lemmy.world

Noodle07, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Wow classic hardcore, I just can’t stop playing it. I’m even leveling as one of the worst spec in the game just because.

smort,
@smort@lemmy.world avatar

What spec? I leveled as a holy priest in vanilla, and in retrospect I think that might be the worst way to level haha. Maybe resto Druid would be worse?

Noodle07,

I’m playing balance druid!

CharlesDarwin, do games w This should be illegal
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

This really sucks when you have to explain this kind of thing to your kids…

ipkpjersi,

That’s the horrible thing about online services. You never really own it, it can be taken away from you at any time. If you want to preserve something, you need physical and/or offline access.

doctorcrimson,

And in addition to that sentiment, compression from moving or sending a copy of a copy is known to very slowly degrade digital media, so physical is almost always preferred.

ipkpjersi,

As long as you are very serious about your backup system, digital can outlast physical.

doctorcrimson, (edited )

Sure, it’s possible, but it’s unlikely. A properly kept laserdisc compared to, for example, a YouTube Video isn’t even a competition. Physical media not exposed to radiation or impact can last decades if not centuries. Don’t even get me started on Vynil.

millie,

Piracy is a pretty great backup system for everyone. You’re welcome.

doctorcrimson,

Somebody somewhere is archiving it or it has the same problem.

millie,

Literally every seeder is part of that archive. You can look at individual trackers in the microcosm as individual archives and indices, but it’s the culture of piracy that causes the wide scale collection and preservation of media.

We’re actually at this kind of interesting cross-generational point of guerilla archival where it’s become easier to find certain obscure pieces of media history. I suspect this is in large part due to things like bounties, where suddenly a forgotten VHS of a 35 year old HBO special that aired once or twice could be a step toward a higher rank and greater access to a wider range of media.

Modern piracy has a strong incentive toward finding lost material that’s no longer readily available. Zero day content is great, but have you seen the RADAR pilot or both seasons of AfterMASH?

They belong in a museum. Indie would be proud, even if Harrison wouldn’t. Not that I know his perspective on piracy.

doctorcrimson,

Constantly moving compressed files are not the same as a physical media archive, literally the entire point of this discussion.

millie,

Are you here to repeat that nonsense about file transfer being lossy?

doctorcrimson,

Are you here to repeat that nonsense that parity loss doesn’t exist in your world?

millie,

Th s is hila ious. Wait, w t’ ap e i g? c n’t ead y r p st!

Naz,

I have a folder on my D: called OLDINSTALL.

It’s my entire hard drive from 1996, including DOS.

I think it’s a couple hundred megabytes in size, but the vast majority of the files and games were exclusively in floppy disk format.

I don’t have a floppy drive or any disks anymore.

Flax_vert,

Games don’t get lossy compressed when sent. They aren’t films or photographs.

JackbyDev,

Also even if you’re using lossy compression you don’t recompress things every time lol.

doctorcrimson,

If you use most digital formats for media and compress them with something like .7z or Winrar, then it might take years or decades to noticeable degrade, but it is still a matter of when not if.

CeeBee,

Holy crap. File compression is not the same thing as lossy media compression.

File compression uses mathematical algorithms to create definable outcomes. Meaning it doesn’t matter how much you compress/uncompress a file, it will always be exactly the same.

5 X 2 will always give you 10 and 10 ÷ 2 will always give you 5.

lightnegative, (edited )

Err, no. Lossless compression is lossless and there are a bunch of techniques to ensure that a copy is bit-for-bit identical to the original

JackbyDev,

Nah

Honytawk,

It is literally the other way around.

There is no way for digital media to degrade, unless it is the physical media.

doctorcrimson,

Compression and transmission of data causes loss of parity. We lose or flip some 1s and 0s. Over time the effects become very noticeable. The best visual example I can think of are experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times, it very quickly degrades. In a more reasonable scenario, near lossless file types and compressions would degrade much more slowly.

pikmeir,

You’re referring to a video codec degrading as it keeps rendering the video again, not just copying and pasting the bits. There is no degradation from copying and pasting a file as-is.

doctorcrimson,

No, I am not referring to that. YouTubers have the option to download their own videos. Not steal it with a video downloading tool.

bitwolf, (edited )

That’s YouTube’s processed video not the original.

