Goronmon

@Goronmon@kbin.social

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Goronmon,

In short, it could be argued that Microsoft worked with investors to tank Nintendo so they could buy it. That’s a huge deal and will probably result in a shitstorm.

I mean, Nintendo selling shares of their company is a specific decision they have made. Do you think they are confused that people other than Nintendo employees are buying these shares? Or that the investors would have an agenda other than just being "Nintendo fans"?

Goronmon,

The term "activist investor" exists for a reason. And nothing from that email suggests that MS was looking to "tank" Nintendo in some nefarious plot.

Goronmon,

Also large AAA budgets and early access are now a good thing as well. Funny how it must took one game to turn those from negatives to positives.

Goronmon,

Those two are surely pretty valuable. But I doubt they are, on their own, billions of dollars a year valuable.

Goronmon,

Are you sure it was the FTC and not Microsoft that posted the materials incorrectly?

https://twitter.com/cecianasta/status/1704155135662821763

Goronmon,

Heck, Sony might be more realistic by comparison, at least their gaming/console parts!

I mean, judging from the quotes, even MS considered it pretty unlikely back when the email is sent.

Goronmon,
Goronmon, (edited )

Bethesda’s seeming disdain for anything that could be considered a fun and seamless mechanic is frustrating.

Or that the technology available doesn't really make this type of setup reasonable?

Star Citizen is trying to do this and it's been how long with how much money spent?

Would Starfield be a better game if they sacrificed the quests/content/companions and just made a game that was more like Elite Dangerous or No Man's Sky?

That’s fun, that’s what I wanted, and I don’t think it’s really expecting that much.

I mean, CIG has been trying to make a game that does what you want for the last 13 years and they aren't close yet. Maybe it's not as easy as you want it to be?

Goronmon,

The small improvements they have made in Starfield are alright, but it feels like the bar was set with Skyrim and they can’t even really match something from 12 years ago.

Or maybe game development is just hard? Why haven't other "better" developers created a game that improves upon Skyrim?

Look at Baldur's Gate 3. It's "small improvements" to the type of game that Larian has been working on for many years at this point.

Goronmon,

I actually backed the original Kickstarter.

If it's close, when is the release date?

Goronmon,

It's like that that old programming joke:

The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time.

Except that this is the first 10% of the code.

Goronmon, (edited )

I'm not really talking about preferences. I'm asking more about the niche that games like Skyrim/Fallout/Starfield fill. If it is so simple to just make "Skyrim but better" or "Starfield but better" then where are all the games from other developers that are just that?

Or from another angle. Where is the Path of Exile for Skyrim?

Goronmon,

There’s literally no reason the graphics wizards at id couldn’t make a Bethesda branch of the engine that uses similar or identical workflows to Creation but also employs all the best practices for a modern open world engine.

It's hard to take your opinion seriously with this kind of statement. It has some real "It's 2023, where is my flying car?" energy.

At the end of the day, it's a lot easier to write a wishlist of game engine features than it is to actually develop said engine.

Goronmon,

I think you can explain much of the lack of lower scores by the fact that the games that would get lower scores are also likely to be ignored by just about any established reviewer.

There are thousands of games released every year that a site like IGN will never review. Would you find it valuable for IGN to scour Steam or the Switch eShop for terrible games just to use more of the score scale?

Goronmon,

Its alright for people to dislike Dark Souls or not want every game to be a Souls-like. Not too mention that there weren't really any actual criticism of Dark Souls in the post. Makes the rest of your comment fine of as defensive more than anything.

Goronmon,

Larian is actually a pretty large studio at this point.

Goronmon,

They are such different games that direct comparisons don't seem very useful.

Goronmon,

Elder Scrolls games don't really have any direct competition.

Just releasing a slightly improved version of Skyrim would make that game the "ultimate fantasy simulator".

Goronmon,

BG3 is definitely the better roleplaying game.

Only in the context of the specific set-pieces provided within the game though. You have no way to work outside of the very specific rails that BG3 provides for interacting within the game.

If Skyrim is a mile-wide but an inch deep, then BG3 is an inch wide but a mile deep.

Goronmon,

I don't see why a specific studio gets a pass for story criticisms just because they are notorious for being lacking.

Goronmon,

Exactly what I was going to point out. Armored Core has always been a relatively niche series, that has never reviewed that well.

The fact that it's reviewing in the 80s (at least so far) is a marked improvement over previous entries.

Goronmon,

I’m excited for Starfield but buying a Bethesda game on release week is probably a bad idea. Let them get a few patches out first.

Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 were fine at launch. Skyrim definitely had some bugs, but the idea that was an unplayable mess on launch is a made-up thing.

Goronmon, (edited )

Those developers trying to shit on Larian need to cry and seethe more.

I can't find developers doing this. Seems like a mostly made up concern by overly sensitive people looking to be angry about something.

Goronmon,

Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Assassin’s Creed, Diablo, Warcraft, Mass Effect, Dragon Age… these studios have VASTLY larger resources than Larian.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team that worked on Skyrim was significantly smaller than the Larian team that worked on BG3.

Goronmon,

But now a small, indie studio comes along with a grand slam and they don’t like it kind of makes them look bad by comparison.

Larian is similar in size, if not significantly larger, than Bethesda when they made Skyrim.

Goronmon,

I’m okay with this on the condition that that platform is PC.

You want developers to choose a specific set of hardware requirements and only develop games to target and work on that specific set of hardware specifications?

That sounds like a bad idea all around.

