He’s right, a product like that would have failed dramatically. At this point I just want them to release a dumb AF, streaming-only, inside-out tracking VR headset that connects to PCs. Forget trying to cram an expensive Qualcomm or AMD chip in there, it will never give you the ideal VR experience. Make something that’s $200 bucks, connects to any PC running SteamVR, and just does extremely well with streaming and low-latency. Both Airlink and VRDesktop have already shown that its possible to get extremely close to a cabled experience. All that’s left is some polish.
I just want to be able to buy something like an Oculus CV1 without Oculus software/proprietary hardware and a nicer screen. I’m still rocking the same unit I got several years ago and it’s still plenty fine for most things.
All of the fancy things like wireless and no-tower tracking are nice, but I imagine a lot of players are going to be seated and just want the immersion. Why not have a $300-400 offering that does this?
I could be wrong on this since I have no source but I always assumed that Oculus headsets were cheap because they’re a Meta product and you’re actually paying for it with your data/telemetry.
Like, the ungodly amount they spent on VR R&D is absolutely not being made up for by the few hundred dollar price tag on their headsets — I bet that barely covers the cost of materials. That must be for a reason.
I think having base stations not only increases price but also makes it unapproachable for a vast majority of people. Personally, I didn’t even consider the CV1 or the Index because I just didn’t have a room that could properly accommodate them. For the sitting use case, no-tower tracking is actually very suitable and probably works better.
even at ideal condition there is about 1~2ms latency(streaming 1080p game), while hitting 90hz requires 11ms frame time. so you are asking the game to at least perform at 111fps or above to function under said ideal condition. I think if some manufacturer can put together a chip set where they do the frame gen tech on the head set side, so the game just need to run at 60fps it would be a better option.(like PS VR ) Frame gen does require some other buffers to generate the in between frames, so that’s more info to stream over the bandwidth.
That’s basically what I got. Xreal Air (formerly Nreal until a C&D from Epic). 1080p per eye and something like 49PPD with a 45° FOV. Tracking is 6DOF and requires software on the host (only complaint) and connectivity is via a USB-C cable (uses DP alt mode).
It’s nearly as “dumb” as an HMD can get. From the teardowns that I’ve seen, it’s really just got an MCU, a GPIO expander, a 6DOF chip, and the displays + drivers. And I love that about it. No batteries or anything to worry about.
It is pretty narrow but also what makes it work, IMO. I don’t have them for immersion but for display replacement. The narrow field of view lets the 1080p display have nearly 0 screen door effect. Plus, the birdbath optics are really cheap compared to waveguides or fancy lenses in VR headsets.
This has been on my radar for a while to compliment my steam deck. But I believe it doesn’t do head tracking with the steam deck or does it? I just want a floating screen in front of me that stays still when moving my head around, otherwise I’m gonna hurl!
I think it’s great for my Deck but, that will indeed be a problem. The headset contains only the sensors and display systems but, none of the logic circuitry to “pin” displays. Including that would increase the price a good deal.
Understood thanks for the feedback. After posting you reignited my interest and I found out that they also have their product called beam which would do the trick to make a spatial display… if you’re willing to cough up another 120 for it!
Yeah… I’m not :P But, I am plotting a DIY solution. A solution that will probably cost more than $120 on components but, I think it will still be worth it.
So, I’ve got one for my steam deck and it’s less an issue than you might think, in my opinion.
When you’re focused on the screen, it doesn’t create too much incongruity when the background shifts, and it’s easy to just let you brain parse the screen as something that just floats in front of you.
It’s not immersive enough to get the inner ear involved and confused. It’s a lot closer to holding a phone sideways about six inches from your face and moving your head around.
The only time it felt weird was when I was using it in a well lit room, and I shifted my focus to something not on the screen, that was closer than the apparent distance to the floating display. It was weird feeling my vision try to reconcile that the nearer thing was moving behind the far thing.
Oh, you mean the problem they refused to acknowledge that was very common for a number of years? I wish I could get a refund or replacement on my 3 OFFICIAL NINTENDO controllers that suffer from drift. But alas, I don’t live where they do business “legally”
I hear you can get a replacement digital stick on amazon for the existing switch consoles. If the white ones that came with my oled switch ever get that drifting problem, I’m gonna buy one of those replacement stick components and send it and the drifting joycon to a tech repair shop I know of (that guy might have repaired like 200 of those already, pretty much everyone in my area these days owns a Switch). I don’t wanna risk shorting out a $70 controller doing it by myself
I think it’s saying a patent about hall effect sensors specifically relating to Nintendo and Switch style implementations. Obviously it’s not for the concept at large that’s been around for decades.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too. I blame Sekiro. Both my DS4s still work fine though, and they’ve seen much more use and abuse.
True, but you still do a lot of moving around with the left stick. And when you’re stressed out about imminent death at any moment, that can be hard on the sticks.
I loved Sekiro! My first time through the game, I probably died on that first miniboss a hundred times. On NG+, I got to and killed Lady Butterfly without dying once. What an amazing game. I should probably go back and finish up NG+ once Elden Ring lets go of me.
Ps5 controller was just as bad… I’m on my 3rd now and most of my friends are on their 2nd. I also had 1 switch controller go bad as well, but I also don’t play switch as much. This entire generation had the best controllers but also the worst problems I have ever had. Prior to these 2 systems I have never had a controller break before and I’m going back to original NES days.
