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Metal_Zealot, w Payday 3 developer drops Denuvo from the game before it's even out
@Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

So, do people actually play Pay Day? All I know is that it’s a game. Haven’t seen trailers, haven’t seen anyone play it on Twitch, it’s like a “fake” game that’s a joke that’s been going on for a really long time

xchino,

I mean the last one was released in 2013, it’s not exactly super relevant but if you’re that unaware of it I assume you were playing habbo hotel or whatever little kids played 10 years ago.

RedditWanderer, (edited )

Holy shitballs. It feels like just yesterday we were firing up payday 2 on release day with a bunch of friends and risking having a seizure at any moment on the “start heist” page.

I figured yeah payday 2 was like 5 years ago, time for a new one. 10 fucking years… i need a drink!

TheaoneAndOnly27,

Oh man, I feel old now. It was so fun when it came out. I remember the first time I solo stealthwd the nightclub. I kinda got burnt out when it went more absurd. Like after John wick.

Metal_Zealot, (edited )
@Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m aware of it like I’m aware of NFL games. They’re just kinda there and offer nothing new

all-knight-party, (edited )
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

Some people, like me, are probably just waiting to see what happens. Payday 2 was awesome, but after release it got microtransactioned and piecemeal DLC'd to high fucking heaven. I don't care if the beta is good, I want to see what it'll become before I get invested.

Metal_Zealot, (edited )
@Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

“Beta” it’s just “Early Access” with less free playtesters

drekly,

Man I was playing habbo hotel 20+ years ago

GreenMario,

Look at steam charts. Payday 2 is always in the first page. It’s very popular.

TheBlue22, (edited )

…are you an A.I.? Your comment is so incomprehensible that I fr think it was A.I. generated

Metal_Zealot,
@Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

If you can’t parse anything from that, when multiple others have proven they can, then I’m not the one with issues here

Commiunism,

Yeah it’s one of those fake games they put in the movies so the movie company doesn’t have to pay licensing fees

Metal_Zealot,
@Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

They could have just called it “Game” and I wouldn’t have been any the wiser

Yewb, w Payday 3 developer drops Denuvo from the game before it's even out

Dude that pre release beta was terrible almost everything was inferior to payday2 there is zero chance if me buying this game.

RedditWanderer,

Damn that’s sad to hear.

All they had to do was remake payday 2 with a few improvements/new puzzles/ maps and they would have made bank.

Payday 2 sold 40 million copies full AAA price too (like 79$ back then or wtv). They should have had the money to make a good game.

Fraylor,

Well after paying executive salaries and bonuses they unfortunately couldn’t have predicted the game would be on a bootstrap budget.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Tbh I'm not really a fan of this stance either. If I'm buying a sequel I expect meaningful improvements, otherwise you're just ripping me off for something that could have been a dlc or expansion to the first game.

themoonisacheese,
@themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works avatar

Tbh, a large part of payday2’s problems stem from being built on a racing game engine. Redoing pd2 on unreal straight would be of course a lot of work, but the end result would be a better product that I would pay for. Payday3 on the other hand doesn’t look like something that I would enjoy based on the fact unlike pd2.

GreenMario,

I played the beta.

It’s prettier Payday 2 with some quality of life tweaks. Plus it’s cross platform multiplayer which means I can PC with my Xbox friends.

That other guy is just salty. Whatever, it’s a brand new game for $40, not $70. I’d say give gamepass a shot if ya wanna rent it for a month.

PP_BOY_,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t play it but I had to drop PD2 with about 200 hours on it after all the microtransactions got too much to deal with. Coupled with the fact that hosts could leave games in the middle of a heist with no punishment and risking your account being banned for accidentally getting on a crew with a hacker, the game lost a lot of its appeal.

themoonisacheese,
@themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works avatar

It is basically impossible to be banned at all from playing payday 2. The worst you can do is equip invalid stuff, which marks you as a cheater and most people kick marked cheaters.

PP_BOY_,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

Idk my account was banned for about a month within the first year of the game coming out because a hacker started spawning infinite money bags on the Harvest bank. It took about a month of emails with support to get my account unbanned. It’s possible that they’ve since slacked off on enforcement, but I haven’t played the game in easily 5 years at this point.

