games

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zipzoopaboop, w Unity Overhauls Controversial Price Hike After Game Developers Revolt

Too little too late. Needs to be completely reversed, tos restored, and execs fired to retain any shred of trust.

hal_5700X, w Alternative sources for the No Pronouns mod for Starfield
@hal_5700X@lemmy.world avatar

I still don’t see the big deal about the pronoun mods. You have the power to use it or not. Also banning the mods only helped it. Streisand effect, everyone.

Binthinkin, w Alternative sources for the No Pronouns mod for Starfield

This is hilarious to see. It’s like watching human brain rot IRT.

Onion should write an article about lazy losers who mod games to gain edgelord status at some gamecon.

firebreathingbunny, (edited )

We are winning against attempts to shut down our resistance.

Lojcs, w This is Microsoft’s new disc-less Xbox Series X design with a new gyro controller

Apparently the new controller is also more silent. I wish it wasn’t so ugly tho

GillyGumbo,

I thought the same. I think it’s mostly the gloss that is making me not like it. Hopefully with the amount of variation Microsoft typically offers with controllers means the will be something that I can stomach.

conciselyverbose,

I could see the utility of the textured surface if it has the durability, but holy hell does it look bad if it's actually just cut in half for colors like that.

If that's just for demonstration and the split is more naturally contoured, maybe it's OK.

Whirlybird, w Marvel's Avengers goes on sale one last time before being delisted forever

I’ll probably never play it but for that price it’s worth the risk.

Saledovil,

There’s a social cost associated with buying it, namely, that you support live service games. So please don’t buy it.

Whirlybird, (edited )

I do support live service games though. I prefer them and that’s pretty much all I ever play.

What they’ve done with handling this game in delisting it is quite frankly fantastic - get rid of all micro transactions and bundle every single one with the game and basically give the game away for free at its end of life. Now anyone what wants to play it like a regular single player offline game can for a few bucks, and I believe are least in pc it uses steam for online play so it will still be playable multiplayer. Everyone wins.

Klystron,

Well it’s not gonna be a live service game in 12 days anyway. So please don’t buy it.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Huh? I bought it because one day one of my kids might want to play it, or I might however unlikely.

Why are you trying to stop people buying it, just because you don’t like constantly updated games? Why are you against them?

yata,

“Constantly updated games” is a ridiculously disingenous description of live service games.

Whirlybird,

Is it? What’s yours then?

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

"Microtransaction Hell" is my description.

Whirlybird,

OK cool so you’ve never played a live service game. Just say that next time.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

I have played several, and the vast majority have been Microtransaction Hell, and many games that are not live service are still consistently updated.

The fact that there are one or two games that do live service without intrusive and annoying microtransactions that are frequently barriers to progression or end up being pay to win doesn't make the description invalid. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Whirlybird,

The vast majority of Live Service games have zero pay to win microtransactions or barriers to progression. They’re almost all purely cosmetic microtransactions because that’s been proven to be what people want.

There was a bit of a learning curve for devs to see what people would put up with and what they wouldn’t, and stuff you describe was left on the cutting room floor years ago. Even games like COD now give you all actual content for free and just sell you cosmetics, and it’s wildly profitable for them. Selling map pack dlc got abandoned because it split the player base, whereas cosmetics don’t.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Isn't that literally what they are though? Fortnite, WoW, Runescape, Warframe or Hearthstone are all vastly different genres of games but they are still live-service games at the end. What else could the term mean besides "constantly updated", they are a living, evolving long-term service?

Whirlybird,

Yeah that’s literally what live service games are 😂. Would love to hear what they would call them, but doubt we’ll get a response.

dandi8, (edited )

Live service = always online.

It means once the servers go down you will no longer be able to play the game.

A game doesn't need to be always online to be constantly updated. See: Project Zomboid, No Man's Sky, Minecraft etc.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

What are you basing this definition on? A rudimentary google search for a definition gives more than one answer and yet none of them have "always online" as a requirement for something to be live-service.

Hitman 3 for example is an example of a singleplayer live-service game, Paradox games like Stellaris are basically that as well, and Minecraft and NMS are often used as examples too. Nobody claimed that a game needs to be online to be updated, that's ridiculous, so not sure who was that clarification meant for.

dandi8, (edited )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_as_a_service

"In the video game industry, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service.
[...]
Games released under the GaaS model typically receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time to encourage players to continue paying to support the game. This often leads to games that work under a GaaS model to be called "living games", "live games", or "live service games" since they continually change with these updates."

GaaS monetization can't be achieved without a central online service. Even with Hitman 3 a lot of content is locked behind the online requirement.

You can bend the definition as much as you want but this is what most people mean by" live service games".

