the right move.

Astaroth, (edited )

It wasn’t removed because of the pronouns though. It was removed because the mod description violated their community policies.

There are plenty of mods just like it that the site keeps up. Dozens of mods even remove black characters from games, which is way worse. The difference is, those mods don’t write long rants about how much they hate minorities and liberals in their descriptions.

if that’s true then it makes sense

Edit: I just found out about the spider man pride flag removal mod debacle and read the official statement by Nexus Mods: www.nexusmods.com/news/14733

In regards to the replacement of Pride flags in this game, or any game, our policy is thus: we are for inclusivity, we are for diversity. If we think someone is uploading a mod on our site with the intent to deliberately be against inclusivity and/or diversity then we will take action against it. The same goes for people attempting to troll other users with mods deliberately to cause a rise. For our part, we will endeavour to do a better job of moderating our website to this ethos ourselves.

We aren’t the authority on what users can and cannot mod. Us removing a mod only means it cannot be found at Nexus Mods, nothing more, nothing less. We also note that we are not the only site that has removed this mod from their platform. As a private business, we have a right to choose what content we do and do not want to host on our platform. Respect this right the same way you want respect for your rights.

By Nexus Mods’ own words they will take action against anti diversity/inclusivity mods and actively take a stance on what kinds of mods are allowed on Nexus Mods.

So regardless of what the mod descriptions may or may not have said, it seems Nexus Mods would’ve deleted this pronoun removal mod as well.

These aren’t mods I would’ve bothered using (and I don’t even play these games either) but Nexus Mods trying to police what mods players are allowed to use is pretty shit.

The great thing about mods is they only affect the people who choose to get them and gives everyone more choices to change games to what they want, and I don’t think anyone should try to force what kinds of mods are allowed or not.

The whole point of modding is that you find something you don’t like or think could’ve been improved in some way, so you change it to your preference.

Saltblue,

The fact that you wrote that wall of text just to not get attacked speaks volumes of the current state of progressivism in this place, you can’t say anything and you are walking on eggshells.

And you know what? Fuck those dipshits.

PoliticalAgitator, (edited )

And are these “progressives” in the room now? No, they’re clearly not. Nobody is attacking him and he’s not even being downvoted.

He wrote the wall of text because he has the self awareness to know that the comment he is writing is functionally identical to what a far-right reactionary “hiding their power level” would write.

Saltblue,

What are you fuckin talking about? Are you are bot or something?

Saltblue,

He wrote the wall of text because he has the self awareness to know that the comment he is writing is functionally identical to what a far-right reactionary “hiding their power level” would write

This paragraph is the funniest shit I have read today.

PoliticalAgitator,

Yep, you’re exactly what everyone expected.

Saltblue,

Yeah sure I’m the boogeyman booooh, the irony is so delicious.

vivadanang,

if you’re having trouble comprehending what he wrote in a few sentences, perhaps your bot needs more tokens to parse what he’s putting out, for humans it’s incredibly straight forward.

Saltblue,

He edited his comment and added more, Sherlock

vivadanang,

If I’m Holmes what does that make you, Boebert?

Saltblue,

I haven’t been caught jacking off men in theaters in front of children, so I guess no?

Any more incredible witty remarks?

vivadanang,

I haven’t been caught

it’d be better for everyone if you just didn’t jerk them off in the first place, jeeze…

instead of waiting for enforcement and accountability take responsibility for your life.

Saltblue,

it’d be better for everyone if you just didn’t jerk them off in the first place, jizzz…

Fixed

vivadanang,

chortleworthy

WalrusDragonOnABike, (edited )

Did they edit your comment too where you quoted them?

In case you edit your comment, the quote was

He wrote the wall of text because he has the self awareness to know that the comment he is writing is functionally identical to what a far-right reactionary “hiding their power level” would write

Kirkkh,

Walking on eggshells vs having a weak stance to argue from isn’t the same thing

Rose,

Look up the paradox of tolerance.

uglyduckling81,

This is not a place of acceptance. This is a left wing echo chamber. You either tow the narrative or GTFO.

I think of myself as very moderate. I’m neither supportive of right wing horse shit or the lefts batshit insanity. I’ll get downvoted into oblivion every time for pointing out this place being extreme left, or for making any comment that doesn’t align strictly with the narrative taking points.