CancerMancer,

Payday 2 did two things that drove me away: fundamental changes to the gameplay long after release that did not improve it (heavyhanded stealth nerfs), and an absolute mountain of DLC, complete with power creep.

I will be waiting quite a while before touching Payday 3 because I want to see how they will monetize it. Remember, it’s up against the likes of Deep Rock Galactic which is not at all abusively monetized. We do not need to suffer that shit again.

ElmarsonTheThird,
@ElmarsonTheThird@feddit.de avatar

Good it’s on gamepass after release so you can test it out until it eventually leaves.

gk99,

I mean, to be blunt, the game was never going to beat PAYDAY 2. PD2 is years of updates and content additions to make it fun despite the shitty engine, PAYDAY 3 is a brand new game with a lot of potential but all of it unrealized.

remotelove, w Sony Introduces PS5 Deep Earth Collection
@remotelove@lemmy.ca avatar

I had no idea 3 different colors could be over-explained and over-thought to such a degree.

For fucks sake. It’s red, white and blue you jackass. Ok, it’s silver, but might as well be the same in a picture. How much did they pay him to pick some of the most basic colors available?

Molecular0079, w Witchfire Q&A on Long Dev Phase, EGS Exclusivity, DLSS 3's Phenomenal Boost, FSR/XeSS Support and System Specs

Bah, I guess I am just gonna have to wait a year after release to play this game.

Blizzard,

Hope they’ll eventually release it on PS5.

mindbleach, w Payday 3 developer drops Denuvo from the game before it's even out

I admire the concept behind Denuvo.

Programs bounce around between a ton of different code segments, and it doesn’t really matter how they’re arranged within the binary. Some code even winds up repeated, when repetition is more efficient than jumping back and forth or checking a short loop. It doesn’t matter where the instructions are, so long as they do the right thing.

This machine code still tends to be clean, tight, and friendly toward reverse-engineering… relatively speaking. Anything more complex than addition is an inscrutable mess to people who aren’t warped by years of computer science, but it’s just a puzzle with a known answer, and there’s decades of tools for picking things apart and putting them back together. Scene groups don’t even need to unravel the whole program. They’re only looking for tricky details that will detect pirates and frustrate hackers. Eventually, they will find and defeat those checks.

So Denuvo does everything a hundred times over. Or a dozen. Or a thousand. Random chunks of code are decompiled, recompiled, transpiled, left incomplete, faked entirely, whatever. The whole thing is turned into a hot mess by a program that knows what each piece is supposed to be doing, and generally makes sure that’s what happens. The CPU takes a squiggly scribbled path hither and yon but does all the right things in the right order. And sprinked throughout this eight-ton haystack are so many more needles, any of which might do slightly different things. The “attack surface” against pirates becomes enormous. They’ll still get through, eventually, but a crack delayed is a crack denied.

Unfortunately for us this also fucks up why computers are fast now.

Back in the single-digit-megahertz era, this would’ve made no difference to anything, besides requiring more RAM for this bloated executables. 8- and 16-bit processors just go where they’re told and encounter each instruction by complete surprise. Intel won the 32-bit era by cranking up clock speeds, which quickly outpaced RAM response times, leading to hideously clever cache-memory use, inside the CPU itself. Cache layers nowadays are a major part of CPU cost and an even larger part of CPU performance. Data that’s read early and kept nearby can make an instruction take one cycle instead of one thousand.

Sending the program-counter on a wild goose chase across hundreds of megabytes guarantees you’re gonna hit those thousand-cycle instructions. The next instruction being X=N+1 might take literally no time, if it happens near a non-math instruction, and the pipeline has room for it. But if you have to jump to that instruction and back, it’ll take ages. Maybe an entire microsecond! And if it never comes back - if jumps to another copy of the whole function, and from there to parts unknown - those microseconds can become milliseconds. A few dozen of those in the wrong place and your water-cooled demigod of a PC will stutter like Porky Pig. That’s why Denuvo in practice just plain suuucks. It is a cache defeat algorithm. At its pleasure, and without remedy, it will give paying customers a glimpse of the timeline where Motorola 68000s conquered the world. Hit a branch and watch those eight cores starve.

sugar_in_your_tea,

Unfortunately, increasing cache seems to be the direction things are going, what with AMD’s 3D cache initiative and Apple moving RAM closer to the CPU.