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Your quotes just support my statement, the defining points are continued revenue and updates, not an always online requirement.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Your quotes just support my statement, the defining points are continued revenue and updates, not an always online requirement.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Where in there does it say “always online”?

Connecting to the internet and downloading new content when you are online doesn’t mean the game doesn’t work offline.

Whirlybird, (edited )

That’s not true at all. No Man’s Sky is a live service game, as is minecraft.

dangblingus,

You’re listing games that many would call, and I quote “ass”.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

A game being "ass" is subjective and irrelevant to the definition of a live service game. These are just examples.

conciselyverbose,

Because literally every live service game ever made goes out of their way to constantly dictate your engagement with it in a way that is exclusively designed for the sole purpose of taking money from you.

There are no exceptions. There is no game that has ever done live service in a way that is in any way forgivable.

Whirlybird,

That’s strange because I’ve spent about $15 all up on micro transaction since they became a thing yet I have tens of thousands of hours in live service games and I’ve had a ball.

conciselyverbose,

The fact that you can "play them" without spending money doesn't change the fact that every single element of every single feature is designed to make you want to spend money, and every interaction with every menu has ads shoved down your face.

There is exactly one design conceit for live service games, and it's "rob every player you can blind". It's the exact business model of every single one. There are zero exceptions.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Every single element of these games isn’t designed to make you want to spend money 😂. Going by your hate for them along with that terrible comment shows that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Almost every single live service game now just has optional cosmetics as the microtransactions. That’s the opposite of what you’re saying.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Just imagine if they included all the stuff you didn't buy as part of the game instead!

Whirlybird,

That content wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t a live service game.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Bullshit. There are tons of games with lots of variety that don't require microtransactions to access.

Especially ones that are mod friendly so extra cosmetics are free for everyone and doesn't cost the developer a dime.

Whirlybird,

Just because some games have certain content on disk doesn’t mean others would. At some stage a game has to be cut for release and is “content complete” for printing. With live service games they continue creating content to sell in-game. With non live service games they don’t.

If you’re going to bring mods into it then that’s a completely different conversation.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Just because there are many games that do it badly doesn't mean the genre label means something different. I'm playing GW2 and Warframe which are very much live service games and I rarely, if ever, feel exploited or manipulated into giving money to them - if anything it's the opposite and the only occassion when I do spend extra on them is when I'm happy with content or updates and want to support them.

There are no exceptions. There is no game that has ever done live service in a way that is in any way forgivable.

This is subjective and I believe this might be the case for you, but it is demonstratively absolutely not true for everyone. You framing it like some absolute authority on the subject is just shortsighted and inaccurate.

hoi_polloi,

I’ve been playing Old School Runescape and I must say it’s fantastic. Selling drops os enough to pay for my subscription and there’s no microtransactions.

Xanvial,

I’ve been playing Dota more than a decade, the game that technically introduce Battle Pass. I don’t even feel pressured to buy microtransaction, the community even disappointed when Valva stop selling the yearly battle pass

dangblingus,

Everyone should grab a copy of warcraft 3 with TFT (not reforged!) and jump on W3Connect for some old school DotA. No filler, all killer.

Haui,
@Haui@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I think the discussion has become a bit muddy.

The argument against live service games is that you are dependent on the servers hosted by the developer/publisher (afaik).

In normal circumstances, they are able to stop you from playing or alter the terms at any time however they like.

This is a dominant/subordinate relationship which is quite risky. Especially for young people who are still learning what a healthy relationship looks like.

The alternative is a equality relationship where you decide if you buy something based on the price.

One argument against that would be that you can „rent“ an apartment as well. But legislature has shown that states will intervene on a vendor (landlord) redefining the terms of the contract. Not so much with gaming.

Now you are arguing that the game is taken off live service and you will be able to play it offline. I don’t know if that is the case but if so then buying it now would actually send the message that doing the right thing after all boosts sales.

TL;DR: Live service games are badly legislated imo but truly making such a game offline playable with all dlc would be a good thing in my book.

Just my personal opinion. Have a good one.

Whirlybird,

This game is 100% offline playable now with all dlc and microtransactions included for like $4.

HidingCat,

Sorry you got downvoted by this Lemmy circlejerk. There's a certain toxcicity in these parts; basically anything not Linux and offline with the slightest hint of privacy issues is downright hated here.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Which is funny since the fediverse by its core principles has 0 consideration towards privacy.

It is really astonishing how reddit-like the hivemind here has become already, people don't care about even objectively discussing the terminology if they can circlejerk about "GaaS is bad ehmahgerd" instead, just going straight for extreme viewpoints and seeing it black and white. Really thought I got away from that when I joined here...

dangblingus,

Live service games represent lazy, copy and paste style game mechanics. They’re insulting to the gaming consumer’s intelligence, and they’re basically just jobs. Daily inconsequential tasking that eventually allows you to do an inconsequential raid, where you have a 1 in 1000 chance of dropping a rare item. All so you can stand around in the game world’s hub and show off your meaningless cosmetic item that isn’t really all that useful because you’ve accomplished all of your mundane, copy and paste goals. Oh, and the casino mechanics that psychologically incentivize buying microtransactions.