JackbyDev,

Literally enlightened centrism.

saze,

Yah, how dare someone not be a polarised momo and make me have to assess their pov without a convenient label with which to dismiss it.

MomoTimeToDie,

deleted_by_author

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  • saze,

    😄😄 No personal offence meant good sir.

    teuast,

    what exactly is the left’s batshit insanity in this instance? literally that the game lets you pick your pronouns?

    did you know that fallout: a post-nuclear role playing game (1997) also allowed you to do this? a few other games that have let you do this are fallout 2 (1998), mass effect (2007), fallout 3 (2008), mass effect 2 (2010), skate 3 (2010), the elder scrolls 5: skyrim (2011 and also every year since), mass effect 3 (2013), fallout 4 (2015), sonic forces (2017), mass effect andromeda (2017), cyberpunk 2077 (2020), trackmania 2020 (2020), and literally every other game ever to feature a character creator. if this is batshit insanity, then i can’t wait to find out what you think of unions.

    saze,

    Dude I thought reddit was leftist and then I came here. Funny thing is I’m a pansy lefty European (believe in social healthcare, UBI and all that good stuff) yet this place is a bit much for me.

    PsychedSy,

    I can deal with lefties a lot easier than r/politics types.

    saze,

    Great distinction.

    PsychedSy,

    Depends on the community. I have had reasonable results, but I do have to be extra careful. It probably helps that I’m kind of a stealth leftist.

    mindbleach,

    I think of myself as very moderate.

    You were wrong.

    Stanley_Pain,
    @Stanley_Pain@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    What narrative talking points? Gay people exist, trans people exists. There’s nothing political about that. If you think otherwise you need to adjust thinking of yourself as a moderate.

    Skcyte,

    I mean we already have seen this before with Marvel’s SpiderMan pride flag removal mod.

    barsoap, (edited )

    I think what nexus is doing here is inappropriate. Mods, by their very existence, give players choice. Even this one: it means players can now choose he or she or to not be asked at all. Nexus, by removing this mod, is exerting what influence they have to eliminate that choice.

    I don’t think you’re a bigot, but I also think you’re off the mark.

    First off, the mod has quite literally zero value. Installing it is more work than ignoring an option during character creation. I constantly ignore options I don’t care about during character creation, it really isn’t hard. It’s hard to interpret the intent of the creator of the mod, as well as its users, as anything else but being out for blood.

    That alone though isn’t a reason to remove the mod – Nexus is full of useless mods. But something neat happens when you do nuke the mod: Bigots come out of the woodwork, you can ban them in one fell stroke, and thereby lessen your moderation load in the long term.

    Last, but not least, the curse of neutrality aka the Nazi bar thing.

    Oh, EDIT:

    Removing the mod is telling people they must select a pronoun. If it is really so pointless, nexus shouldn’t have bothered removing the mod.

    You don’t have to select a pronoun. The default will match the phenotype of the body you select.

    Corkyskog, (edited )
    @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I am now totally confused as to what is even going on. After reading multiple top level comments, many responses and then reading the article (gasp I know… blasphemy) I can’t tell if conservatives are mad about pronouns being an option or not being an option. Many of the comments made it sound like they added pronouns, the way the article is written makes it sound like they removed the ability to choose pronouns.

    So which is it. Who is mad, and why exactly?

    Edit: Okay, maybe I understand now. Someone created a mod that removed pronouns. The place that hosts mod downloads, removed that mod from their list of downloads. Now people are mad it was removed. Do I have that right? If so, my only remaining question is if one were to use the mod, does it mean others not using the mod can’t see their pronoun(s)?

    Nath,
    @Nath@aussie.zone avatar

    I think this is the reply that prompted me to reply at the top of the post. Does your edit mean I was of some help? You appear to have the right of it, yes.

    As to your second question: what mod loadout a player has will have zero bearing on another’s experience. If one were to use the mod, others would not be affected.

    Corkyskog, (edited )
    @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Yes, I believe re-reading your comment (not sure if it was post or pre edit) finally made me put all the pieces together.

    If this is single player, the controversy is even more dumb than I had originally thought.

    Now I am curious what the default pronoun options are, and if you were able to skip choosing it entirely, or pick “other” or “none”?