So Denuvo could actually get away with it by just pushing the problem onto platforms. Ideally, this would discourage this type of DRM, but it’ll probably just encourage more PC upgrades.

Tranus,

I wouldn’t be surprised if we end up with ram-less systems soon. A lot of programs don’t need much more memory than the cache sizes already available. Things like electron bloat memory use through the roof, but even then it’s likely just a gigabyte or two. Cpus will have that much cache eventually. The few applications that really need tons of memory could be offloaded to a really fast SSD, which are already becoming the standard. I imagine we’ll see it in phones or tablets first, where multitasking isn’t as much of a thing and physical space is at a premium.

sugar_in_your_tea, (edited )

That’s just not true, here are a few off the top of my head:

  • video games
  • docker containers
  • web browsers
  • productivity software

RAM is actually the one resource I run out of in my day to day work as a software developer, and I get close on my gaming PC. I have a really fast SSD in my work computer (MacBook Pro) and my Linux gaming PC (some fast NVME drive), and both grind to a halt when I start swapping (Linux seems to handle it better imo). So no, I don’t think SSDs are enough by any stretch of the imagination.

If anything, our need for high performance RAM is higher today than ever! My SIL just started a graphics program (graphic design or UI/UX or something), so I advised her to prioritize a high amount of RAM over a high number of CPU/GPU cores because that’s how important RAM is to the user experience when deadlines approach.

Large CPU caches are great, but I don’t think you can really compensate for low system memory by having large caches and a fast SSD. What is obvious, though, is that memory latency and bandwidth is an issue, so I could see more Apple-style soldered NAND next to the CPU in the coming board revisions, which isn’t great for DIY systems. NAND modules are just so much cheaper to manufacturer than CPU cache, and they’re also sensitive to heat, so I don’t think embedding them on the CPU die is a great long term solution. I would prefer to see GPU-style memory modules either around or behind the CPU, soldered into the board, before we see on-die caches with multiple GB capacity.

Tranus,

Well you’re right that it’s not practical now. By “soon” I was thinking of like 10+ years from now. And as I said, it would likely start in systems that aren’t used for those applications anyway (aside from web browsers, which use way more ram than necessary anyway). By the time it takes over the applications you listed, we’ll have caches as big as our current ram anyway. And I’m using a loose definition of cache, I really just mean on-package memory of some kind. And we probably will see that GPU style memory before it’s fully integrated.

sugar_in_your_tea,

It’s already sort of a thing in embedded processors, such as ARM SOCs where RAM is glued to the top of the CPU package (I think the OG Raspberry Pi did that). But current iterations run the CPU way too hot for that to work, so the RAM is separate.

I could maybe see it be a thing in kiosks and other limited purpose devices (smart devices, smart watches, etc), but not for PCs, servers, or even smart phones, where we expect a lot higher memory load/multitasking.

fibojoly,

That’s a super interesting take on the whole issue. Good food for thought, thanks!

Pxtl, w Valve employee reveals “stupid expensive” scrapped VR console plans
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

Imho apple has it right for high-end vr: no wires because wearable computer.

HidingCat,

Only if latency is really really low. VR is one of those things that's really sensitive to even the slightest bit of lag.

I don't mind cables if it's a single USB-C cable.

Pxtl,
@Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

I mean a wireless wearable computer would have network lag but the important lag – between the rendering GPU and the screen – would be nil.

I mean streaming the video data to the headset Miracast-style would be dumb, I agree, but afaik all the rendering hardware in the new Apple headset is inside the headset.

The new Steam Deck and its copycats have proven that a compact gaming-grade PC is doable. If not fully contained in the headset, then make a little fannypack with a cable up to vr headset, but you can walk around untethered otherwise.

HidingCat,

Ah right, I see what you mean. I was thinking of gaming that requires a separate computer, but like you said, there can be other ways to do that.

