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commissar_whiskers, do games w Devs on Unity Runtime Fee: "The trust is gone forever"

Didn’t they see Hasbro trying the same thing? Sure, DnD itself is doing fine, but they lost the trust of third party publishers.

Gullible,

Could I get a digestible version of the dnd drama? I could never parse what was happening.

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

DnD 5e had a license for use that allowed 3rd party companies to make stuff for the game following specific rules, and they did so which of course helped with increasing the popularity of the brand. This license existed due to the backlash from players and 3rd party developers who did not like the 4e licensing which was ridiculously restrictive.

Then WotC/Hasbro decided they wanted more control and put out a draconian revision and also tried to invalidate the existing license using questionable legal logic that wouldn't stand up in court, but would be cost prohibitive for the 3rd party companies to fight in court. This revision also included licensing costs that would drive 3rd party companies out of business. Then they did a revision that tried to make creating a virtual tabletop that could be used with DnD a violation to try and corner the market for WotC's completely non-existent virtual tabletop.

Basically they tried to stop doing the thing they had in place for like a decade to milk an unrealistically high amount of money out of companies that were working with them and tried to force this on extremely short notice. So same thing as reddit and now Unity are doing.

Expect the next version of DnD to be a walled garden again like 4e was and most likely fade out of the public view again.

AngryCommieKender,

The true irony here is that TSR went bankrupt because they tried to mess with the community content licenses that were basically gentleman’s agreements at the time, allowing WotC to purchase D&D in the first place with 3rd edition. I hope they sell the property to someone that understands how to run that golden goose, without expecting unlimited growth.

friek,

Paizo. Been playing Pathfinder for years.

AngryCommieKender,

Paizo wouldn’t exist for over a decade when TSR sold D&D to WotC. Try again.

commissar_whiskers,

And it’s not just me right? This is similar. Revising existing licensing to squeeze more money out of people who already use their back end.

IntergalacticTowel, do games w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@IntergalacticTowel@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Some alternatives to Unity with:

  • Godot - GDScript, C#, 2D/3D
  • Defold - Lua, 2D/3D
  • Stride - C#, 2D/3D
  • Bevy - Rust, 2D/3D
  • Armory 3D - Haxe, C, C++, Rust, WebAssembly, JavaScript, Logic-Nodes, 3D
  • O3DE - Lua, Script Canvas, 3D
  • Flax Engine - C#, C++, Visual Scripting, 3D

And Unreal, of course, if you trust big corps.

BradleyUffner,

MonoGame is pretty good too, if you’re feeling ambitious and really like working in low level code.

Serdan,

Some of the best indie games were made in MonoGame.

www.monogame.net/showcase/

Chariotwheel, do games w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"

Unity the Right something something

Buffalox, do games w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"

“not valid charities” and are instead “political groups.”

Only the Insane Christian right fanatics would call Planned Parenthood a political group!

Insane is the new normal in right wing America.

Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow,

Starting to sympathize with the employee who made the death threats

agent_flounder,
@agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

Which is why I’m calling them the rabid right from now on.

RoundSparrow, do games w Devs on Unity Runtime Fee: "The trust is gone forever"

Core components... like operating systems and engines... this was the whole reason people open sourced in the first place. You start getting it in millions of devices and it is too much power for closed-source closed-license. The GPU drivers and WiFi drivers are often the ones who pave the paths away from open source.

Poggervania, do games w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@Poggervania@kbin.social avatar

Obligatory plug for Godot if you want a FOSS game engine

eltimablo,

There's also O3DE, though I don't know what kind of state it's in.

Serinus,

I’m excited for the push this is gonna give Godot. Wouldn’t mind it becoming the mainstream engine.

li10, do games w Devs on Unity Runtime Fee: "The trust is gone forever"

I said it in another thread, but Unity has truly fucked the vendor-client relationship.

While it is a nightmare, you can work with a company that changes its prices and terms, but you absolutely can’t work with a company that pulls this level of BS.

