pcgamesn.com

luna, do gaming w Valve is banning Dota 2 accounts in the Christmasiest way possible
@luna@lemmy.catgirl.biz avatar

Valve has wrapped the banhammer in tinsel, adding a lovely Christmassy flavour to their anti-smurfing actions. Players who have been banned for smurfing are finding a Highly Toxic Lump of Coal in their accounts, a ‘Seasonal Reward’.

Datz, do gaming w Where Winds Meet players are tricking AI-powered NPCs into giving them rewards by using the 'Solid Snake method'

I really need to play MGS, I bought second hand 1-4 and still didn’t get to it

reksas, do gaming w Where Winds Meet players are tricking AI-powered NPCs into giving them rewards by using the 'Solid Snake method'

that is the best way to interact with the bots, its more fun to just tell them crazy stories. Like the one near the general shrine, i told him that i was there to beat everyone up in the sparring ring and first it insisted there is no sparring in such holy place and in the end we “went in and slaughtered everyone for the emperor for being such heretics”. It would be even more fun though if they could question things more.

prole,

I feel like if I ever tried this game, I would spend the entire time fucking with the NPCs

reksas,

the talkable npc thing is one of the collectible systems. Basically you make “friends” with them and they send you stuff occasionally

soulsource, do gaming w Where Winds Meet players are tricking AI-powered NPCs into giving them rewards by using the 'Solid Snake method'
@soulsource@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

That “Solid Snake Method” sounds a lot like the emacs doctor…

In case you don’t know what the emacs doctor is: It’s an easter-egg of the text-editor emacs (it is, however, mentioned in the manual). The doctor is a chatbot based on ELIZA, and meant to portrait a psychotherapist. Since it is a rather simple script, it is very limited in what it can do, and mostly just reformulates user input as questions.

frank, do gaming w Where Winds Meet players are tricking AI-powered NPCs into giving them rewards by using the 'Solid Snake method'

I’m not sure how I feel about AI chatbots as NPCs. On one hand, it does add near infinite dialogue options and flexibility to adapt to what a player does. That’s super cool and immersive.

On the other hand, it feels so damn lazy. Like I want to play games with dialogue/story as an art form, not as a “how much time can I spend here”

PonyOfWar,

I think it’s pretty cool. The game does have a lot of pre-written dialogue as well, so it’s just an additional interaction you can have with NPCs. It also does require a detailed backstory, motivations, personality etc to be written for each NPC you can chat with, so I wouldn’t exactly call it lazy.

lime,
@lime@feddit.nu avatar

you can build systems that allow freely chatting but will always stay in character. it just requires making your own training data, and training your own model. which nobody seems willing to do. mostly because it’s not feasible without bethesda-levels of dialogue.

Damarus,

I’m playing Where Winds Meet and imo the chatbots are one of the weakest points of the game. You are told it’s a bot, it feels like one, and as there is still a rigid game around this interaction, it’s essentially just a weird romancing minigame. The only reason I engage with this system is because it can be easily cheated. Nothing of value would be lost if this feature was entirely cut from the game.

yuri,

it’s a river that’s a mile wide and an inch deep

ImgurRefugee114, do gaming w Where Winds Meet players are tricking AI-powered NPCs into giving them rewards by using the 'Solid Snake method'

The ‘solid snake’ method?

lime,
@lime@feddit.nu avatar

without reading i’m going to assume it’s either dropping porn mags on the ground or clapping their dummy thicc asscheeks

ImgurRefugee114,

Dummy thicc asscheeks?

lime,
@lime@feddit.nu avatar

nnngh, colonel

albbi,

The Colonel’s daughter…

DebatableRaccoon,

The Colonel’s daughter…?

Endmaker,

It’s mentioned in the article.

ImgurRefugee114,

The article?

Endmaker,

Nevermind. You got me. Well-played.

sirico,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

I got you?

psx_crab,

You’re that ninja

RickyRigatoni,
@RickyRigatoni@retrolemmy.com avatar

Psycho mantis?

Rose_Thorne,

Metal… Gear‽

DoucheBagMcSwag,

a Surveillance camera?

Kepion,

Psycho mantis?

wildflowertea,

Wonderful.