Astroturfed, w Destiny 2 has one of the worst bugs in its history that’s melting bosses and PvP players

I’m amazed the amount of players those game still has. I bought it felt robbed and quit soon after release. Bungie is a shell of a what it once was.

DeriHunter,

I think you and I played different games… Destiny is a great game! One of the best looter shooter ever made. The gameplay and lore is freaking great. The only issue to me is that there are 2 much content and the amount of time you need to dedicate for this game is huge.but when I was younger and responsibilities free I had a blast

Astroturfed,

Maybe now. They released a game with barely any content and sold the content to you.

Ansis,

Yeah, lotsa downvotes but D2 is great. The issue is the amount of paid content - every tiny little new mission, gun or area is a new expansion or season pass. I get that they need to feed the people creating the new stuff but it’s still like >$100 a year for you to play all the newest content when it comes out.

I usually skip the seasons because they’re basically the same mission on repeat with a little cutscene at the start and end. If you’re patient, you can get the DLCs for 1/3rd of the price and still have lots of fun with it. I even get cool cosmetics (in-game currency) and play endgame content with my clanmates so it’s definitely not pay2win.

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

I quit it because of sunsetting content. I love to know what I have in a game and that if I wanna stop and play other things for a few months or something that I can return and still play through that content.

As soon as they sunset entire planets and disallowed you from being able to play the campaign on your own time, relegating the entire thing to randomized heroic missions on a daily rotation, I just couldn't do it anymore and left. It's absolutely the worst FOMO implementation I've ever seen in a game and it fucking disgusts me.

I couldn't believe what a breath of fresh air it was to play through Borderlands 3 this year and just be able to know what the whole game was, what all the content was, and that I could play that content any time I wanted, forever, without any chance that it would simply disappear on me, after I'd already paid for it.

Astronautical,

Those things were all taken out of the game like 2 1/2 years ago though

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

That would be when I quit, yes.

Astronautical,

I meant that those systems were removed. Sunsetting is not in the game anymore, and planets have been slowly trickling back in with seasonal content and whatnot.

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

That seems a little better, but seasonal content must be paid for, right? Does that mean the content I paid for that's sunsetted id have to pay for again seasonally? And what about the campaign?

Astronautical,

Seasonal content is $12 a season, sadly (really dumb too since Silver only can be bought in $10 or $15 packs) but campaigns and their respective content stays in the game. They also have overhauled practically every game mode aside from Gambit, and occasionally have free weekends for DLC. Overall, it’s better in some ways and worse in others.

SolOrion,

It has great bones. The game is incredibly smooth, and the gunplay is fantastic. Their monetization is absolute trash, though. I absolutely despise their seasonal system, and they keep vaulting shit I’ve paid for.

Plus they keep changing the fucking minimum light! Twice since release, I think, they’ve basically reset me so that I’m functionally a brand new player with some neat level 1 exotics I now have to farm shit to keep fusing to level up.

Olap, w Ubisoft Montreal's mandatory return-to-office order reportedly leaves staff in "turmoil"

What better way to manage head counts down?

ISOmorph,

That’s the devious part. It’s just mass layoffs without the severance packages.

conciselyverbose,

It still counts as firing you most places. Materially changing the work environment and obligations is constructive dismissal

Unforeseen,

Especially in Canada, and particularly in Quebec

AlexisFR, w MechWarrior 5: Clans Stomping to PC, PlayStation and Xbox in 2024 from Piranha Games
@AlexisFR@jlai.lu avatar

Damn, their writing isn’t very good, but now, their post release support for their own game is easily becoming better than what HBS did!

llii, w Sony Introduces PS5 Deep Earth Collection

Im pretty disappointed with the colors. They’re the same that we already had, only in metallic. There where such great PS4 controller designs and colors, but these don’t interest me one bit.

azurefirefly, w Destiny 2 has one of the worst bugs in its history that’s melting bosses and PvP players
@azurefirefly@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

Man I miss destiny but I can’t play it cause Bungie are paranoid blaming the wrong group (Linux users) as hackers so blocked us from using it, and even if I could I wouldn’t play it out of principle because of what they’ve done to it. It still has the best shooting out of any game I’ve played, but the stuff you shoot at isn’t interesting anymore

azurefirefly, (edited )
@azurefirefly@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

