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Whirlybird, w Marvel's Avengers goes on sale one last time before being delisted forever

I’ll probably never play it but for that price it’s worth the risk.

Saledovil,

There’s a social cost associated with buying it, namely, that you support live service games. So please don’t buy it.

Whirlybird, (edited )

I do support live service games though. I prefer them and that’s pretty much all I ever play.

What they’ve done with handling this game in delisting it is quite frankly fantastic - get rid of all micro transactions and bundle every single one with the game and basically give the game away for free at its end of life. Now anyone what wants to play it like a regular single player offline game can for a few bucks, and I believe are least in pc it uses steam for online play so it will still be playable multiplayer. Everyone wins.

Klystron,

Well it’s not gonna be a live service game in 12 days anyway. So please don’t buy it.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Huh? I bought it because one day one of my kids might want to play it, or I might however unlikely.

Why are you trying to stop people buying it, just because you don’t like constantly updated games? Why are you against them?

yata,

“Constantly updated games” is a ridiculously disingenous description of live service games.

Whirlybird,

Is it? What’s yours then?

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

"Microtransaction Hell" is my description.

Whirlybird,

OK cool so you’ve never played a live service game. Just say that next time.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

I have played several, and the vast majority have been Microtransaction Hell, and many games that are not live service are still consistently updated.

The fact that there are one or two games that do live service without intrusive and annoying microtransactions that are frequently barriers to progression or end up being pay to win doesn't make the description invalid. They are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Whirlybird,

The vast majority of Live Service games have zero pay to win microtransactions or barriers to progression. They’re almost all purely cosmetic microtransactions because that’s been proven to be what people want.

There was a bit of a learning curve for devs to see what people would put up with and what they wouldn’t, and stuff you describe was left on the cutting room floor years ago. Even games like COD now give you all actual content for free and just sell you cosmetics, and it’s wildly profitable for them. Selling map pack dlc got abandoned because it split the player base, whereas cosmetics don’t.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Isn't that literally what they are though? Fortnite, WoW, Runescape, Warframe or Hearthstone are all vastly different genres of games but they are still live-service games at the end. What else could the term mean besides "constantly updated", they are a living, evolving long-term service?

Whirlybird,

Yeah that’s literally what live service games are 😂. Would love to hear what they would call them, but doubt we’ll get a response.

dandi8, (edited )

Live service = always online.

It means once the servers go down you will no longer be able to play the game.

A game doesn't need to be always online to be constantly updated. See: Project Zomboid, No Man's Sky, Minecraft etc.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

What are you basing this definition on? A rudimentary google search for a definition gives more than one answer and yet none of them have "always online" as a requirement for something to be live-service.

Hitman 3 for example is an example of a singleplayer live-service game, Paradox games like Stellaris are basically that as well, and Minecraft and NMS are often used as examples too. Nobody claimed that a game needs to be online to be updated, that's ridiculous, so not sure who was that clarification meant for.

dandi8, (edited )

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_as_a_service

"In the video game industry, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service.
[...]
Games released under the GaaS model typically receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time to encourage players to continue paying to support the game. This often leads to games that work under a GaaS model to be called "living games", "live games", or "live service games" since they continually change with these updates."

GaaS monetization can't be achieved without a central online service. Even with Hitman 3 a lot of content is locked behind the online requirement.

You can bend the definition as much as you want but this is what most people mean by" live service games".

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Your quotes just support my statement, the defining points are continued revenue and updates, not an always online requirement.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Your quotes just support my statement, the defining points are continued revenue and updates, not an always online requirement.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Where in there does it say “always online”?

Connecting to the internet and downloading new content when you are online doesn’t mean the game doesn’t work offline.

Whirlybird, (edited )

That’s not true at all. No Man’s Sky is a live service game, as is minecraft.

dangblingus,

You’re listing games that many would call, and I quote “ass”.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

A game being "ass" is subjective and irrelevant to the definition of a live service game. These are just examples.

conciselyverbose,

Because literally every live service game ever made goes out of their way to constantly dictate your engagement with it in a way that is exclusively designed for the sole purpose of taking money from you.

There are no exceptions. There is no game that has ever done live service in a way that is in any way forgivable.