doctorcrimson,

And when you download the processed video and reupload it, it’s a 1 to 1 conversion of the same video codec, and every generation it gets worse. That example is a low hanging fruit, but the concept applies to everything.

pikmeir,

No, this is because YouTube compresses every file before distributing it. This happens even when downloading on the creator side.

doctorcrimson,

Literally every file distribution method compresses the media first. A better argument was that YouTube re-encodes the video during the re-upload with a particularly lossy method to save on bandwidth and server space.

bitwolf,

That 1:1 conversion through the same codec is very likely lossy. However that’s not a straight file copy which is what you originally said causes degradation.

doctorcrimson,

You really jumped in here to tell me exactly the contents of a comment I made just below it in the thread, as if I didn’t already know it.

bitwolf,

I jumped in to point out the flaw in the YouTube experiment you’re referring to.

doctorcrimson,

Can you think of a better visual example that a simple person could see and understand?

bitwolf,

Imo, an easy way to remove YouTube’s postprocessing from the equation would be to copy a video file to and from a nas or other computer several times and compare it with the untouched file.

chicken,

experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times, it very quickly degrades

That just means Youtube’s software uses lossy compression, that is a Youtube problem, not a digital media problem. Are you familiar with the concept of file hashing? A short string can be derived from a file, such that if any bit of the file is altered, it will produce a different hash. This can be used in combination with other methods to ensure perfect data consistency; for example a file torrent that remains well seeded won’t degrade, because the hash is checked by the software, so if anyone’s copy changes at all due to physical degradation of a harddrive or whatever other reason, the error will be recognized and routed around. If you don’t want to rely on other people to preserve something, there is always RAID, a 50 year old technology that also avoids data changing or being lost assuming that you maintain your hardware and replace disks as they break.

Here’s the fundamental reason you’re wrong about this: computers are capable of accounting for every bit, conclusively determining if even one of them has changed, and restoring from redundant backup. If someone wants to perfectly preserve a digital file and has the necessary resources and knowledge, they can easily do so. No offense but what you are saying is ignorant of a basic property of how computers work and what they are capable of.

doctorcrimson,

It’s the most obvious example of a digital media problem. Computers might be able to account for every bit with the use of parity files and backups with frequent parity checks, but the fact is most people aren’t running a server with 4 separately powered and monitored drives as their home computer, and even the most complex system of data storage can fail or degrade eventually.

We live in a world of problems, like the YouTube problem, compression problems, encoding problems, etc. We do because we chose efficiency and ease of use over permanency.

chicken,

Computers might be able to account for every bit with the use of parity files and backups with frequent parity checks

Yes, and this can be done through mostly automatic or distributed processes.

even the most complex system of data storage can fail or degrade eventually.

I wouldn’t describe it as complex, just the bare minimum of what is required to actually preserve data with no loss. All physical mediums may degrade through physical processes, but redundant systems can do better.

but the fact is most people aren’t running a server with 4 separately powered and monitored drives as their home computer

It isn’t hard to seed a torrent. If a group of people want to preserve a file, they can do it this way, perfectly, forever, so long as there remain people willing to devote space and bandwidth.

We live in a world of problems, like the YouTube problem, compression problems, encoding problems, etc. We do because we chose efficiency and ease of use over permanency.

All of these problems boil down to intent. Do people intend to preserve a file, do they not care, do they actively favor degradation? In the case of the OP game, it seems that the latter must be the case. Same with Youtube, same with all those media companies removing shows and movies entirely from all public availability, same with a lot of companies. If someone wants to preserve something, they choose the correct algorithms, simple as that. There isn’t necessarily much of a tradeoff for efficiency and ease of use in doing so, disk space is cheap, bandwidth is cheap, the technology is mature and not complicated to use. Long term physical storage can be a part of that, but it isn’t a replacement for intent or process.

doctorcrimson,

I wouldn’t describe it as complex, just the bare minimum of what is required to actually preserve data with no loss. All physical mediums may degrade through physical processes, but redundant systems can do better.

I think you didn’t read correctly on the statement about the most complex system failing. I’m not saying that is the most complex system, I am saying the most complex system will fail.

It isn’t hard to seed a torrent. If a group of people want to preserve a file, they can do it this way, perfectly, forever, so long as there remain people willing to devote space and bandwidth.