The Solid Snake method of conversation has taken on meme status in recent years, as players noticed the Metal Gear icon simply repeated the last few words of anything anyone said to him as a question. As was discovered by ‘Hakkix’ on Reddit, you can do the same to game the NPCs in Where Winds Meet. If someone asked you, say, to “Find the buried treasure chest,” you’d respond by saying, “The buried treasure chest?” and so on. Eventually, the NPC gets so confused that they express their gratitude and end the conversation. Whether that’s due to confusion or exasperation is unclear, but the effect is the same.

mushroomman_toad,

The effect is the same?

wildflowertea,

They express their gratitude and end the conversation” which I believe is a synonym of “quest completed, here’s you reward!”

frank,

The Solid Snake method of conversation has taken on meme status in recent years, as players noticed the Metal Gear icon simply repeated the last few words of anything anyone said to him as a question. As was discovered by ‘Hakkix’ on Reddit, you can do the same to game the NPCs in Where Winds Meet. If someone asked you, say, to “Find the buried treasure chest,” you’d respond by saying, “The buried treasure chest?” and so on. Eventually, the NPC gets so confused that they express their gratitude and end the conversation. Whether that’s due to confusion or exasperation is unclear, but the effect is the same.

lime,
@lime@feddit.nu avatar

the effect is the same?

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Indeed. <absurdly long wall of expository text>, that’s why you must press on with the mission!

BarHocker,

Press on with the mission?

Wilco, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

We need laws passed where AI should have to be clearly labeled or the user faces severe fines. Robo calls and AI IVR phone systems should clearly tell you “this is AI”.

krakenx, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Use of AI should be disclosed the same way 3rd party DRM and EULA agreements are. And similarly it should mention some details. People are free to boycott Denuvo if they want, but people are also free to buy it anyways if they want. Disclosure is never a bad thing.

87Six, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Extremely common Valve W

daniskarma, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

The thing is that it’s kind of voluntary. Game developers could have use AI to develop the game and if they wouldn’t want to disclose it no one would know.

Unless the use of AI is the very crappy “AI art” that’s easy to notice the rest of uses would be very hard or actually impossible to figure it out to audit the legitimacy of the tag.

And this will end like r/art where the mods deleted a post accusing the artist of using AI when it was not AI and the final mod answer was “change your art style so it doesn’t look like AI”. A brutal witch-hunt in the end.

Darkness343, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

How would the computer controlled enemies work in a 100% AI free videogame?

MajorasTerribleFate,

I mean, the term “AI” as it’s used in this context refers to output from Large Language Models (or whatever other complex machine learning systems) that scrape the content of the internet and produce images, text, etc. based on the collective artistic/linguistic work of innumerable uncompensated, unaware human contributors.

Algorithms written by programmers that interpret internal variables and react based on that aren’t the kind of “AI” in question.

Darkness343,

How stupid are people to believe that fancy auto complete engines are AI?

Kage520, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

I actually would kind of like ai in games. Not slop visuals though. What I really would love would be in a VR game, going up to an NPC, and getting a feel for different cultures of the world I’m in through talking. Maybe you have to have a certain type of conversation to find out the plot for a side quest, or talk to a guard at a bar and work your way to find out the shift rotation as he gets drunk or something so you can infiltrate the castle.

I feel like ai could be useful like that…but getting rid of artists in favor of ai slop is just the worst way to implement this AI thing.

Bahnd,
@Bahnd@lemmy.world avatar

Avoiding slopification seems to be the main priority, and you would have to have the AI be incorporated into a game it would have to do something that AI is already passable at, otherwise it wont pass that barrier and will get shunned like the rest of the slop.

For example, you could have an LLM act as a character or have a neural net incorporated into the game-ai like how tool assisted DOTA2 competitions work.

I see three main problems, first is that you would need the hardware to run it locally, which may be a hard sell to some people depending on what the game it is, only online expirenes should endebt themselves to AWS, if its single player, its going to lose a ton of sales there. Two, its really hard to convince audiences electrons have feelings, remember Final Fantasy (2001)? Thats what happened last time someone tried to personify a digital construct, and well… It went swimmingly (Microsofts Tay, does not count). Lastly, impact, would a narrative focused title have the same impact of an AI wrote the script? How would you feel after playing through a title like “Papers, please” and when the credits roll it says “script generated by CoPilot”? I feel like it would ring hollow, the feelings would be cheapened by it…

I would be interested to see how this plays out, but im content to support the titles and studios that do things the traditional way.

GeneralEmergency, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Steam already sells enough slop without AI.

But you know for sure the moment Gaben sees all the money from AI games, that shit will be pushed to the max.