I was talking about the PS5 controller. My DS4s (the PS4 controller) are holding up much better. At least the internals. The rubber on the sticks wore off, and I had to replace the tops. That was much easier than the 14 contacts-per-stick I have to de-and-re-solder on the Dualsense (PS5 controller) when I work up the courage to try that.
I loved my Dualsense too, and then the left stick started drifting so badly, it’s completely unusable now. It’s only about a year old, too
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years. I don't recall stick drift on a PS2 controller that I used for many years, but I've seen it on a number of controllers from different vendors recently.
Only thing I can think of other than recent hardware problems is that maybe the controller hardware imposed a certain amount of deadzone at one point in time and stopped doing so in newer gamepads, and that masked the drift.
I really think that something changed with a major potentiometer manufacturer in the past few years.
I’ve heard a lot of hearsay that that is the case. Tech savvy people have taken apart some sticks and say that analog stick quality has taken a nosedive in recent years. Maybe it is just the effect of this sort of thing being discussed on the Internet more often, but I don’t doubt the veracity. I’ve had a few older controllers that I retired because of external wear whose internals were totally fine. Seems like controllers like Dualsense and particularly Switch Joycons are just poorly made.
None of my PS4, 5 or Switch controllers have had any drift. I even used the Joycons in Ringfit for ages, and I was sure that spending months being strapped to my leg would bugger it up.
I’m not sure if I’m the luckiest person on Earth, I just don’t use them enough, or others are doing something I’m not (smoking or vaping are possibilities here, along with greasy food fingers).
Yeah?!?! You think so huh? I’m holding my breath on this one and keeping my interests in other game pads like ASUS ROG one, or the one that Logitech is making
I fixed my drift with a small piece of cardboard. I figure Nintendo could have eliminated some drift by increasing the material thickness in the cad file they use. They just choose not to.
I lost four sets of Joycon to drift. I even sent two in to be “repaired”. Talking to support was worthless - I’m convinced that the people I spoke to had never seen or used a Switch before. I don’t think they did anything other than calibrate them and send them back. I ended up buying a 20 pair of knockoff Joycon that have worked perfectly ever since.
My old Amazon order says Vivefox, but they don’t seem to be for sale anymore. I’m pretty sure at the time there were a bunch of companies offering the same ones, like a Chinese dropship kind of thing.
repairing joycon drift is super easy. ifixit.com and the joystick modules are 5 bucks on amazon. People need to lose this fear over opening and repairing their own electronics.
Cause i’m never gonna let them fix it themselves after they lost one of my ($40) joycons then threw their hands up and said it was my fault. Plus it takes them 3 weeks to do it anyway which is a long time without the games console I paid for
I installed these on my wife’s joycons because she mashes the sticks like Gail the Snail. So far no issues with drift! The kit comes with all the tools you need to do the swap so it’s very straightforward.
I still wonder what was so special about my N64 joysticks that I never experienced drifting. They’d recalibrate every time you turned the console on (or held some key combination) and after that were golden.
Yeah, except they were also so horribly designed that normal use literally grinds away the plastic at the base of the stick until it starts flopping around like a wet noodle.
The N64 used optical sensors in its joysticks. If you take apart the N64 joystick you’ll see the joystick is attached to some disks with slits in them. The N64 had an optical sensor that would count how many slits passed by.
Joycon drift, and all other thumbstick drift, is already a solved problem.
Use bushings that actually have some abrasive resistance and aren’t softer than a fingernail.
Use a non-contact based sensor to determine the XY position of the stick. Hall effect, optical, strain gauge, whatever, we’ve had the tech for 50 years.
The reason why they haven’t done this is one very simple reason: $$$
N64 does use optical sensors, the n64 stick is actually super precise and doesn’t suffer from drift. The n64 is a goofy controller but it is simply a great and accurate input device, and a lot of the games were really designed with that stick and notches in mind.
But it is made of all plastic and features plastic on plastic moving parts, without lubrication, so it suffers from wear of the plastic. Worn n64 sticks will actually be filled with plastic dust from the stick and gears literally sanding themselves down. The only problem with the controller is the premature wear of the stick.
It’s crazy to me that no company ever made a decent 3rd party N64 controller. The 3rd party ones were all as ridiculous as the defaults. Great console that I loved, but would have gotten a lot more out of with better controllers.
there was a hori n64 controller that looked like a normal double handle controller and it was really good, but it’s crazy expensive these days on ebay. I’ve also heard good things about the new brawl64.
The Hori Pad Mini? I had never seen that before, leagues above anything I remember being available at the time. The other looks amazing, definitely a modern controller that I would have killed for back then.
Yup. If they’d just made the bowl out of something OTHER than ABS, they would have been good. Delrin, PTFE, even a thin layer of brass or broze, and those controllers wouldn’t have had anywhere near the amount of issues they’re known for having.
There are third-party manufacturers who sell replacement bowls and sticks, made from everything from POM to steel.
the reason the n64 sticks suck is down to the stick tension construction and not really the sensing mechanism. Pretty much the thumbstick was pressed against a plastic bowl that wore away into white dust through use, making it floppy. it didn’t really have anything to do with the fact that it was an optical stick
The sensors on the N64 are basically the same kind you’d find in a mouse wheel. They work fine.
The crap part is the physical construction. There’s a lot of parts that wear down with use and cause the joystick to become loose due to the plastics wearing away.
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