LMAO at the idea of comparing every bit of every portion of every seeder’s copy with each other simultaneously and then cross referencing every parity file to be doubly safe, and then failing to see the chance of loss of parity during transmission of said files even after that. I will admit it would take a lot longer for a torrented file to degrade than some other forms of file distribution, but it’s not going to last for a thousand years, mate.

chicken,

I am saying the most complex system will fail.

And I am saying complexity has little to do with it and also that a system can exist that will not fail.

it’s not going to last for a thousand years

Specifically why not? What is unrealistic about this scenario, assuming enough people care to continue with the preservation effort? All nodes must fail simultaneously for any data to be lost. The probability of any given node failing at any given time is a finite probability, independent event. The probability of N nodes failing simultaneously is P^N. That is exponential scaling. Very quickly you reach astronomically low probabilities, 1000 years is nothing and could be safely accomplished with a relatively low number of peers. Maybe there are external factors that would make that less realistic, like whether new generations will even care about preserving the data, but considering only the system itself it is entirely realistic.

doctorcrimson,

Specifically why not? What is unrealistic about this scenario,

Read the above conversation to find out.

CeeBee,

The best visual example I can think of are experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times

This has nothing to do with copying a file. YouTube re-encodes videos whenever they are uploaded.

A file DOES NOT DEGRADE when it is copied. That is something that happened to VHS and cassette tapes. It does not happen to digital files. You can even verify this by generating a hash of a file, copy it 10,000 times, and generate a new hash and they would be 100% identical.

doctorcrimson,

You should perform that exact experiment with a sufficient number of bits, you’ll be surprised.

CeeBee, (edited )

No I won’t be, because I’ve done this before for various reasons, but not a single but was changed.

Let me put it this way. A computer stores programs and instructions it needs to run in files on a drive. These files contain exact and precise instructions for various components to operate. If even a SINGLE bit is off in just a couple of the OS files, your computer will start throwing constant errors if not just crashing entirely.

And this isn’t just theory. It’s provable. Cosmic rays have been known to sometimes hit a drive and cause a bit-flip. Or another issue is a drive not being powered on for a long time causing bit-rot

At this point I’m starting to think you’re a troll. There’s no way someone believes what you’re saying.

Edit: autocorrect

doctorcrimson,

I’m going to stop responding to you few left in this thread because I don’t think you’re trolls, I know you are.

CeeBee,

Then you’re not a troll, just completely deluded and frankly stupid. You’ve been getting so many genuine responses trying to help you learn, but you keep digging in your heels and doubling down on being confidently wrong.

Believe whatever you want, just keep it to yourself.

doctorcrimson,

They want to “help me learn” that a form of media storage invented and refined within a couple of decades will outlast all other forms, because they’ve deluded themselves that the things they rely on are perfect and that failure is impossible.

CeeBee,

What you’re talking about is 100% unrelated to what the discussion is about. The media the files are stored on are irrelevant. USB flash drives are known to die within just a couple of years in some cases. But when the storage media itself fails, then the data on it is more is less lost. And that includes degradation of the medium itself. That’s why both spinning hard drives and solid state drives need to be powered on and “refreshed” every so often (about a year for solid state and roughly a few years for magnetic). And degradation in this context means beyond the point where each bit can be reliably and accurately read from the medium. Once you go past that point you end up with corrupted data. And that includes pictures and videos. A raw picture probably won’t be affected too much with a single bit flipping, but a jpg for example, will visibly look corrupted. This is what a corrupted jpg looks like. And it can occure with just a single bite or byte being incorrectly changed/saved jpg1 jpg2

And here’s an example of corrupted video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-bz21deEeY

All it takes is a single corrupted byte in either the b-frame or i-frame in a video and it will cause that momentary glitch. That’s what happens when data “degrades”. Digitally copying a file absolutely does not “degrade” data each time it is copied. The idea is just laughable. We aren’t talking about copying a VHS tape.

keyez, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Almost done with Metro Exodus, love the series though Exodus is dragging on a bit in the last acts or missions IMO. Next up is Gears 5 since it was on sale and I’m a sucker for GoW and Cyberpunk 2077, finally picked it up on sale last week.

tables,

I recently played Metro Exodus and I felt like it was a drag at the beginning of the game instead. It was one of the few times in my life in which 1 hour into the game I was so bored I was googling whether the game would eventually get going and become fun. The story "twist" at the beginning felt extremely rushed and out of nowhere and it sort of put me off. But as the game got going I got very into it and I was the one "dragging" it by doing every secondary objective.

keyez,

I had a hard time with the first hour or two initially I think I had to start it 3 times, then really enjoying things but now that it’s about to get to the 3rd/4th area where they arrive and are like go get this for is Artyom we’ll all be waiting I’m kind of over it even though the new areas do have a lot of diversity.