    WalrusDragonOnABike,

    Apparently it defaults to the one matching your phenotype. The game gave you the option to change it if you felt like it. The mod removed that option and may have had a rant against the existence of LGBT+ people in its description and that description was the cause for removal (I can't verify since it was removed, but that's what others have said).

    Corkyskog,
    @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Does anyone know what the list is? Can you even choose they/them or xe/xem? Or is it just you could pick the inverse?

    WalrusDragonOnABike,

    "There are three pronoun options right now, He/Him, She/Her, and They/Them."

    barsoap,

    Selecting the sex of the PC has been a standard feature in practically every RPG with character creator ever, and definitely in Bethesda RPGs, what they added is an option to change pronouns the PC is referred to by NPCs from the default. If you want them to match you simply don’t touch that option, done.

    From a developer’s perspective it’s dead simple, similar in triviality as allowing people to mix+match any voice to any body type. Cyberpunk’s free choice of genitals needs some implementation care but if you’re planning for it from the start it’s also easy.

    Where things get more complicated is things like dresses for male bodies, especially if you don’t have any shape keys in place. But if you use one body mesh for everything and simply shape key it into male and female then it’s again no issue (you also need to lerp animations then, probably, male and female bodies walk differently because hips). Basically it’s hard if your asset pipeline is simple, if the pipeline is sophisticated it’s easy.

    SolOrion,

    If so, my only remaining question is if one were to use the mod, does it mean others not using the mod can’t see their pronoun(s)?

    It’s a singleplayer game. Nothing you do can have any effect on the experience other people have with the game.

    mindbleach,

    Removing the mod is telling people they must select a pronoun.

    No, it defaults to body type.

    This option is literally nothing to people who don’t care - and the people who care enough to dislike it, are assholes. They have their private reasons and their private reasons are bad. Bigotry is not an OK idea. We’ve had that discussion, it went very predictably, and it has a right answer. We don’t need to endlessly litigate whether we’ve been too harsh about demonstrable bigotry.

    A website saying ‘no thank you’ to an act of petty bigotry is a non-event. There is no fucking danger in moderation excluding that. That’s what moderation… is. That’s why we have human beings reviewing stuff, instead of offering an unfiltered pile of everything all the time.

    In this context of moderation: game modifications must successfully and safely do something useful. This fails on two out of three points. It successfully removes a feature. But that feature is easily ignored with no side effects or consequences, and the blindingly obvious motivation behind its removal is overt sexual prejudice. While safe in the sense that it won’t brick your computer, it’s plainly a threatening message to the people who use this feature - it is dehumanizing. It is treating the possibility of their existence as something intolerable, to be excised. To be physically removed.

    You can still install this stupid mod. It hasn’t been erased from reality. It’s just not approved on one website with clear rules against exactly that sort of thing. Making bad things harder to do is not some betrayal of your right to make terrible decisions. A lot of things that are possible have barriers for good reasons.

    And none of you grasping at freedom as an excuse to entertain bigotry seem remember - we all have a right to freedom of association. We don’t want to deal with that shit. You can’t make us, and still pretend you care about choice.

    SpaceCowboy,
    @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

    This mod is taking away a choice though.

    I’m pretty sure the vanilla game has the option to choose pronouns that conform to whatever your feelings about gender are. So choose that option and play the game.

    Why should Nexus devote resources to a mod that removes options from a game? There’s no point to this mod for anyone that’s of sound mind. The only reason for it’s existence is some petty bullshit from people that hate trans people so much they will install a mod in a feeble attempt to feel like they hurt people in some small way.

    WalrusDragonOnABike,

    If the mod just totally skipped character creation and the goal was to just save time, I could see the purpose. But its clearly not there to save anyone time; its just there as an excuse to tirade against certain demographics for existing.

    AWittyUsername,

    No it’s not, you have the choice not to download it it’s not forced upon you.

    SwampYankee,

    I’m pretty sure the vanilla game has the option to choose pronouns that conform to whatever your feelings about gender are.

    If you’re a hardcore heteronormie, congrats, the default behavior of the game conforms with your worldview. Simply choose a male or female body, and don’t even touch the pronouns. They’re automatically what they’re “supposed” to be.

    ISOmorph, w Steam’s latest hit is a generic F2P co-op third-person shooter – but not the one that launched last week

    From the vids it looks like a carbon copy of warframe. Might as well stick with the more mature product with a record of acceptable community interaction.