Whirlybird,

That’s strange because I’ve spent about $15 all up on micro transaction since they became a thing yet I have tens of thousands of hours in live service games and I’ve had a ball.

conciselyverbose,

The fact that you can "play them" without spending money doesn't change the fact that every single element of every single feature is designed to make you want to spend money, and every interaction with every menu has ads shoved down your face.

There is exactly one design conceit for live service games, and it's "rob every player you can blind". It's the exact business model of every single one. There are zero exceptions.

Whirlybird, (edited )

Every single element of these games isn’t designed to make you want to spend money 😂. Going by your hate for them along with that terrible comment shows that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Almost every single live service game now just has optional cosmetics as the microtransactions. That’s the opposite of what you’re saying.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Just imagine if they included all the stuff you didn't buy as part of the game instead!

Whirlybird,

That content wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t a live service game.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Bullshit. There are tons of games with lots of variety that don't require microtransactions to access.

Especially ones that are mod friendly so extra cosmetics are free for everyone and doesn't cost the developer a dime.

Whirlybird,

Just because some games have certain content on disk doesn’t mean others would. At some stage a game has to be cut for release and is “content complete” for printing. With live service games they continue creating content to sell in-game. With non live service games they don’t.

If you’re going to bring mods into it then that’s a completely different conversation.

Kaldo, (edited )
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Just because there are many games that do it badly doesn't mean the genre label means something different. I'm playing GW2 and Warframe which are very much live service games and I rarely, if ever, feel exploited or manipulated into giving money to them - if anything it's the opposite and the only occassion when I do spend extra on them is when I'm happy with content or updates and want to support them.

There are no exceptions. There is no game that has ever done live service in a way that is in any way forgivable.

This is subjective and I believe this might be the case for you, but it is demonstratively absolutely not true for everyone. You framing it like some absolute authority on the subject is just shortsighted and inaccurate.

hoi_polloi,

I’ve been playing Old School Runescape and I must say it’s fantastic. Selling drops os enough to pay for my subscription and there’s no microtransactions.

Xanvial,

I’ve been playing Dota more than a decade, the game that technically introduce Battle Pass. I don’t even feel pressured to buy microtransaction, the community even disappointed when Valva stop selling the yearly battle pass

dangblingus,

Everyone should grab a copy of warcraft 3 with TFT (not reforged!) and jump on W3Connect for some old school DotA. No filler, all killer.

Haui,
@Haui@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

I think the discussion has become a bit muddy.

The argument against live service games is that you are dependent on the servers hosted by the developer/publisher (afaik).

In normal circumstances, they are able to stop you from playing or alter the terms at any time however they like.

This is a dominant/subordinate relationship which is quite risky. Especially for young people who are still learning what a healthy relationship looks like.

The alternative is a equality relationship where you decide if you buy something based on the price.

One argument against that would be that you can „rent“ an apartment as well. But legislature has shown that states will intervene on a vendor (landlord) redefining the terms of the contract. Not so much with gaming.

Now you are arguing that the game is taken off live service and you will be able to play it offline. I don’t know if that is the case but if so then buying it now would actually send the message that doing the right thing after all boosts sales.

TL;DR: Live service games are badly legislated imo but truly making such a game offline playable with all dlc would be a good thing in my book.

Just my personal opinion. Have a good one.

Whirlybird,

This game is 100% offline playable now with all dlc and microtransactions included for like $4.

HidingCat,

Sorry you got downvoted by this Lemmy circlejerk. There's a certain toxcicity in these parts; basically anything not Linux and offline with the slightest hint of privacy issues is downright hated here.

Kaldo,
@Kaldo@kbin.social avatar

Which is funny since the fediverse by its core principles has 0 consideration towards privacy.

It is really astonishing how reddit-like the hivemind here has become already, people don't care about even objectively discussing the terminology if they can circlejerk about "GaaS is bad ehmahgerd" instead, just going straight for extreme viewpoints and seeing it black and white. Really thought I got away from that when I joined here...

dangblingus,

Live service games represent lazy, copy and paste style game mechanics. They’re insulting to the gaming consumer’s intelligence, and they’re basically just jobs. Daily inconsequential tasking that eventually allows you to do an inconsequential raid, where you have a 1 in 1000 chance of dropping a rare item. All so you can stand around in the game world’s hub and show off your meaningless cosmetic item that isn’t really all that useful because you’ve accomplished all of your mundane, copy and paste goals. Oh, and the casino mechanics that psychologically incentivize buying microtransactions.