CubitOom, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Armored Core 6 and Minecraft.

Both on Linux, Armored Core 6 works flawlessly with proton. But Minecraft needed some more work.

I just finished modding Minecraft java edition on Linux with fabric to use my Nvidia card appropriately and it is running the smoothest it ever has at 60 fps, 128 bit resource packs and very high settings on my shader. Fabric is so much better than optifine in terms of performance, just wish it was a bit easier to install.

cevn,

What shader pack you got? Im on Linux as well but havent found the right one yet.

CubitOom,

complementary unbound

And here is my exported settings for r5.0.

If using the same version, save as a file named ComplementaryUnbound_r5.0.zip.txt

And paste in the following to import but I would suggest you play around with it.


<span style="color:#323232;">shadowDistance=224.0
</span><span style="color:#323232;">CLOUD_STYLE_DEFINE=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">AURORA_CONDITION=4
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_NOON_R=0.85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">WATER_STYLE_DEFINE=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_COLOR_MULTS=true
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_END_R=0.85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">BORDER_FOG=false
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_FOG_MULT=0.65
</span><span style="color:#323232;">UNDERWATERCOLOR_R=85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_NIGHT_R=0.85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">LIGHTSHAFT_QUALI_DEFINE=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">WATER_QUALITY=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">UNDERWATER_DISTORTION=false
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_MORNING_R=0.85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">LIGHT_COLOR_MULTS=true
</span><span style="color:#323232;">CLOUD_QUALITY=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">ATM_RAIN_R=0.85
</span><span style="color:#323232;">WAVING_I=0.75
</span><span style="color:#323232;">NIGHT_NEBULA=true
</span><span style="color:#323232;">GENERATED_NORMALS=true
</span><span style="color:#323232;">SELECT_OUTLINE=4
</span><span style="color:#323232;">SHADOW_QUALITY=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">DETAIL_QUALITY=3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">WAVING_SPEED=0.70
</span><span style="color:#323232;">BLOOM_STRENGTH=0.045
</span><span style="color:#323232;">WATERCOLOR_R=85
</span>
vettnerk, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

I gave in to the hype and bought BG3. And this is the first time in ages where I’ve bought a brand new AAA game and not been disappointed.

I have a brand new PC, so it’s about time I ran something more demanding than Factorio on it.

Nilz,

Factorio is a pretty demanding game as long as you play long enough

vettnerk,

I know. I have an angelbob megabase save that clocks in at 788MB. To play it I need to add an additional 16GB of swap. I figured that it was about time the GPU did some heavy lifting too.

Tom_bishop, (edited ) do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Work has been busy, so i played Call of Duty DMZ after work for some short relaxation. Been doing for months, kinda getting good at it. 6 days ago i was shadowbanned for killing to many players who probably reported me. Now i’m getting matched in high ping >200ms lobby. I swear I’ve never use hack or hardware cheating things. So i uninstall and start getting into Titanfall2

WhiteHotaru, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Baldurs Gate 3 was released on Friday on Mac. I played the preview and some hours on parallels and am glad now I can play natively now.

My problem is, this world is to big. I like role playing my character, even if it is not optimal. I read every dialogue and think: “what would Hsslek (my Githyanki Dragonborn Wizard) do?”

The great thing is, after around 50 hours I now have a picture of my character. A curious mind, not always fitting into Githyanki society, but counting on the Githyanki Warrior who shares his fate and is becoming his lover.

gvtterslvt, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Playing Starfield. I love exploring and I love the atmosphere. The least buggy launch I’ve seen from Bethesda. It’s great.

