I don’t think there were much if any attempts to make a petition in the US. If I recall correctly, Ross spoke with a lawyer who told him the chances for a positive outcome are close to null which is why he decided to focus on other markets - mainly: Australia, Brazil, Canada, EU, France and UK.
The failed petition mentioned was in UK, just like this one, but was canceled due to early elections. EU petition is still going, with a little bit over 6 months left, while Australian and Canadian ones closed last year. There was also a push to contact the local consumer protection agencies in Australia, France and Germany since they seem to have the tools to look into the issue as well.
One of the big problems about the original petition was that it had a focus on gaming. But this is a problem in the entire software industry, and as much as gaming is probably the more serious concern for the majority of people, it is considered by the government to be somewhat unimportant. Corporate software though has a more mature image, and so is more likely to be considered.
Any software that is sold by a company should be open sourced if the company chooses to end support. Either because the company goes out of business or because they just decide it’s no longer profitable to continue updating the software, and yes, this does include older versions of iOS.
These petitions are limited in scope for a reason - this is a small initiative and the goal is to focus on one part of the market which started the whole thing (the initiative, not the software killing issue), as well as to limit the number of big companies that could be affected (the potential opposition).
Sure, ideally this would expand on all software but you have to start somewhere, especially when you’re just a bunch of randos with little knowledge about law and no funds to turn it into a serious lobbying movement - one that could both get the political attention and was able to defend its stance from corporations.
Identity is a many-layered thing, and I’d never describe myself as British unless very specifically prompted to do so, but I can at least sign that. 5,071 let’s go!
I wish some big-name YT/Twitch personality helped raise awareness for the petition. It’s ending in a few months and if nothing changes, I don’t see it reaching the required signatures in time.
It’s not going to get the signatures because the average person does not care about this. I play a lot of games and even I don’t care. If you don’t like the game, don’t buy it. Why does there need to be regulation to stop me from buying it too?
The government should update consumer law to prohibit publishers from disabling video games (and related game assets / features) they have already sold without recourse for customers to retain or repair them.
If a company says they’re going to disable a video game a year after I purchase it and I won’t be able to retain or repair it and I agree to those terms, can I still buy it?
Depends on the territory. The argument is that the practice as it stands now is against current consumer laws in places like the UK. Functionally, even if they were forced to provide this disclaimer, it would still lead to the current state of things being less lucrative and would discourage the practice anyway, which I would still call some kind of a win.
Who would buy cigarettes? Who would buy a Cybertruck? Who would buy meat? Just because you wouldn’t choose it doesn’t mean it’s a choice that must be banned.
As it stands now, it’s difficult for the consumer to make the informed choice that you can make with any of those. And the comparison is that you’d prefer cigarettes that didn’t cause cancer, because they absolutely have the ability to make cigarettes that don’t cause cancer in this metaphor, but they choose not to because they believe they stand to make more money the way things are.
Currently, they don’t even give you that choice. They’re the ones making that decision. Sure, you can buy it, but you don’t get to decide if you want to play their game longer than they want you to.
Not sure what you mean. Companies dont tell you beforehand that they are going to shut games down. They usually dont even know they will, so I dont see how your example holds up here. Maybe you could explain.
This is about companies shutting down games after some time making them unplayable, even for people who already purchased them. Its like if Samsung would remotely lock your TV making you unable to turn it on again because they stopped “supporting” it.
There is simply no way to justify it. Its a symptom of greed, they dont want you to own a product that doesnt generate them revenue anymore.
Companies dont tell you beforehand that they are going to shut games down. They usually dont even know they will, so I dont see how your example holds up here. Maybe you could explain.
But what if they did? Some places have already put laws requiring sellers to inform purchasers if they are selling a licence instead of ownership. If the terms were clear at the point of sale, and I agree to the terms, what’s the issue? You’re allowed to think it’s a bad deal, but why does that mean I’m not allowed to accept it?
Its like if Samsung would remotely lock your TV making you unable to turn it on again because they stopped “supporting” it.