The game being “constantly updated” isn’t the issue. The issue is that the “constant updates” are basically nothingburger, repetitive tasks that you’ve already done a thousand times.

Do I care enough to go on a crusade and slap boxes out of people’s hands? Fuck no. But they are a stain on gaming

Whirlybird,

You clearly don’t understand what “live service” games are if that’s what you think.

What did PUBG copy paste and from what? Overwatch? Diablo? Battlefield? Counter strike? Forza horizon and Motorsport?

Your definition of them seems to be a super narrow scope of basically a F2P mobile game.

MomoTimeToDie,

deleted_by_author

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  • Whirlybird,

    Yeah quite often this place seems like it’s composed of the neckbeards that even Reddit wouldn’t accept 😂

    raptir,

    I don’t know about that. The game has now removed all of the live service elements, so I would say it’s showing that there is interest in this type of game without the live service.

    dangblingus,

    You probably wont’ be able to play it soon. Servers will get shut down sooner or later if they’re delisting the game.

    Whirlybird,

    They’ve explicitly talked about this, the game is entirely playable offline after the delisting.

    Rognaut, w The Talos Principle 2 - The Talos Principle 2 is launching on November 2

    The first one was So good! This is great news.

    Zeth0s, w The developer of Vampire Survivors reiterates that ‘visually simplistic third-person solo games without elaborate narratives will remain the cornerstone of our company’, Prior to the upcoming update.

    I guess you can call him by name, instead of as a company. He is for sure the guy you’d enjoy having some beer with.

    I am italian, and the italian inside jokes in that game are hilarious.

    Suor clerici and la borra is the most childish, stupid fun ever

    Lemmyvisitor,

    what does that mean?

    Zeth0s, (edited )

    It’s a reference to this video youtu.be/8DtindO-698?feature=shared

    It was an old lady replying to a telequiz in the main public tv channel (imagine as the bbc for Italy). The show was one of the most popular among boomers. The question was “it’s foamy but it is not soap”. The old lady replied with “la borra” that is like italian for cum, but not exactly. You can hear someone laughing behind. Probably there was a group of younger people suggesting the Italian for cum as a prank, but the old lady repeated it wrongly because she didn’t know the word. Or she was mispronouncing the actual answer (“beer” birra in Italian). Anyway, the anchor woman, whose surname is clerici and who is known to be very polite (almost a nun, i.e. soura in italian), kept repeating “la borra” live on the main public channel.

    It’s a cult moment of Italian tv

    Lemmyvisitor,

    that’s hilarious, thanks for the explanation. I’m sure I’ll nail Italian TV trivia now

    BruceTwarzen,

    I looked into the guy and he seems like a riot. Not even picking up the award he won will never not be funny.
    Also, the games lack of story is pretty funny, considering the game is getting a netflix show where the tagline was something like: as we all know, the most important thing about vampire survivor is the rich story.

    Sauciness6413, w Game prices are too low, says Capcom exec

    Personally, I feel that game prices are too high. Patient gaming is where I’m at.

    Besides all of that, I don’t have the time for all of these games maybe cut down the scope of the game, go back to linear, 10-20 hour games and if its an open world don’t make it a huge empty sandbox with most of it being unused or with a boring game loop. If a game publisher decides to jack up prices then I expect top notch quality with no fluff included anywhere and that it works day one the fact that I have to mention that is sad, then and only then to me such a high price would be justified which has not been the case for some games in recent years. Finally, if a full priced game incorporates f2p monetization and battle passes, then to me its price increase is not justified in my book.

    Blackmist,

    I think the subscription based stuff is decent value for now. Run 2 years behind the current and you hardly have to buy anything.

    The only games I have for my PS5 that I “own” are God of War Ragnarok that came with it, and Baldur’s Gate 3.

    mint, w Resident Evil 4 Remake Will Cost $60 On iPhone

    This is being reposted everywhere as news but is super misleading. The $60 price tag gets you the universal app, meaning one purchase lets you play the game on iPhone, iPad, and Mac. It’s still a full game just like the Steam version, and if you look at Resident Evil Village, it will surprisingly run super well on M-series Macs.