The game being “constantly updated” isn’t the issue. The issue is that the “constant updates” are basically nothingburger, repetitive tasks that you’ve already done a thousand times.

Do I care enough to go on a crusade and slap boxes out of people’s hands? Fuck no. But they are a stain on gaming

Whirlybird,

You clearly don’t understand what “live service” games are if that’s what you think.

What did PUBG copy paste and from what? Overwatch? Diablo? Battlefield? Counter strike? Forza horizon and Motorsport?

Your definition of them seems to be a super narrow scope of basically a F2P mobile game.

MomoTimeToDie,

deleted_by_author

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  • Whirlybird,

    Yeah quite often this place seems like it’s composed of the neckbeards that even Reddit wouldn’t accept 😂

    raptir,

    I don’t know about that. The game has now removed all of the live service elements, so I would say it’s showing that there is interest in this type of game without the live service.

    dangblingus,

    You probably wont’ be able to play it soon. Servers will get shut down sooner or later if they’re delisting the game.

    Whirlybird,

    They’ve explicitly talked about this, the game is entirely playable offline after the delisting.

    gamingdexter, w Starfield players are being haunted by asteroids
    @gamingdexter@lemmy.ml avatar

    I have had one since hour 12, I’ve changed ships multiple times, been all over, still following. It’s basically a space buddy now, I’m on hour 96

    Sibbo, w A quarter of Starfield players couldn’t even be bothered to finish the first mission

    Given that they have you meet a cowboy at the end of that mission, it is kinda understandable. I wonder who thought that having a cowboy as a main character would be a good idea for people outside of the US.

    Sharpiemarker,

    I wonder who thought that having a cowboy as a main character would be a good idea for people outside of the US.

    What’s wrong with cowboys? The US was one of the first countries into space (2nd) and space explorers are often thought of as “space cowboys.”

    🎵It’s been a long road🎵

    pimento64,

    Cowboys could easily appeal to people from Canada, Mexico, and Argentina as well. I’ve come across a disturbing number of British men who harbor secret fantasies of being wild west cowboys, so probably them too.

    glimse,

    I remember reading about a growing cowboy obsession going on in China a bit before COVID too lol

    WarmSoda,

    Oh shit, you’re right. They had a huge amount of photoshoots or ads or something all dressed up in cowboy clothes lol

    glimse,

    They were absolutely trying to appeal to Americans by making a cowboy character. Americans go nuts for cowboys. Everyone is downright obsessed with them. You can’t find a single home in the country without seeing cowboy memorabilia and they watch cowboy movies on the weekends, it’s crazy

    bitsplease,

    Be honest, do you actually live in the US? lol

    I live in CA, literally entrenched in the history of “the old west” and I can honestly say not a single person I know has any cowboy memorabilia in their homes lol.

    My dad had a little cast iron statue of a cowboy wrangling a bull on his desk at work growing up (a gift from a client) , but that is literally the only instance I can think of lol

    And I also don’t know a single person who regularly watches cowboy movies, I can’t even remember the last time a cowboy movie was made in the US… I think that remake with Chris Pratt?

    glimse,

    I was being sarcastic. The guy is saying that cowboys don’t appeal to non-americans…as if Americans love to see cowboys or something

    bitsplease,

    Well shit, guess I got wooshed lol

    WarmSoda,

    Yup. Wednesday is national cowboy day.
    Every week.

    a4ng3l,

    It’s a classic figure in western culture… and a fitting character given his story and the planet he’s from. We’ve had plenty cowboys in movies, comic strips and I’m from europe… Not my favourite setting but it works…

    Zoot_,

    Whats wrong with a space cowboy? His faction is often referred to as lawless and wild. They believe in a wild sort of freedom. Astronauts are kinda space cowboys anyway. Also space cowboys are not a new concept in media. What about a cowboy would make people not get the tutorial?

    doleo,

    It certainly put me off. Personally, I hate it when sci-fi writers use worn-out stereotypes in futuristic settings. Like the ‘Irish, but not Irish’ episode of StarTrek TNG.

    I’d already seen a couple of streamers play random side quests, and this intro just made me definitively realise that this was not the game for me.

    TootSweet, w Weekly what have you been playing discussion - week of September, 18, 2023

    Tears of the Kingdom. I’m determined to 100% it like I did Breath of the Wild.

