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Zima, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable

Hopefully this becomes a case study of how not to antagonize your customers when launching a product.

thingsiplay, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable
@thingsiplay@kbin.social avatar

I'm not surprised.

NightOwl,

I’m surprised since I’d assume most people don’t care where games are from and just buy it from whatever launcher. At least that’s what people claimed throughout the years.

skulblaka,
@skulblaka@kbin.social avatar

I don't think anyone has claimed that ever. Having all my games spread across 8 different libraries is a pain in the ass. Having Steam plus Blizzard's Battlenet launcher was already pushing it in my opinion and I dropped them too after Overwatch 2. (Which, hilariously, is also now available on steam anyway).

espiritu_p,

to disagree slightly: there were many different stores and lunchers before Epic even existed. Apart from Steam I have bought games and other digital goods on Gog, Humble and the now- extinct Desura. While totally avoiding the stores from companies as Ubi or Ea because they just suck.
Having an addititional account wasn't the big issue. There were already attemts to integrade several libs into one launcher, and if not you can at least run the start commands for that games out of steam.
What was sucking from the beginning was that arrogance of this sweeny guy, his promises of hot air, and his telling us of being the great saviour for all developers - while we as paying custemers were fed up with this bad launcher that is still missing every user interaction.
In the end not even the developers have profited from the store. Sales are not as promised, and in order to release a game on this platform sweeny blackmails you to give away older titles for free.

BudgieMania, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable

In my eyes, part of the reason for this is that they forgot a key element of penetrating a market... you need a potential customer base that is actually displeased with the current available solutions and is actually looking for an alternative. And, by and large, the current storefronts had done a good enough work of pleasing their customer base that, when the Epic Store rolled out, few people were actively looking for a switch, to the point that no bonuses or goodies or exclusives that Epic offered could outweight the friction of moving from a platform that was perfectly serviceable, please and thank you.

The whole thing was just mistimed. They should have waited to see if Steam committed some sort of fuck up. They should have waited for some type of negative sentiment. I don't know. I know that developers did feel displeased with some of the conditions on Steam, but Epic could only do so much to win them over with 88%'s and paid guarantees and what have you, when they couldn't offer them the most important thing: a paying customer base.

LinkOpensChest_wav,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

I was never happy with Steam. It always seemed bloated with unwanted features that had nothing to do with playing a game, constantly wanted to run in the background and update, launched at a snail’s pace.

I’ve found myself liking EGS a lot more because it’s clean and simple.

Both are owned by big gross corporations, so really I’d prefer no launcher at all.

Gordon_Freeman,
@Gordon_Freeman@kbin.social avatar

launched at a snail’s pace.

If speed is a problem, The EGS is painfully slow. I don't use is because it needs like 15 seconds to load the library (and it's just the part that is on screen if you scroll, it needs more time to load the games), in the rest of the launchers is practically instant

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

There are problems with Steam that a competitor could win customers from by solving those problems, but they didn't bother. They only went after the people producing games, not buying games.

plistig,

People who don’t like Steam already have GoG. To most people Epic Games is the fortnite launcher, and fortnite is in rapid decline:

https://imgur.com/a/aZ7J4iG
www.statista.com/…/fortnite-number-viewers/

ripcord,
@ripcord@kbin.social avatar

As much as I like GoG, it doesn't really solve any problems that Steam has that I can think of. In fact, in several ways it seems like they've gone backwards in the last several years, imo (as a launcher/storefront alternative)

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

DRM-free games is already a big one.

Mini_Moonpie,

My understanding is that GoG does some work to make sure that old games they sell will work on new PCs. I have at least one game that is bugged on Steam, but works fine from GoG.

skulblaka,
@skulblaka@kbin.social avatar

When I bought Vampire the Masquerade from GoG it came pre-bundled with the primary community bugfix patch, I thought that was pretty neat. It didn't come baked in, so they still give you the base version of the game, but I pretty much just checked a box on install and it added it on.

Mnemnosyne,

Yep. I have not and will not give epic store money because they didn’t try to make a better product.

In fact they attacked me as a customer, in essence, by offering a worse product but then paying for exclusivity on various games. And in exchange they try to bribe me with free games.