    CorrodedCranium, w Weekly what have you been playing discussion - week of September, 18, 2023
    @CorrodedCranium@leminal.space avatar

    I’ve been playing Max Payne 3. It stopped working at the end of Chapter 6 on my PS3 so I found a completed save and started playing it on my Steam Deck from where I left off.

    Also Cyberpunk 2077. I avoided it up until now partially due to how buggy it was at release and how things like the police mechanics were still lacking. Keanu Reeves being in the game was another thing. I find celebrity worship really off putting and based off of Reddit’s reaction I kind of assumed that would be a bigger part of the game with lots of obnoxious winks to the audience. I just got started but the game seems neat so far. I like the atmosphere a lot.

    Perfide, w Need for Speed developer Criterion to focus on Battlefield

    Fuck Battlefield, I want a sequel to Burnout Paradise :(

    CouldntCareBear, w New Xbox controller with swappable battery spotted in huge Microsoft leak

    Swappable batteries and gyro controls. Good stuff.

    maxprime,

    Accelerometer ≠ gyroscope

    CouldntCareBear,

    Huh, you’re right. I must’ve caught a misleading headline then.

    maxprime, (edited )

    I made the same mistake. The Verge misreported. What a shame.

    Rentlar, (edited ) w No love lost: AppLovin helpfully releases tool to switch from Unity to Godot or Unreal

    When a company doing scum-of-the-earth work like mobile ads is in a more charitable position than your company’s, you done fucked up.

    TheMorningStar, w Need for Speed developer Criterion to focus on Battlefield

    Again? This is like CoD taking up all the air over at Activision with every studio playing support over there every year. What is DICE doing?

    nyoooom,

    DICE, with the current management, is not able to deliver a proper Battlefield game.

    I hope that EA is not too much at fault either, else it won’t be much different with another studio.

    azurefirefly, w Microsoft completely misjudged Baldur’s Gate 3
    @azurefirefly@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar
    p03locke,
    @p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Wat?

    JohnDClay,

    I think one of the love interests is a druid shape shifter…

    AWittyUsername, w Nexus Mods Fine With Bigots Leaving Over Removed Starfield ‘Pronoun’ Mod

    Sorry this is stupid all round. People are stupid for getting annoyed that you can set pronouns in a game, but Nexus are stupid for removing the mod that allows players the ability to if THEY wish to choose so.

    Nexus just hosts the mod, if anybody is offended they could just not download it.

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    Hosting implies complacency. They have to draw a line somewhere, and the longer they wait, the harder it becomes. This was obviously a bigoted mod, and even though it could be considered “harmless” to leave up, it leaves the door open for further mods. These bigots will not stop slowly eroding away features they think are “woke”, and they will only get worse and more egregious. Stopping them now, letting them know it’s not acceptable behavior, is the only way to end it.

    librechad, (edited )

    Hey bud, don’t tell me how I should play the game I spent my hard earned money on. If I want to remove a certain feature I don’t like, you and I both should have the freedom to do so.

    samson,

    You have the freedom to do so. Start your own hosting site or learn to code. Nexus doesn’t have to host shit they want to. Stop being a bitch and forcing those to do what you want.

    librechad, (edited )

    What I was trying to convey is that gamers should have the freedom to customize their gaming experience based on their preferences. It’s not about forcing anyone to do anything, but rather having the option to make changes if we want to. It’s all about personal choice and freedom in how we enjoy our games.

    Removing a harmless mod is a slippery slope because then moderators are just removing mods based on their political ideolagy. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    I love that you are so dense that you are arguing for the freedom of choice, while trying to take away other’s freedom of choice. Fucking hell, bud.

    librechad, (edited )

    When a mod is removed entirely, the choice is taken away from everyone, limiting the overall freedom for customization. The aim should be to find a balanced approach that respects both individual freedom and community guidelines.

    I acknowledge they have a freedom not to host the mod. But, coming from someone who’s used Nexus Mods for the past 6-7 years, it’s sad to see them start to take this route. We can have a mod to kill children but god forbid we have a remove pronouns mod.

    I’m stating my own opinion on the situation, I’m not forcing them to reupload the mod. I’m just trying to debate with you guys. Would you like to debate or no?

