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danielhanrahantng, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?

Just random level design. And permadeath I do not think it’s necessary.

danielhanrahantng,

Or random layout

Kolanaki, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?
@Kolanaki@pawb.social avatar

What makes a game roguish?

  • Random level design
  • Death is permanent
  • Turn based gameplay
  • Grid based movement

Most modern roguelikes tend to only have the first two of these, tho. But those are the 4 main elements of the original game for which the genre derives its own, Rogue.

And Rogue-lites tend to make progression persist after death, at least partially. Such as with the unlockable weapons and things in Hades, while the boons and other abilities are pick ups you only have until death untill you pick them up again the next run.

HubertManne, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?

Its sorta funny hearing the term for me because I can’t away from thinking about ascii dungeon crawls when I hear roguelike.

Itdidnttrickledown, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

Breed for your dictator russia. Produce meat shields at maximum efficiency.

vga, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

To simplify things a bit: companies exist to make money, that’s their prime directive. Governments exist to make and enforce rules.

If Steam is allowed to operate freely in Russia, the government is not doing its job.

CileTheSane, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

The popularity is because they are easy to pick up and put down. If I want to go back to an RPG that I haven’t touched on months I need to try to remember where I was going, what my build was doing, and how to deal with the things I was fighting. If I want to go back to FTL that I haven’t played on years I just start a new run anyways, and all my ship unlocks are there if I want them.

Ephera,

I would argue that a substantial reason for their popularity is also just that devs have fun when developing them.

With most other genres, you’ve seen the story a gazillion times, you’ve done each quest a thousand times etc… It just gets boring to test the game and it becomes really difficult to gauge whether it still is fun to someone who isn’t tired of it.

Meanwhile with roguelikes, the random generation means that each run is fresh and interesting. And if you’re not having fun on your trillionth run, that’s a real indicator that something needs to be added or improved.

lvxferre, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

There are a thousand definitions and mine is just one among many, I’m aware. This is not a “right vs. wrong” matter, it’s how you cut things out.

For me, a roguelike has four rules:

  1. Permadeath—can’t reuse dead chars for new playthrus.
  2. Procedural generation—lots of the game get changed from one to another playthru.
  3. Turn-based—game time is split into turns, and there’s no RL time limit on how long each turn takes.
  4. Simple elements—each action, event, item, stat etc. is by itself simple. Complexity appears through their interaction.

People aware of other definitions (like the Berlin Interpretation) will notice my #4 is not “grid-based”. I think the grid is just a consequence of keeping individual elements simple, in this case movement.

Those rules are not random. They create gameplay where there are limits on how better your character can get; but you, as the player, are consistently getting better. Not by having better reflexes, not by dumb memorisation, but by understanding the game better, and thinking deeper on how its elements interact.

I personally don’t consider games missing any of those elements a “roguelike”. Like The Binding of Isaac; don’t get me wrong, it’s a great game (I love it); but since it’s missing #3 (combat is real-timed) and #4 (complex movement and attack patterns, not just for you but your enemies), it relies way more on your reflexes and senses than a roguelike would.

Some might be tempted to use the label “roguelite” for games having at least few of those features, but not all of them. Like… well, Isaac—it does feature permadeath and procedural generation, right? Frankly, I think the definition isn’t useful, and it’s bound to include things completely different from each other. It’s like saying carrots and limes are both “orange-like” (carrots due to colour, limes because they’re citrus); instead of letting those games shine as their own things, you’re dumping them into a “failed to be a roguelike” category.

pruwybn,
@pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

So would you consider Slay the Spire and Balatro to be roguelikes? I think they meet these four criteria.

lvxferre,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

Slay the Spire: yes. All four rules are there, specially in spirit. It’s also a deck-building game but that’s fine, a game can belong to 2+ genres at the same time.

I’m not sure on Balatro. I didn’t play it, so… maybe?

StitchInTime, do gaming w Why are there so many bloody roguelikes or roguelites, and what really makes a game roguish?

You ask an excellent question, one that I feel you already know the answer to. From my understanding, the term is unfortunately broadly overused for any procedurally generated game, to the point where the original meaning has been lost to time.

colournoun,

How many gamers today have even played or know what the original Rogue is?