Well, I’ll take the bribes, as I try to remember to collect my free games each week, but I’m not giving them money.

Vilian,

but at the same time steam have a fuckton of features, it take tine to implement everything

Zorque,

It does take time, but when you launch a product that's missing basic features (like a shopping cart, something almost every online store in existence has) you tell on yourself to your customers, and let them know they're not a priority.

I don't disagree that Steam's feature rich platform makes it hard to compete with on that level... but for fuck's sake, at least try a little bit. Especially if your first move is to say they're unfairly gaming the market by... providing something people want.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Yeah, it will. But start with the most important features while also building some of those features that solve problems.

TommySalami, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable

I think I’d be more surprised if it was profitable. Anecdotal, but I (and most people I know) exclusively use Epic for free games.

plistig,

They gave away so many good games … and in doing so taught their target group not to spend money to buy games on their platform. Outstanding move!

NightOwl,

When I saw Alan Wake 2 was an epic exclusive my immediate thought was I can just wait for a giveaway like they did for Control.

espiritu_p,

exactly that was my thought on Borderlands 3.
And after gatting it for free my realisation was that it even is the worst part in the whole series. Not bad, but the story isn't that overwhelming as the stories in BL1 or BL2 had been.

mateomaui, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable

Have to wonder if they would actually be totally fine if they just didn’t have to pay out such huge legal expenses in lawsuits, and for enormous settlements, and had just played it straight with customers, and just accepted Apple and Google’s fees.

Gordon_Freeman,
@Gordon_Freeman@kbin.social avatar

Epic do not has economic issues, they earn a shitton of money between Unreal Engine licenses and Fortnite. It's only the Epic Game store and the issue is not the legal expenses is that nobody spends money in their store

IIRC the data they show every year says on average each users spends like $15 per year

Caligvla, do gaming w Epic Games Admits In Court That Its PC Store Still Isn't Profitable
@Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

With the way they’ve been handling things it won’t ever be profitable.

mojo, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

Good ass year for gaming, we don’t get to say that too often

Turmbaumeister, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

It is but perhaps because the last few years were just lacking any great games. For me there wasn’t a single title better than 9 out of 10 since DOS2 until this year.

Everyone had just been dumping pseudo big, pseudo long open worlds with a boring story. And the main strategy games are ruined by corporate greed with countless DLCs (just check EU4 price with dlc).

This year though: Lies of P, BG3, FFXVI, F1 23, just great and I still have lords of the fallen to play.

toxicbubble420, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

our standards also went down over time

Templa, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

Nobody in this thread mentioning Pikmin 4 💀

Renacles, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)
  • Starfield
  • Baldurs Gate 3
  • Remnant 2
  • Hi-Fi Rush
  • Street Fighter 6
  • Lies of P
  • Alan Wake 2
  • Laika: Aged through Blood

The list just keeps going, it’s been an insane year so far.

AdellcomdoisL, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

This article coming out on the same day as another wave of layoffs, this time from Bungie, is an excellent view on the state of gaming criticism. Even if it were the best year for the products (there are several titles in the article that are curious), it’s definitely one of the worst years for the people who work on them.

I hope the current wave of unionizing keeps manifesting and spreads to the gaming industry, because this situation is dire and it’s only getting worse.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Even if it were the best year for the products (there are several titles in the article that are curious), it’s definitely one of the worst years for the people who work on them.

For sure. As an armchair analyst, it seems to be the result of getting out of the era of cheap credit and VC money. I don't expect it to get worse, but I do think live services and enormous open world games ran out of money spreading their customers across too many games.

Dark_Arc,
@Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

Just wait until the Discord VC really starts to squeeze

strongarm,

I’m not sure the worst year is specific to game developers though, the whole world is under economic squeeze, take a look at the layoffs in the tech industry.

1984, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Strange. I can’t find anything good to play.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

What kinds of games are you into?

Conyak, do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)

This is definitely a matter of opinion. There have only been three games this year that I have been excited about which hardly constitutes the best year for gaming in awhile.

Faydaikin,
@Faydaikin@beehaw.org avatar

It was only one for me, Baldur’s Gate 3.

So yeah, very much a matter of opinion.