    The distaste comes from mobile apps rarely being over $10, but if you think of it as bonus mobile access alongside a fully fledged macOS game, suddenly nothing is wrong here.

    soren446, (edited )
    @soren446@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • KirbyProton,

    You only had 1 downvote…!

    verysoft,

    Yeah but that is super offensive!! Seriously, state your opinion and stop caring about votes.

    adept, w Game prices are too low, says Capcom exec

    Quality can only increase. If people have to think twice about buying games and don’t preorder every half- finished game

    Rand0mA,

    Ah. The old preorder my bullshit game before you realise we stopped putting effort into it to finish the fucking thing scam.

    azurefirefly, w The Talos Principle 2 - The Talos Principle 2 is launching on November 2
    @azurefirefly@lemmy.basedcount.com avatar

    Can’t wait to pick this one up on Xbox Gold too

    normanwall, w Game prices are too low, says Capcom exec

    He’s right, he could easily give his salary up for the developers wages

    BudgetBandit, w Resident Evil 4 Remake Will Cost $60 On iPhone

    So basically Apple makes it so you can play the same game on iOS, iPad OS and MacOS, one purchase for $60, play with whatever you want.

    I mean, $60 for a phone game is hard, but for a PC game it’s normal.

    Too bad it’s a remake, but I can see where they are going: become the new standard for mobile gaming, get the hardcore gamers.

    520,

    It's a remake, sure, but it's a fucking good remake. Whether or not you played or have the original, this is worth picking up.

    amio, w Starfield Paid DLSS Mod Creator Hits Back at Pirates, Threatens to Add 'Hidden Mines' in Future Mods

    So someone will take his mods and make actual pirate versions of them. If he's trying to Streisand it, couldn't have done a better job. I don't see it being very profitable, though...

    notaviking, w The Talos Principle 2 - The Talos Principle 2 is launching on November 2

    I loved Talos principal, can’t believe after all these years we are getting a second one

    SturgiesYrFase,
    @SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

    Super stoked

    Borkingheck, w EA Sports has delisted its FIFA back catalogue from digital storefronts

    How does pirating fifa go given much of the appeal is online play and that card aspext of the game?

    HidingCat,

    Probably not, and also why the delisting might not be that big a deal. The whales were always going to get the newest version anyway.

    baatliwala,

    Or just ignore everything and play career mode if you have any self respect.

    XTornado,

    The security was shit on some editions. There was one,that you could close the prompt for CD key in a way and just play online with a pirated copy.

    Plus idk I haven’t played a lot but to me single player against the machines was enjoyable, well tl be fair I didn’t have much people to play with plus I am terrible at it so maybe that’s why.

    Adalast, w Dusk: Unpopular opinion: I'd rather pay Valve 30% and put up with their de facto monopoly than help Epic work towards their own (very obviously desired) monopoly

    Wait, this is unpopular? Well shit, I’m right there with you. I was already not liking Epic for many reasons, but the Satisfactory exclusivity deal seared them to a cinder for me. At least Valve is not publicly traded and the owner never has any intent on doing so. He is able to base his decisions on what he wants and is able to treat employees, customers, and content creators more fairly, even if it hurts his bottom line. Honestly, that is all I need to know about the man. He could go public and make billions, but he doesn’t. He wants the control and wants the closed company. In the modern world it is rare and, to me, laudable.

    can,

    He’s already a billionaire

    Adalast,

    This is quite true, though, unlike most of his cohort, he seems content with making more of them slowly over decades than trying to cash out asap.

    metaStatic, w Resident Evil 4 Remake Will Cost $60 On iPhone

    Hahaha. Oh wait you're serious? Let me laugh even harder.

    XTornado, w VR still makes 40-70% of players want to throw up, and that's a huge problem for the companies behind it

    Does anybody know if it’s the same cause as when on a car? Like I have yet to get into buying VR but I never get nausea on a car looking at phone inside/outside doesn’t matter. Just trying to see if I might be affected.

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