Goronmon,

The context appears to be mainly about how having to develop for different consoles/hardware configurations/etc makes development harder. So, choosing PC as the "platform" in this context would be the worst possible option to choose.

Goronmon,

It's called a PC. All consoles are based on them. Develop for PC first... problem solved.

If the goal is to make game development easier, then PC seems the worst possible option to choose.

The Steam Deck is changing how normies think of gaming PCs.

Just thought I’d share something I thought was pretty interesting. I have a mother in law who is… well let’s just say she’s a stereotypical older mom who doesn’t own a computer, just an iPad. During the pandemic, she started getting into Nintendo games and bought herself a Switch. Fast forward a few years later and...

Goronmon,

Still, casual gamers did think Linux couldn’t game.

The parent comment is right. Most people don't think about Linux. Ask a 'casual' Swtich owner what OS the Switch uses, and their answer is probably going to be pretty close to the answer that a similar Deck user would give.

Goronmon,

If the success of Baldur's Gate 3 shows that gamers don't like micro-transactions, does that mean games that sell well with micro-transactions is prove that gamers actually like them?

Just want to be clear on what the rules are for the logic here.

Goronmon,

It's not the best rated game of all time...

Goronmon,

Honestly, nowadays it feels more like an indie studio is more of an indicator of quality than AAA. Most of the games I buy and enjoy are indie/small studios.

Larian is about as indie/small as Bethesda was when Skyrim released.

Goronmon,

A few Devs decide to be contraian to the praise and then the media decides it a huge backlash.

They are not even criticizing the game.

The opinions are basically either "Smaller studios won't be able to replicate BG3" and "Not all games/RPGs need to be as deep and long as BG3".

Goronmon,

To summarize the actual tweets/comments/etc that these videos (there are multiple) are panicking about.

  1. Smaller studios aren't going to be able to replicate the scale and complexity of BG3. So people shouldn't be using BG3 as the bar to compare future titles/RPGs from other studios going forward. Larian is comparable in size (or even larger) to Bethesda when they released Skyrim, and no one has been able to compete directly with Skyrim either.
  2. Not all games and RPGs need to be as complex and long as BG3. Expecting open-ended, 100 hour-long RPGs for every future game/RPG isn't realistic. Not all games require that scope, it's rare to get such a budget for this type of game, and even if you did, most companies won't be able to replicate the game in a meaningful way. Just like how companies other than Rockstar would struggle to replicate the scale of games like GTA and RDR.

There, I've summarized multiple 20 min videos. Just without all the hand-waving and drama.

Goronmon,

I did, did you?

Goronmon,

You would be far from the only person who has posted a link to an article/video they have never read/watched.

Goronmon, (edited )

Where are the devs criticizing the scope of it?

It seems the summary of most of the posts are "smaller studies can't create games as big as BG3" and "not every game/RPG needs to be as big and complex as BG3".

Are those responses incorrect and how is that being critical of BG3?

If anything, they are critcizing the idea that BG3 is the game all RPGs need to strive to be.

Goronmon,

I’ll never understand why some people feel the need to deride others for exceeding them.

Who is doing this?

The video kinda of dances around the subject, but I didn't see anything specific.

Goronmon,

Sounds more like a straw-man you're criticizing than anything.

And Larian is definitely a AAA developer at this point. Once you have hundreds of people working on a game you aren't a small developer anymore.

Goronmon,

I mean James Berg did though

Those aren't criticisms of Larian or Baldur's Gate 3. They are opinions that creating games at a certain scale isn't something developers can just replicate at will. Just like Rockstar games aren't something any studio can't just go out and put together.

It's like how someone would argue that not all books/novels need to be as long and complex as the Song of Ice and Fire series. Not all books need to be like those books, just like not all games need to be like BG3 (or GTA or RDR to use the other comparison).

BG3 is what AAA development should be if it was about making good products but at the end of the day these companies are here to make as much money as possible.

I think the quality of game, and lack of monetization, is certainly something that AAA games should strive for. I wouldn't agree that all AAA needs to be as big and complex as BG3 though. Just as Elden Ring being a great game doesn't mean that all similar games need to be massive and open-world in the same way.

Goronmon,

We as gamers should strive for games like BG3 because they were quality works that were made for the enjoyment of the player.

But that's what the comments that people are taking as "criticisms of BG3" are talking about, and is the context for the video from OP. There aren't developers saying "High quality games shouldn't be the standard".

I asked for examples of developers criticizing the scope of BG3, and you replied with examples. I guess I'm confused as to how I was supposed to know you weren't talking about "complexity or how long it is" (aka. scope)?

But yes, if your point is "developers should make good games, and not bad games" (yes, I'm being reductionist) then sure, I agree with that, but that's not really what I was trying to point out, and that's not what the video was about.

Goronmon,

Nobody really expects RPG's to be as big and deep as BG3...

Just to warn you, you will now be quoted in a future video about "Social media viciously attacks Larian for games that are too big and too deep!"

Goronmon,

I assume its less about what the mods do and how the mods are doing it. It's an always online game (whether you think this is a bad thing is a separate issue) and there is a PvP component, which means things are going to be more locked down from a mod/cheat perspective.

The article itself says the same thing.

In a way, this does not really surprise us. After all, we’ve been constantly saying that you should be using mods only when playing a game in offline mode. And, since Diablo 4 does not have an offline mode, PC gamers should avoid using even simple mods like TurboHUD.

Goronmon,

Are there many online games that don't warm against the use of mods in this way? My experience is that they all tend to basically have some version of the "using mods risks a ban" stance.

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