Conyak,

Baldur’s Gate 3, Spider-Man 2, and Super Mario Wonder were mine.

stargazingpenguin,

You’re doing better than me! I’ve not seen anything this year that I even remotely thought about purchasing. I’m glad that some people are enjoying this year’s releases though. It’s always interesting to me that writers assume that almost everyone automatically loves every hyped game.

DebatableRaccoon,

What are you into? A game I’m looking forward to is releasing tomorrow (October 31st) yet I only know of it because of Steam’s demo event. It’s called Jusant and I’ve heard absolutely no hype for it.

stargazingpenguin,

The games that I tried for the first time and enjoyed this year were:

  • Circuit Superstars
  • Mafia: Definitive Edition
  • Uncharted: A Thief’s Legacy Collection

Then the games that I tried and didn’t like:

  • Gotham Knights
  • Horizon Zero Dawn
  • Red Dead Redemption 2
  • Spider-Man Remastered

Games that I would be excited about if they were announced/launched:

  • Kingdom Come 2
  • Uncharted: The Lost Legacy 2
  • XCOM3

My all time favorites list that I keep coming back to is currently this:

  • Age of Empires II
  • American Truck Simulator
  • Civilization V
  • Endless Sky
  • Euro Truck Simulator 2
  • Farming Simulator
  • Just Cause 3
  • Kingdom Come: Deliverance
  • Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
  • Rise of the Tomb Raider
  • Stardew Valley
  • Tachyon: The Fringe
  • The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind
  • The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
  • XCOM2
ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

You've got RPGs and strategy/tactics games listed as some of your favorites, but Baldur's Gate 3 never caught your eye? How about Starfield or Cyberpunk, or the early access game Dread Delusion? Given tactics games and an interest in MGS, you could check out the Metal Gear collection or Shadow Gambit: The Cursed Crew (or Shadow Gambit's developers' previous games, Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun and Desperados III, which I think I like better than Shadow Gambit). There's Wargroove 2, if you like the Advance Wars brand of tactics. It's 2D, but given your interest in other space games, you could take a look at another early access game (not on Steam) Starsector that a friend of mine got really into.

There's just so much out there this year that I'm not sure who'd be left unhappy.

stargazingpenguin,

Something like Baldur’s Gate 3 could be an enjoyable game for me, but unfortunately the world didn’t click. A friend is really into it and let me play for a while, and it just didn’t feel like a good fit. I ran into the same problem with both of the Divinity Original Sin games. I’ve never been a big fan of most fantasy settings for some reason, although I do enjoy some of them. Dread Delusion, Shadow Gambit and Wargroove 2 could fall into the same category, although I would have to watch some gameplay first. Some of the advance information on Starfield looked interesting at first, but gameplay footage I’ve watched hasn’t made me want to buy it. I would be more excited if things would be a bit more seamless. I got Cyberpunk on sale a while back and put about 10 hours into it before I quit. I can’t really put my finger on what it was, but I just wasn’t enjoying it. I haven’t played it since that point, so it may have changed for the better. I already have the Metal Gear Collection with MGS4 for PS3, so the PC port won’t be anything I’ll pick up until it goes on sale.

The two older games from Mimimi both look interesting. In fact, I did purchase Desperados III on a sale, I’ve just never downloaded it yet to play between XCOM runs!

I either never saw or overlooked Starsector, so I will have to look into that one a bit. Endless Sky is top down, so it sounds somewhat similar!

Thanks for all the suggestions!

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Starsector is definitely a sleeper hit building a cult following. I wouldn't have heard of it if not for a friend of mine. If fantasy settings don't typically do it for you, you can encroach on a lot of things that people like about Divinity and BG3 in the Wasteland games. Wasteland 1 is an old RPG that's almost a text adventure, but Wasteland 2 and 3 are pretty modern. Cyberpunk also got a huge revamp right before its latest expansion drop, so even the original game's RPG systems and world systems work very differently now, and there's a lot of positive buzz behind it (I haven't gotten to it yet myself, but I liked the launch version).