Right. If they explained that at point of sale they would be doing that, and I was alright with it, what’s the problem? I understand you wouldn’t accept that deal. That’s fine. You wouldn’t buy that TV. I don’t see why I must be prevented from buying it too.
Sure you could require them to inform the user. It would still require a change in law. I would personally stand against it because what you propose is the bare minimum needed to maintain legal status while maximising corporate comfort and minimizing user experience. It would be a law purely made to help companies exploit users.
Companies shouldnt be allowed to take completely absurd counterproductive (in the greater sense) measures just for the 0.01$ higher profit. If companies would behave like people in maintaining a healthy relationship with the law, this wouldnt be a problem. Fact is, many companies do everything in their power to get as close to the fine line separating immoral from illegal as possible to maximize profit (also more often than not straight illegal but hard to prove).
You know about squatters rights? Its the same phenomenon, except imagine 10% of the population doing it. Im pretty sure the law would change in a heartbeat. Companies have no moral compass, no shame or sense of dignity, thats why they need especially strict and explicit laws keeping them in check.
Also, to your last point: You would not be prevented from buying it. You would simply buy it under user friendly conditions. Noone would stop you from just not playing the game after a year if thats what youre concerned about. I dont see why it would have to be shut down for that.
Yes. Such a transaction would be legally classified as a service: You pay publisher a one-time fee for access to the right to play their game over a known period of time.
No company ever sells games with the disclaimer that they might stop supporting those games at some arbitrary point in the future they sell the games with the understanding that you are purchasing a product that you will own after you give the company the required amount of money.
They are not selling you a limited term license, they are selling you a product. They should not be allowed to then change their minds after the fact without compensating the customer.
Even if you just looked at the screenshot it’s pretty clear that’s not what the petition is about. Could you go away and do literally one seconds worth of research, and then come back and explain why you made such a brainless comment.
Dude you don’t get it, the AAA devs will literally go bankrupt if they have to waste a fraction of their profits to do the bare minimum!!! Why won’t anyone think of the children???
That too would have costs associated with it. Nothing is free when you do it at work, but it’s reasonable to impose those kinds of costs to ensure the products they make meet a base standard.
When reaching out to politicians, a MUCH better angle might be devices that get the same treatment, and then just make sure video games and other software get included.
Example: Fitbit and other purpose-built devices. A TON of functionality goes down when they shutter their servers. To the point where some devices immediately become e-waste.
These companies are literally producing toxic garbage.
Gamers don’t need to be protected from bad games because gamers don’t need good games. Anything that’s a real good or service should obviously be more regulated.
Why does this response just feel like it’s a restatement of what people already have the right to without addressing if they’re taking any action or not? Their mobile phone example even remains usable, whereas a lot of these games do not.
It’s an online petition. If petitions actually had the power to change anything, they wouldn’t let you sign them. The response will always be some mealy-mouthed rubbish.
Frankly, this isn’t anything to do with the government anyway, nor should they be getting involved.
Frankly, this isn’t anything to do with the government anyway, nor should they be getting involved
It kinda does though. The only way you’re going to force companies to keep their old games available is through laws. Companies will only release source code when they take down their online games if legally compelled. They will only release source or keep on steam old off-line games they don’t want to keep up if they are legally compelled.
And honestly, it seems like the bare minimum to give the community the resources to keep playing a game when you’ve decided as a company it’s too old and you want to move on from it.
The campaign is not about getting source code. Though it’s sort of the ultimate way to preserve a game, it’s too high a bar to clear, and in most cases, it’s not even necessary.
Why is that too high of a bar to clear? I’m not saying every game should be open source from day one (and tbh I think the people who say all software should be free have their head up their ass. People worked on it, some people want to get paid for that work).
However, how does it hurt Ubisoft to wait 5 or so years after shutting down the crew, then releasing the source code? By then, anything relevant to a competitor looking to ape off them, or a bad actor looking to cheat or carry out an attack would be irrelevant, and it would at least give the community a chance at creating something from the leftovers (even a dummy server that doesn’t allow multiplayer, but just lets the game pass any “can I connect to the master server” checks, kind of like what the Single Player Tarkov mod does).