Burghler,

You have no idea why Steam dominates the market if you truly think this.

GeneralEmergency,

Aww dude.

Steam was plagued with asset flips for years and refused to do anything about it. Repeatedly saying it was a Unity issue.

Then there’s the slop of shitty “simulator” games

Digital Homicide

Bad Rats

Have we seriously forgotten about Day One: Gary’s Incident

Steam dominates the market because it paid publishers to use them as DRM for physical releases.

Burghler,

So does Nintendo’s estore and they don’t bother to filter or sort the slop out, it’s a worthless store to search through. At least steam filters out the slop trash and allows refunds if you somehow fall for garbage.

What is your point here? Some niche forgotten game from 12 years weighs that heavily on your mind?

Where do you even find asset flip games? I haven’t seen any in 5+ years and that period only existed because malicious people found the angle, which valve plugged.

Steam dominates the market because all my friends are there and we all have a great experience. Sales on PC games are better than physical console games ever get. Customer support and in general user experience has been phenomenal.

You can look past weaknesses that were addressed and solved my guy. Greedy assholes will always try to game the system and valve plugs those quick.

Aww dude? Wake up?

GeneralEmergency,

Aww dude.

Good job ignoring Steam’s monopolistic anti consumer practices that caused their dominance.

Good job ignoring Steam’s multiple instances of willingly selling shit because they get paid either way.

Good job ignoring Steam had to be forced to give refunds by the EU.

You’re a good little sheep aren’t you.

Burghler,

You do know it’s a market place lil bro and the best marketplace available in general? The only better one I can think of is Costco and their tech return policies are worse than steam.

You do know DRM isn’t enforced right? You can release without it.

You do know the refund policy is MORE consumer friendly than what the legal obligation from EU requires right?

If calling me a sheep helps you feel better about your poorly researched takes (and incredibly outdated). All the power to you. I’ve said my piece now, I have no further will to continue this fruitless yapping.

GeneralEmergency,

DRM isn’t enforced right?

Good job completely ignoring what I said about Valve paying publishers to use them as DRM to forced a install base. That’s a good little lamb you are.

MORE consumer friendly

It is literally the bare minimum they are required, something they spent years arguing against. And you say I’m making poorly researched takes.

I know it’s hard to come to terms with how you’ve been treated like a fool. But don’t worry, one of these days you’ll see the light.

Burghler,

¯⁠\⁠(⁠°⁠_⁠o⁠)⁠/⁠¯

Baaaaah

GeneralEmergency,

Typical G*mer troglodyte.

Been fed for shit for so long you have a fetish for it.

Burghler,

ᕦ⁠(⁠ò⁠_⁠ó⁠ˇ⁠)⁠ᕤ

1v1 me scrub

GeneralEmergency,

I’d rather not catch the G*mer

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, yes, we get it. Everything is bad, nothing is good.

CatsPajamas, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Man I use AI a lot and I’m not even going to dispute that lol. It’s absolutely true.

mirshafie,

I’mnot even opposed to AI in games. I’d love to see more granulated disclosures, but Steam-style disclosure should be the bare minimum.

ameancow,

Yah the more I use AI the more I can detect the absolute bullshit people on both sides spew.

It’s the most amazingly complicated averaging machine we’ve ever invented. It will take the most interesting source materials, the most unique ideas of other people, the most creative materials, and it will find a way to find the safest, most average common qualities between those things. This isn’t a model problem or input problem, it’s fundamental to how generative AI works.

It helps with searching for things online, it helps create guide plans for taking on new tasks like learning some new skill. It’s far better at teaching how to do something like coding than it is left to just code on its own and you copy and paste. It can certainly do that, but you spend so much time correcting it and fixing it that you do far better learning the code yourself and how it works.

Same with art, the people who are using it to best effect are themselves already artists and they use AI to thumbnail compositions or rough layouts, color tests and such, and then just do the work themselves but faster because they already know roughly what direction they’re going.

But using it to write your scripts, to copy/paste code, to generate works of art… it’s literally just giving you other people’s ideas mashed together and unseasoned.

RampantParanoia2365, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

…what calls? No one is calling for this. One dude said it was unnecessary. That’s not a call, it’s an opinion. He’s not out picketing for the end of fucking AI labels.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

whether he is or isn’t, they saw a chance to create a huge amount of good PR for Valve while doing and spending absolutely nothing. I mean, look at the amount of upvotes this post has. all they had to do is take what appears to be a principled stand.

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