For fantasy settings, definitely don't play Wargroove for the story, but one thing I learned to enjoy about fantasy stuff is it can create a rock/paper/scissors of strengths and weaknesses of classes/races that you can't quite hit in most believable sci-fi settings. I never got far into Divinity, but one thing that really worked for me in BG3, apart from its production value, is that it doesn't just bombard you with lore. It gives you the bare minimum setup you need to get going, and then it diagetically fills you in on the larger world as you go, with dialogue that doesn't feel like an info dump, much like Game of Thrones managed to do. Plus, IMO, there are far more interesting tactical options in BG3's combat than in XCOM; and I love XCOM.

stargazingpenguin,

I’ll look into the Wasteland games and see what I think, might be something I’ll enjoy. I have heard some good things about the 2.0? update for Cyberpunk, so I should probably start a new save and give it another chance. I enjoy some of the cyberpunk aesthetic, so that helps.

Interesting point on the fantasy classes, I hadn’t thought of it that way previously. I’ve never been able to figure out what fantasy elements don’t work for me, because it doesn’t seem to follow any particular logic! I may give BG3 a shot if it comes up on sale at some point, it might just be a slow build and I might just need a bit more time playing for me to enjoy it.

DebatableRaccoon,

I can definitely see why you’ve struggled so much since the common factors between the games you didn’t like are the most rampant in the industry right now. I’ve tended to find myself in a similar situation and would only remove Spider-Man from the list of not liked. Because of constant push-backs, I’m honestly not sure what the release forecast looks like at this point because I’ve refused to play into the hype train for a while now.

In case you haven’t already tried them, based on your favourites list, I’d recommend taking a look at Satisfactory and Jusant. The first is Factorio but in 3D so it plays into some of what people like about Stardew, in my opinion and Jusant is an interesting blend of Journey and Shadow of the Colossus from what I’ve played so far. It also has a rare thing called a ‘demo’ on Steam so you can at least easily and freely give it a try.

stargazingpenguin,

I’m hoping to eventually find something that checks all the right boxes! In the meantime, I still find a few that I really like here and there, and old favorites are always fun!

I’ve definitely seen Satisfactory before, I’ve just never bought it. It looked like it could be interesting, I’ll have to look into it a bit more. Jusant I hadn’t heard of, but I’ll check it out. Thanks!

seliaste,
@seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Is it because there aren’t enough good games or because you aren’t hyped by games anymore? For me between CS2 (counter strike AND cities skylines), Battlebit, the Cyberpunk DLC, TOTK… Thats already quite a lot of new good games coming out that I am hyped for

Conyak,

I’m hyped about several games, many of which will come out next year. I would not say that I’m not hyped about games anymore. I named three that I was excited about that came out this year. My point is that the premise of the article is silly from the start. A year being the best for gaming is entirely relative to the individual. This year was not even close for me. It sounds like maybe it was for you.

ampersandrew, (edited ) do gaming w 2023 Is The Best Year For Games In A While (And Maybe Ever?)
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It is.

The last time the deck felt this stacked was 2017

Agreed. I'm putting 2023 in my pantheon alongside 1998, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2015, and 2017. A great year for RPGs and fighting games, with the latter bumping up two of my favorites from previous years, Skullgirls and Guilty Gear Strive, a few notches via updates. Hi-Fi Rush is the first game in the character-action genre that clicked for me, and I've tried to make it click so many times before.

SnotFlickerman,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Hi-Fi Rush just consistently reminds me how comically bad I am at rhythm games. I love the game, but man I got burnt out because even though they made it “easier” for folks with no rhythm like myself, it’s still tough if you just can’t match the beat.

I am some kind of masochist though, because in the past I beat both Parappa the Rapper and UmJammer Lammy.

Ashtear,

It hasn’t exactly been banger after banger for me personally this year, but I can still recognize how big 2023 has been and how much excitement there has been year-round, from Hi-Fi Rush’s shadow drop to Alan Wake 2 right now.

It’s also been a great mix of new properties and long-running franchises. Zelda, Resident Evil, Diablo, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, Baldur’s Gate, Mario, and even Armored Core all had well-reviewed, major releases this year.

I’m nowhere near calling 2023 the best ever–I think it’ll take a complete paradigm shift in the industry to ever top 1998–but a lot of people have been eating very good this year.

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