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    No, I would not like to debate. Debating would be futile. I’ve looked through your comment history, and I don’t believe that it would be worth my time. You want to bitch and complain cause the woke police are coming after your vidyas, then go for it, but you are on the wrong side of the argument, and you won’t find many good-hearted people over there. Life is hard enough as it is. I implore you to rethink your positions on pronouns, gender identity, and sexual identity. Those that appreciate choices like these in the game are the people that are having some of the hardest times in their lives. They don’t need you to come in and tell them that you feel like their decisions aren’t valid, especially when it has zero actual affect on your life. Don’t want to set a pronoun? Then fucking don’t. That’s your choice. But when you support mods and the bigots that create them that try to limit the abilities of those that need to have some comfort in their life, those that need to know that society is moving towards a broader acceptance of their identity, then you are the bad person, and that’s how the world at large sees you. Be a better fucking person than that.

    librechad, (edited )

    I agree that platforms like Nexus Mods have a responsibility to consider the broader societal impact of the content they host. However, they also have a responsibility to preserve the freedoms that have made such platforms valuable to so many. The challenge lies in finding a balanced approach, which is never easy.

    It’s worth mentioning that I fully support your right to view and critique mods based on their societal impact. At the same time, it should be acceptable for others to evaluate these mods based on different criteria, such as user freedom, without being labeled as “bad persons.”

    Would it not be more constructive for us to have an open dialogue on how to balance these competing interests rather than dismissing each other’s viewpoints outright?

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    Would it not be more constructive for us to have an open dialogue on how to balance these competing interests rather than dismissing each other’s viewpoints outright?

    No, I don’t want an open dialogue with bigots.

    librechad, (edited )

    OK fine, I don’t want to argue with someone who’s obviously closed minded and can’t debate on simple issues.

    Keep it classy bro.

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    Fine. We’ll keep it simple and set the facts. I’ll even let you define the problem. Tell me. What does this mod do?

    samson,

    There’s no slippery slope. It’s a hosting site and they can host what they want. If you don’t like that go mod and upload to your heart’s content on another site. You have that personal choice and freedom. They have choice and freedom to tell you to fuck off just like I do. Fuck off.

    InEnduringGrowStrong,
    @InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Removing a harmless mod is a slippery slope because then moderators are just removing mods based on their political ideolagy. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

    Removing a harmless feature is a slippery slope because then modders are just removing features based on their political ideology. Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

    It’s just as ridiculous the other way around though.

    librechad, (edited )

    You’re point is valid about the two-way street that is ideological moderation, whether it’s done by modders or platform moderators. While some argue that removing certain features serves to make a political statement, the same could be said for removing mods themselves. Both actions can be seen as influenced by the ideological beliefs of those making the decisions. In this case, the main question is: who gets to decide what crosses the line and what doesn’t? And should these decisions be open to discussion within the community?

    AreaSIX,

    You’re still free to remove what you don’t like, but you’re not entitled to have the mod hosted on any site you want. The site owners decide that, and they don’t want it on their site. That’s not infringing on your freedom, but forcing it to be hosted on their site would indeed infringe on the site owner’s freedom.

    kazakhspy,

    We can play the slippery slope game both ways. You say: if you dont remove a harmless mod, then bigots will start adding harmful mods.

    I say: if we let moderators remove harmless mods because of their political ideology, they will start removing more and more mods that are not made by bigots, but disagree with moderators politics. Like for example, if player wants to play as a billionaire and exploit poor workers.

    How about instead of playing the slippery slope, we just deal with actual harmful mod as they come. I mean, ffs, there is a mod that lets you kill children in Skyrim. Is removing pronoun selector really worse than that?

    mindbleach,

    I mean, ffs, there is a mod that lets you kill children in Skyrim. Is removing pronoun selector really worse than that?

    Yes.

    The people this bigotry hurts are not in the game. They’re real. And they’re the only possible target of removing a checkbox that most people won’t even notice.

    mindbleach,

    We can play the slippery slope game both ways.

    And be wrong.

    One way is how trolls always escalate, because their entire fucking deal is pissing people off for attention.