It’s just not safe to have your company so dependent on a vendor that could tank it on a whim.

dudewitbow,

Pretty much the biggest mistake made due to greed is the decision to retroactively apply thr deals to already existing titles. Its one thing to neuter titles in the future, but another to fuck over everyone whose already committed to using it on a different TOS

WalrusDragonOnABike,

Not a lawyer, but I feel like basing the fee on their internal guess on how many installs seems questionable. Surely some major jurisdictions would take issue with that and counting installs from before the new TOS towards the new threshold. Also their contradictory TOS terms at the very least would probably get them an expensive trial, even if they win it.

conciselyverbose,

Yep. The insanity of thinking you could apply it retroactively to already licensed games was absurd.

If you tied it to a future main version release with features people wanted, you could absolutely get away with some light pushback that's the usual grumbling on price changes, and a lot of developers would suck it up and move to the up to date engine anyways.

But when you try to pull the rug on people for stuff they've already been developing under previous terms, they're going to seriously reconsider, and on stuff they already published makes it extremely hard to justify working with you again.

Hazzard, (edited )

Yeah, that’s what burns the business relationship. Because now it’s not just “oh, Unity might screw me, and I’m investing in learning what could become a dead platform”, it’s “even if Unity doesn’t screw me now, they could randomly decide to screw me 10 years from now and retroactively charge me a king’s ransom”. That’s the stuff that has a permanent chilling effect on the whole platform.

OscarRobin,

The reason why Unity refuses to not make it retro-active is because they want money from Genshin Impact etc which already launched. If they don’t make it retroactive then the whole point of the change on their end is gone.

Jaysyn, do games w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Devs may as well bite the bullet & switch engines mid development now, because I'm not buying any new games made in Unity.

Chariotwheel,

Gotta love how they really tried to check every argument against the engine.

Financially, trustwise, politically. Next would be sexual harassment in the office then.

r00ty,

Unity: Hold my beer.

xkforce,

It is virtually certain that there is sexual harassment going on.

Chariotwheel,

Great, what else then? Child labour?

sebinspace,

Hey, those Asian kids learn C# before they even learn to speak, they don’t fuck around.

Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow,

“Planned Parenthood is political” = “I own women’s bodies”

LegionEris, (edited ) do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"

Calling Planned Parenthood a political group is just telling on yourself. You hate women’s bodily autonomy and/or trans people enough to overlook the fact that they offer free and income cost adjusted birth control and vasectomies and hysterectomies and fertility treatments. They are a non-profit organization offering every type of sexual and reproductive health care. They, in fact, do not engage in politically driven discrimination against certain types of sexual health issues. They treat those trying to get pregnant with the same level of evidence based care as those seeking abortion or hrt or to be made infertile, without concern for public opinion or political discourse. I assume all of the above can be said of the children’s hospital mentioned, but I don’t have an ongoing relationship with them to base my comments on…

ShittyRedditWasBetter, (edited ) do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"

Gaming community will now approach every little thing at unity like the end of the world rather than middle management not knowing when to escalate a gap in policy, miscommunication, or just a dumb single person making a dumb call.

Empricorn, do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"

Is Unity a Republican? They seem to want to be greedy and wrong at every possible opportunity…

SatouKazuma,
@SatouKazuma@lemmy.world avatar

110% they are. Even want to force women to carry ectopic pregnancies to term, apparently.

Teodomo,

I mean, nowadays I assume almost all C-suite execs (which make these decisiones) to be conservative (or “apoliticals”/“insert other tag” that act like conservatives)

can,

You don’t get to their position by being a caring, empathetic person.

cupcakezealot, do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Unreal about to have a really good October.

HappyMeatbag, do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org avatar

Okay. I was already annoyed, but now I’m like “seriously, fuck these people.” I hope Unity is driven out of business.

k_rol,

That doesn’t sound like a great outcome: one less game engine in the market, developers having to change all their codes, tons of layoff, c-suites finding a new job like nothing happened.

HappyMeatbag,
@HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org avatar

No, it’s far from great, but it’s better than allowing shenanigans like this to become the norm - and they will become the norm unless Unity pays severely.

k_rol,

Then I’d rather wish for the execs to be fired and replaced. They are the ones making those decisions that should pay for it.