I wanna get back into AC6 and try my hand at pvp but every time I try I get nervous and chicken out. If anyone knows of a place for noobs to hangout, chat, and learn the game please let me know.

moldyringwald, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023
@moldyringwald@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve been putting some serious hours into No Man’s Sky the last few weeks. Lately I’ve been getting pretty hardcore about F-Zero 99 as well

HubertManne, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

I loaded up a cyperpunk save to mess with the new perks. Liking air dash and autocamo.

desmosthenes, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023
@desmosthenes@lemmy.world avatar

still going on with Path of Exile

Vex_Detrause, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Space Engineer with “Ares at War” mod. Just starting out so it’s a grind but a relaxing grind.

Morkitymork, (edited ) do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023
@Morkitymork@kbin.social avatar

Spread thing due to work, but the wife and I are still doing the weekly tower for Minecraft Dungeons, and then playing Minecraft Java with the family. I need to find a better way to maintain 4 different computers with different OS's with our mods though.
Also finally going at a snail's pace at Baldur's Gate 3 due to time constraints.

Also got party animals, it's pretty fun with 4 player local matches. Kind of a pain to set up currently but in small sprints it is fine.

thorcik, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023

Finally got 2077 running on Linux, now waiting for Phantom Liberty and CET update to get all my mods working ;) Need to build on those 500 hours.

Also, I started Greedfall. Lots of running around but so far it’s solid.

Coelacanth,
@Coelacanth@feddit.nu avatar

Oh man, I had such a great time with Greedfall a couple of years ago. It has a lot of jank, but you can see the heart beneath it all and I really enjoyed the world building. The fact they consulted with linguists for their invented language and created a custom accent they made sure all the VAs for natives use was a great touch.

It’s not a AAA game, but if you take it for what it is you can have a great time. I’m really looking forward to the sequel.

Carighan, do games w The Weekly 'What are you playing?' Discussion - 25-09-2023
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

I just finished playing the System Shock Remaster yesterday night after ~22 hours. I could still do everything from memory pretty much, and it remains an amazing game to this day, especially with the slick fresh paintcoat from the remaster.

Now I’m exploring Shadow Gambit a bit. Always loved the Commandoes games, and this is the third - and sadly final - Mimimi game that copies the gameplay verbatim. And from the little I’ve played so far, it’s fantastic. Having actual supernatural characters fits the abilities really well, and the voicework is done tremendously well, too.

tables,

I tried to play the original System Shock two/three years ago but gave up at a stage that felt very close to the end. I basically had a save at a weird spot, when I was low on ammo and anything else useful, right between two complicated rooms. I reloaded a ton of times and always died trying to go forwards or backwards before giving up.

Anyway, would you recommend System Shock Remaster for someone who likely almost completed the original one, gave up, but still liked it overall? Or is there something shockingly different about the original's ending I'll be missing?

gaylord_fartmaster,

I’m not the person you replied to, but I also finished the remake recently after having tried and failed to finish the original a few times over the years (I love SS2) and I would absolutely recommend it. I do think the original has a better final boss/ending but neither really has much to it. I’m pretty sure Nightdive said they’re planning on reworking the ending again, maybe before the console releases.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, it’s a very faithful remake - after a lot of back-and-forth of them considering changing the game more they ended up making a near 1-to-1 graphics update.

So I would recommend it. There are some parts that are made more challenging. Inventory management is a big one. OTOH that makes sense, as the modern controls enable *far more accurate combat and hence saving ammo is somewhat easy and you can easily use the shotgun or the magnum as staples.

I basically saved teflon ammo whenever I found it (dumped it all near the cargo lift) then before entering level 8 retrieved my modded Scorpion from there with nearly 1500 ammo and just went to town with that + leftover shotgun shells. But the drops are also changed, so both teflon bullets and magnesium ones for the Assault Rifle still commonly drop in the final few areas.

And of course, taken from the main game, EMP grenade into berserk-stim Laser Rapier is always an option and kills even the toughest enemies in the game before they recover.

That being said, one specific thing is annoying: Beta grove now deals constant and quite significant damage even with the enviropack on. You have to rush rush rush it, luckily it is brief. Other than that, it’s neatly improved, modern graphics with a cool retro-effect from the nearest-neighbor filter, modern controls and combat and some better and more convenient HUD, redone audio including new recordings from Terri Brosius (SHODAN), they also completely redid cyberspace. While I like the original, I can see why most did not, so I really don’t mind this part.

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