    The other is a textbook fallacy that plainly has not happened, since the last time Nexus removed some right-wing bigotry signal. This is not the first time. This won’t be the last time. The line will stay about where it is, because they don’t want to deal with this woe-is-us horseshit unless they have to.

    chemical_cutthroat,
    @chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

    You see, there’s the problem. You have politicized gender and sexual identity. Don’t bring your politics into the natural world.

    Voroxpete, (edited ) w Seeking Constructive Dialogue on Mod Removals: Stereotyping Doesn't Help

    You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nr, nr, nr.” By 1968 you can’t say “nr”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nr, nr.”

    • Republican strategist Lee Atwater.

    Atwater’s point here is that dogwhistles work, and they’ve been a core strategy of regressive bigots for decades.

    Today’s hateful bigots understand that they can’t openly say “I want to legislate trans people out of existence, even if that means they all die.” So they engage in layers of abstraction, and wrap their abstractions up in leftist talking points. They claim to be defenders of “free speech” even as they support laws that empty out libraries of books, remove shows from television or make discussion of anything LGBTQ related impossible online.

    So to you, the innocent rube, removing a pronoun selection from a game might not sound like an attack on trans people, but it very much is. The mod was a rallying cry, a call to fellow bigots to express themselves while pointedly saying to every trans person watching “You are not safe. We are here, we hate you, and we want to erase your existence.”

    The existence of the pronoun selector impacted them in absolutely no way, shape, or form. There was nothing to be gained from its removal other than the statement it made, the proud declaration of their hatred encoded in a language of abstraction that made it visible only to their allies and their targets.

    And the fact that they can get away with this; the fact that they can openly torment their chosen victims while the average idiot pats them on the head and calls them a “victim of censorship”… That’s their favourite part.

    librechad,

    I understand the concept of dog whistles and the historical usage of coded language to advance certain agendas. My primary concern here is not the mod itself, but rather how moderation decisions are made and the criteria used. If we can’t openly discuss these topics, it’s hard to determine what is or isn’t acceptable. I’m not advocating for intolerance; I’m advocating for clarity in community guidelines.

    ninjan, w This is Microsoft’s new disc-less Xbox Series X design with a new gyro controller

    I hate flowery language like “now adorably all digital”. What the fuck is adorable about it being all digital?

    Zeus,

    the same way that removing a headphone jack is courageous, i guess

    dependencyInjection,

    I mean based on the backlash one could argue it was courageous no?

    Zeus,

    yeah i guess i can’t argue with that…

    stopthatgirl7,
    !deleted7120 avatar

    Y’know, I can’t think of a lot of adjectives to use for “all digital,” but “adorably” sure af is not one of them.

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS,

    Then you have Steam.

    Player2,

    You’re not stuck to only Steam on a computer, whereas you are stuck on a console

    PM_ME_FEET_PICS,

    What the fuck are you even trying to say?

    Steam is entirely digital only.

    Player2, (edited )

    Yeah. But guess what, you can buy a disk drive. You can install another game launcher. You can even pir-[removed].

    There are inherently more options on PC than there are on a console.

    CmdrShepard,

    I think it’s a reference to it’s smaller size.

    ninjan,

    Then go “now smaller, adorable, and all digital” or something that doesn’t sound completely daft.

    DrQuint, (edited ) w Stadia's death spiral, according to the Google employee in charge of mopping up after its murder

    I will never, ever, understand why Stadia was something thay had to be “ported into” at such high cost. Specially for games that were ALREADY working on Linux. Like, what the fuck was the hold up. I read up stories that it was basically like porting to a fourth console and that just sounded outrageously stupid in my head.

    Whatever tech stack they had, they could have made it way more profitable by making it generic windows boxes that partially run your library elsewhere. I dunno if there’s some hubris or some licensing bullshit behind it, but fact is, if I want to do this on GeForce Now, I can do it, no questions asked, and as the costumer, that’s the beginning and end of my concerns.

    redcalcium, (edited )

    Google engineers always choose the hardest route to solve problems. Why wouldn’t they? If your products are going to be shutdown in a few years anyway, might as well have a glowing resume from working on those products (resume-driven development).

    Think about it, every time Google made a product with sensible tech stacks, those products were actually started outside Google and later bought by Google (Android, YouTube, etc). If Google made Android from scratch, there is no way they’ll use java and Linux, they’ll invent a new language and made their own kernel instead (just like fuchsia os which might be canned soon).

    anemomylos,
    @anemomylos@kbin.social avatar
    • Kotlin: "are you talking to me?"
    hesusingthespiritbomb,

    Kotlin was made by Jetbrains and later adopted by Google.

    sznio,

    But Kotlin is actually an improvement over Java.