    Gork, w EGDF: Unity’s Install Fees Are a Sign of Looming Game Engine Market Failure

    For example, if a game memory institution makes games available for download on their website, a game developer studio must now ask for a fee for it or ban making European digital cultural heritage available to European citizens.

    This is a thing? I’ve never heard of games being a digital cultural heritage.

    Sigma_,

    In the US the library of Congress has a video game preservation effort

    …loc.gov/…/yes-the-library-of-congress-has-video-…

    Library of Congress staff discussed its video game collection, the process of making a preservation copy of the data for long-term storage, the unique description challenges for video games and possible access solutions.

    www.loc.gov/item/webcast-8772/

    Skua,

    I don't see any actual playable games downloadable from www.europeana.eu at the moment, which is the website for the EU's collection of digital cultural heritage. That does come with the caveat that I've never used it much and may well just be missing something, though. However, there is a fair bit of stuff about videogames, even including images of physical hardware kept in various collections across the EU. I can also definitely see an argument for games being part of cultural heritage, particularly as the medium develops and becomes a bigger part of our culture. I think it'd be pretty fair to count Tetris as Russian cultural heritage, for example, not only because of its incredible influence but also how much it brought a Russian folk tune to global awareness (even if, ironically enough, it was an American version that did this second part).

    Brocken40,

    Archive.org has some flash and older pc games available for free, I downloaded a wolfenstien game off there, but it turned out to be Spanish version, so your milage may vary

    Oneeightnine, w F-Zero 99 is fun but too repetitive.
    !deleted4231 avatar

    Having a lot of fun with it, but I’m not really that nostalgic for F-Zero, despite playing a fair bit of it back in the day.

    Now give me a Super Mario Kart version of this sort of thing and I’ll be totally sold.

    Pxtl,
    @Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

    Mario Kart 64 Balloon Battle 64

    all-knight-party,
    @all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

    Nintendo hire this man

    HughJanus, w Nexus Mods Fine With Bigots Leaving Over Removed Starfield ‘Pronoun’ Mod

    So there was a modification that remove pronouns, and they removed it, because it was “bigoted”…?

    I’m so very confused as to what’s happening here…

    Why would a “bigot” make a mod like that, and why would anyone care?

    dangblingus,

    Your either baiting, or you haven’t really been paying attention to the culture war taking place in North America.

    HughJanus,

    No I’m just legitimately confused about why anyone would do that or why anyone would care that they did.

    foo,
    sonnenzeit,

    The part that confuses me a bit is that it’s a mod that removes functionality from a single player game. Usually features get added, not removed. When something is removed it’s usually to improve stability or performance. Or to rebalance the gameplay. This change falls into none of these categories.

    Well I guess if the mod author did it to garner attention or make a point he/she/they succeeded.

    gk99, w Ubisoft Montreal's mandatory return-to-office order reportedly leaves staff in "turmoil"

    To re-iterate, Ubisoft has done nothing to curb the sexual harassment issues that were reported ages ago and, frankly, simply not requiring return to office would’ve solved that problem along with a boost to employee happiness and workplace attractiveness.

    Catalog0904, w James Lambert: How I implemented MegaTextures on real Nintendo 64 hardware

    Really awesome video!

    BleatingZombie, w Digital Foundry: Star Wars Jedi Survivor PC Is *Still* The Worst Triple-A PC Port Of 2023

    I’m not doubting this for a second, but the latest patch made the PS5 performance significantly better

    drspod,
    reallynotnick, w [Rumor] Nintendo Switch 2 SOC May Be Produced on a 5nm Process Node; To Have Max Clock Speed Higher Than 2.5 GHz - Rumor

    Nintendo underclocked the X1, so all this tells us is some upper bound.

    lustrum,

    Big time. Their chassis design will dictate performance too. They will get the best chip they can in a cost budget and then thermal/battery limits will dictate where that chip actually lies.

    The steam deck is cool and a great device but the Switch 2 will be sleeker and nintendo won’t settle for a 90min battery a whiney fan, and that has trade offs.

    parrot-party,
    @parrot-party@kbin.social avatar

    Hopefully they'll actually use an active dock with cooling this time rather than the simple stand that comes with the Switch 1.

    lustrum,

    Might actually be a good shout.

    Switch 1 had a 720p screen with a 1080p max TV output. That’s approx a 2x increase in throughput.

    With Switch 2 it’s expected to be a 1080p screen and a 4k output, that’s a 4x increase in pixel throughput. So a 2x output increase might not be adequate.

    However, it is widely expected to have DLSS, which would greatly reduce that requirement.

    ForgotAboutDre,

    Cost is going to be a big factor. Nintendo doesn’t want the best possible console. The want a good console, that they can get into as many hands as possible. Even a simple active dock is going to add £10 to the price.

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