Malgas,

Not enough. Omega, ADoM, Angband, Crawl, and Nethack are roguelikes. Nearly every game mentioned in this article is a roguelite.

jansk,

I would agree with this definition. If the game does not visually resemble Rogue even a little at a glance, in what sense is it “like” Rogue

JillyB,

Man I wish we had better terminology for this type of game. Roguelike and roguelite give the same energy as “Doom-clone” for every fps in the 90s. Later we called them FPS games. That genre has since been refined into tactical shooters, arcade shooters, milsim, etc. Meanwhile, we’re still stuck calling all games that have randomized runs “rogue-likes”. Being pedantic about the definition doesn’t make this situation better.

swelter_spark,
@swelter_spark@reddthat.com avatar

My bf calls all isometric action RPGs Diablo rip-offs.

Treczoks, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

So Steam is still doing business in Russia? I actually thought they were better than that.

demonsword,
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

Corporations are amoral things. Money is money, it has no frontiers.

CosmoNova, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

How and why do they even access Steam? The Internet and Computers aren‘t „traditional ways“ of communicating and video games are not „traditional ways“ of entertainment. Do they reject modern medicine too for being „non-traditional“? Seriously out of all the anti progress bullshit, this is the dumbest aspect.

njm1314, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

I don’t really know why they feel they need to Cave to Russian pressure here. They have all the cards. Russia will never ever stop Steam from running in Russia. If they try to cut off Counter-Strike the entire country would collapse immediately. I’m 100% serious that is not sarcasm at all.

ChaoticNeutralCzech,
@ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org avatar

What’s preventing Russians from hacking Counter-Strike and making their own “Кантр-Страйк” servers?

cepelinas,

Exactly nothing.

ChaoticNeutralCzech,
@ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org avatar

I mean, there’s DRM but that hasn’t stopped them ever before…

Do they stand to lose something if they switch? I don’t understand CS:GO economics, maybe there is a sanction-evading money flow via weapon and skin trading on Valve’s servers?

Truscape,

Unlikely? There are 3rd party websites that allow liquidation, but that’s all outside of Valve’s sites. The closest you can get to liquidation officially is buying Valve hardware like a Steam Deck with your store credit, but they don’t ship steam hardware to russia.

ChaoticNeutralCzech,
@ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org avatar

I wasn’t saying the exchange for money happens on Valve’s servers, but it’s Valve who oversees everyone’s inventory. You could hack the game and run a third party account server and give yourself all the knives but they would not be recognized by Valve and thus worthless, unless you convince exchanges that your server is trustworthy and has assets behind it.

Truscape,

Ah in terms of the Steam inventory API, it’s completely unregulated. All purchases are steam platform only, but trades between players are unmonitored (with the exception of requiring both sides to authenticate the trade).

yucandu, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

Email Gabe, here:

gaben@valvesoftware.com

I did back in 2015 when I was an edgy idiot, upset about their removal of the game Hatred because it is literally a spree shooting simulator. And I was all like “free speech”. And Gabe actually replied! And put the game back up too.

So email him. He might reply.

SkaveRat,

I mailed him about some completely random bullshit something like 20 years ago

And he actually replied a couple days later (even if with only a short sentence)

Whostosay, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”

Nontraditional sexualities huh? Pretty sure being gay happened way before Russia or any previous nation on that land

5too,

That was my first thought - aren’t homosexual relationships documented in Greek and Roman culture, among others?

That sounds very traditional to me!

Mwa, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”
@Mwa@thelemmy.club avatar

“In Russia”

Well ig government pressure

e8d79, do games w Valve block Steam game with queer art in Russia after state censor attacks it for “promoting non-traditional sexualities”
@e8d79@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Why are they doing business in Russia?

Truscape,

They started their business in there a while ago (I believe they were the first online distributor who managed to succeed in the Russian market, despite media fears of mass piracy), and I would imagine that revoking all of the users’ Steam Libraries wouldn’t be a popular move, or terminating all their accounts.

I’m not sure why they continued purchases after 2022 though. Maybe their Eastern Europe payment processor doesn’t ask too many questions?

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