    Golang thoooooo

    atocci,

    TIL Fuchsia hasn't been killed quite yet.

    smeg,

    Does it actually even exist? I feel like I’ve been getting whispered rumours about it for years and years, but never anything sold!

    atocci,

    Yes! Nest Hub devices run it

    smeg,

    Oh wow, I’ll have to have a read up

    merc,

    might as well have a glowing resume from working on those products (resume-driven development).

    This is so true. Getting promoted requires showing impact. If you use off-the-shelf tools (that happen to be easily maintainable) that’s not an impressive impact. If you invent a new language (and make up a convincing reason it was necessary) and so-on, that’s really impressive and you can get promoted. The minefield you leave behind that makes maintaining your solution so difficult is just another opportunity for someone else to get promoted.

    Zeth0s, (edited )

    Only Microsoft can run decently windows in a decently big data centers. Because they can tweak it, as they do for Xbox os as well. For everyone else scaling windows server VMs or containers is a pain, because windows is a bad, poorly optimized, resources-hungry OS developed with main goal to make hardware obsolete every 3-5 years.

    I don’t know what nvidia is doing, but when I use it at my friends’ places, lags are painful.

    Linux was the right call in theory, in practice gaming industry is pretty broken on the PC side with its lock on windows, as we see on every new AAA port… Let’s hope valve can save it, but I doubt.

    smeg,

    I don’t think the people downvoting you have ever experienced the pain of dealing with Windows in a cloud environment

    Pxtl, (edited )
    @Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

    No, we’re downvoting because of conspiracy theories about planned obsolescense.

    Yes, it’s disappointing how hardware requirements climb for minimal appreciable improvement, but Hanlon’s Razor applies.

    Zeth0s, (edited )

    It is not a conspiracy though. Planned obsolescence is a well known real thing. There is a reason unix computers last on average longer than windows computers, and Linux is the stereotypical OS for old pcs.

    If people are downvoting for this, they should learn how computers and operating systems work

    Zeth0s, (edited )

    Don’t worry, I was expecting the downvotes. This place is full of angry windows fan boys that believe they are tech expert because they watch ltt and can install a skyrim mod. Less than reddit luckily

    Astroturfed,

    The thing was clearly designed to force you into paying a subscription fee. You can’t let people have something they could possibly easily use and play games that aren’t on your subscription if your entire purpose is to milk a monthly subscription from the users. Google, fuck you capitalism woohoo.

    chaorace, w Relogic: Makes a statement on Unity and donates 100k to Godot and FNA with a further 1k a month moving forward.
    @chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    A stand-up move from Re-Logic. You love to see it when the people at the helm of a lucrative publisher are industry stakeholders rather than the all-too-common quarterly cash extractor types[^1].

    [^1]: Yes, I am all too aware that such seemingly altruistic gestures can be calculated PR moves in disguise. I certainly understand that this move will earn them (as a publisher) brownie points with various indie studios who may just so happen to be seeking publisher funding in the wake of an expensive mid-project engine switch. Such is the way of the world; sometimes a move can be simultaneously altruistic and good business.

    fmstrat,

    Getting brownie points for doing a good thing is not inherently bad.

    LaggyKar, w This is Microsoft’s new disc-less Xbox Series X design with a new gyro controller
    @LaggyKar@programming.dev avatar

    I hope it actually has gyros, so XBOX can finally get gyro aim. I don’t play on XBOX, but maybe support for that in XBOX controllers would make devs more inclined to support it. But the document only mentions an accelerometer.

    Also, what’s up with controllers dropping face button colors? The PS5 did the same thing.

    hikaru755, (edited )
    @hikaru755@feddit.de avatar

    Also, what’s up with controllers dropping face button colors? The PS5 did the same thing.

    From an aesthetic standpoint it just looks better^1 , and by now gaming consoles are so Mainstream that the additional accessibility the colors offer is not a good enough reason to keep them anymore.

    ^1 subjective, of course, but if you look at modern, big corporate design a lot of it is trending towards minimalism, very little use of color, etc.

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