I mean, Doom is the prime example. Would people care anywhere near as much about Doom if it never went open source? It would be a great game, but it would probably no longer be relevant. I can’t see that as being a bad thing for most companies (although I’m perfectly aware that the suits of major game studios will never see it that way).
I don’t think they need to release the source code. They could pay some developers to edit the functions of code that contact the server to work offline, or more preferrably, just release compiled binaries for the server so that consumers can run their own private servers after the game officially hits EoS.
Some companies reuse code from previous games in their new games, in fact I’d say it would be stupid for them not to. Obviously if they released source code then they are making it that much easier for cheaters in their newer games.
The effect that open sourcing a game would have on cheaters is basically propaganda as far as I’m concerned. Cheating has not and will not be defeated by making a game closed source or even installing rootkits on players’ machines. However, open sourcing a game isn’t necessary to keep it alive after sunsetting it either.
The best way to stop cheaters is to program the game to be Server Authoritative with Client-side Prediction. If the server does all the math for checking damage, whether someone hit something, speed and position, etc, then the client cannot cheat those values no matter how hard they try. The server will tell everyone else the correct values and the cheater will keep getting reset to what the server says is true. The only kind of cheats you can use on a game like that would be aimbot or wallhacks. But both of those can often be detected using anti-cheat software which acts like a rootkit. So a combination is most often used.
Like I said, I don’t think open source is necessary. If the server binaries are released, then people can run their own private or join someone else’s by IP, just like online games used to work in the 90’s. That is plenty good enough for consumers to keep using what they paid for and takes zero effort on the part of the developer. Its just the reason they don’t is a combination of what I said before and the publisher wanting you to stop playing the old stuff and only buy the new stuff. Nintendo is notorious for this, and one of the reasons my strong dislike for them has been growing.
The only kind of cheats you can use on a game like that would be aimbot or wallhacks. But both of those can often be detected using anti-cheat software which acts like a rootkit. So a combination is most often used.
I’d hardly call that defeating cheating, and a rootkit anticheat, while overstepping boundaries in what is acceptable to be done on your own PC, still can’t detect those cheats powered by external hardware, including aimbots. The difference in results between a closed source game with this server authoritative design and an open source one is moot. It’s a bad excuse. It doesn’t mean I’m going to fight too hard for all games to go open source when there are way bigger fish to fry though.
You’d have to change how the laws for all of software work to make that a reality, not just video games. And all that’s technically needed to make games work after support ends is a distributed server binary and a change to a client config file to point to it. The engines that games are built on are often not open source, so you’d change the entire business model of the likes of Unity and Unreal (Unreal’s source is available to developers but not “open”). Sometimes source code can even get lost, because it’s not strictly required, just in the way that computers work, to come attached to a compiled executable. The world would be a better place if all video games were open source, and I don’t think open source games are at odds with making a healthy profit (as Doom illustrates), but I think you’d have an insurmountable task of making the entire industry agree to it, as well as a certain amount of the consumer base that drinks the PR kool aid about why games need to stay closed source.
That last statement seams a bit misguided. The without government regulation, cars wouldn’t have such long parts and repair support. Why shouldn’t video games and other products be treated the same?
Because cars are a useful tool made up of physical parts that can wear out, while games are an entertainment product made of ever-changing software. You need a car. You don't need video games.
Because that’s what it is. I think some of it might have to do with the limited content of the petition itself (a pretty short description about “customers being robbed” without any broader ideas suggested by the campaign) and some with the fact they get plenty of petitions so the first reaction is to stick with what’s already there. That’s my guess at least.
I hope that if this petition reached 100k signatures and went to a parliamentary hearing there could be a chance for a more nuanced presentation of the topic but who knows, maybe I’m just being naive.
petition.parliament.uk
Najnowsze