Looked at the store, man how much do you have to spend to get the content? $100 for light fall and the battle pass, then $30 for Gjallahorn, then another $30 for some other dungeon and new supers and then $100 more for the new expansion. That’s $260, it’s cheaper to pay for Final Fantasy XIV monthly and get a $60 expansion for a year. That’s not including all the past dlc either

Blizzard, w Sony Introduces PS5 Deep Earth Collection

Don’t bother clicking the link, it’s DualSense and PS5 covers in blue, red and white. That’s it…

Blizzard, w Witchfire Q&A on Long Dev Phase, EGS Exclusivity, DLSS 3's Phenomenal Boost, FSR/XeSS Support and System Specs

Glad to hear the game is still alive.

nimmo, w Ubisoft Montreal's mandatory return-to-office order reportedly leaves staff in "turmoil"
@nimmo@lem.nimmog.uk avatar

I find it quite interesting that Ubisoft Montreal chose the same day as my employer to enforce 2 days in the office every week.

I’ll accept that there is a 1 in 356.25 chance that any employer will pick a specific day to enforce a return to office, but it does seem interesting that there would be 2 employers in different countries picking the same day. Is there something special about that day that makes it a special day to change where and how people work? (I know that there were events on 2001 that took place on this day, but that doesn’t seem too likely a reason to pick that particular day to enact this change)

Dienervent,

It's a monday. So that's already more like 1 in 52. There's been like 5-20 news worthy "return to work" announcements in the past year, I'm guessing half othem have mandatory 2 days, the other half have mandatory 3 days.

Multiply that by the number of things that happen in your life where a coincidence of this level could happen and you should be seeing this kind of coincidence a many times each year.

nimmo,
@nimmo@lem.nimmog.uk avatar

Fair points well made. I thought the 11th was a Wednesday and I’ve been off on holiday for a week or so, so brain no worky so good just now.

I’ll l go back under my lurking rock again.

Oneobi,

Heh, the 2 days will become 3 and then 4.

These idiots are totally destroying work life balance but honestly, they do not care about our welfare or mental health. We are just human machines that they think they own.

What is completely laughable is how they have become advocates of the environment and reducing carbon. Yah, my unnecessary shitty commute is really not contributing! They turn a blind eye to that yo.

sugar_in_your_tea,

We recently went from 2 days to 3 days, and I chalked it up to our new CEO (old one replaced for unrelated reasons). Granted, many departments were full remote, in violation of company policy.

I’m hopeful that we can get back down to 2 days in office. However, if the industry goes for 3 days as standard, the might not be realistic.

stormesp, (edited ) w 6 MILLION PLAYERS have explored Ghostwire Tokyo's spooky streets

Wish more people gave the game a try, its great

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

What is it? I've heard the name around but have no idea what the premise or appeal is.

stormesp,

Its an open world first person shooter but with magic instead of guns, it happens in a Shibuya where all the humans have banished and the city is taken over by spirits/yokai both good and bad and the protagonist has to find its sister while posessed by a spirit that has his own goals but at the same time is what gives him powers, all around the story is simple but decent but the open world and lore is where it shines, a lot of missions where you get to know classic japanese folklore and help spirits trapped in this world for a reason or another. All around i enjoyed my time with it and the “gunplay” is pretty decent after the free dlc that they added when the game was released on gamepass which added a side ability to all three different guns/powers.

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

Oh shit, that actually sounds pretty cool, I was expecting some straight forward RPG by the name of it, I'll definitely check it out. Thank you

stormesp,

No problem! It didnt get the best reception when it was released as it was a sony exclusive that didnt get much marketing at first, but its a nice experience all around and if you decide to go for the story it doesnt overstay its welcome and if you have gamepass you can play it there as i did, so glad i made it interesting for you!

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.cafe avatar

I had just never heard anyone speak about it, the premise and Japanese mythology already interest me, and it's developed by Tango, the studio ran by Shinji Mikami, so I'm definitely interested to check it out (though I know he's not directly involved, it lends a pedigree to their studio, to me.)

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