Jaysyn, do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Devs may as well bite the bullet & switch engines mid development now, because I'm not buying any new games made in Unity.

mojo,

Game’s made in Unity have literally nothing to do with this, that makes no sense

SatouKazuma,
@SatouKazuma@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, you’re just being willingly daft. How the bloody hell do you not see the readily apparent connection?

mojo,

Because it’s a tool, game development is a huge investment, there’s really not many alternatives, and if you think Godot is an alternative, you have zero gamedev experience. You have to be straight up ignorant to believe that completely unrelated game developers are somehow supporting this, and have zero basis in reality to think they can swap engines on the drop of a hat.

BleatingZombie,

I don’t think anybody claimed they could do it “at the drop of a hat”. They’re saying it would be financially beneficial for these game developers to take the financial hit to jump ship from Unity because people will be less likely to buy Unity games

mojo,

That’s not any less detached from reality. Like I said, you have no familiarity with these tools if you think it’s a simple choice to just not go with Unity. It’s also rarely obvious what engine a game is actually made in unless it’s a smaller indie game that still has the Unity stuff left in. Also if you think gamers actually have the ability to boycott games, then lol.

BleatingZombie,

I’m not going to give any personal information about myself, but you are WAY off with your assumption about my knowledge regarding both the development side and business side of these kind of choices. It’s what I do

mojo,

I don’t need to ask your personal info, I just need to ask how many actual medium+ budget (100k+) projects do you seen being worked on/ported into Godot?

SatouKazuma,
@SatouKazuma@lemmy.world avatar

This is precisely my point, and why the OC resorted to ad hominem almost out of the gate is beyond me. That said, I do have a bit of experience in game development, and I think the short term gains from Unity would be outweighed by the losses incurred through negative PR and Unity’s stunts.

AdmiralShat,

The fact that you don’t recognize Godot as a viable alternative just proves you don’t actually have any dev experience yourself

mojo,

Uh huh, Godot doesn’t have any texture/mesh/animation/audio streaming, has no access to low level rendering structures, lacks significant optimizations, lacks swarm logic, complete lack of mature tools, no paid asset/extension store, miles behind shader editing and vfx effects. Which part of these are wrong, and do you understand why these things are required for big games?

AdmiralShat, (edited )

I didn’t say it was feature parity with Unity, 90% of Unity games don’t require most of the features Unity has that Godot lacks.

Streaming is not the only solution to efficiently loading assets

The VFX is not lacking from Unity in anyway other than not having Unity’s specific tools for organizing them, the Shader and VFX graph. It lacks access to the stencil buffer right now, but not much else. You can still make any shader in Godot that you can make in Unity.

W4 is opening a dedicated paid store.

Godot can run native C++, making it more optimized than Unity in several areas. DOTS can out do it in some areas, but again native C++ is still faster.

You have direct access to Godot’s render pipeline code so no idea what you mean by ‘low level’, no idea how’d you get lower level than direct access to the render pipeline itself.

mojo, (edited )

Streaming is required for a lot of use cases, it’s probably the most important of everything I listed. Godot is miles behind even Unity in fidelity still. “Opening a paid store” still means it currently does not exist and also means there’s zero assets for actual purchase. Running native c++ has literally nothing to do with Engine optimization lol. That’s also just false, you don’t have access to the rendering server even from gdextension.

This isn’t coming from me btw, this is coming from the literal creator of Godot, so you’re disagreeing with him here. Really shows you how deep into the circlejerk we are here lol. godotengine.org/…/whats-missing-in-godot-for-aaa/

edit: nice the guy who calls me cringe blocks me after replying so he can’t be called out for being wrong. Maybe don’t be so argumentative when you reply and don’t know what you’re talking about. How toxic.

AdmiralShat, (edited )

Edit, I didn’t block him, he’s being a troll I guess.

Firstly, I can tell you only skimmed that and haven’t actually read it because it contradicts multiple points you made in this and the previous comment. Like, actually read it before trying to use it as a source.

“Everyone who disagrees with me is circle jerking”

Lol, okay buddy. You’re a tad bit cringe

Like, “As such, this means that low level access to all the rendering server structures needs to be exposed via GDExtension.” Says it right there, in the page you linked. “Often developers need to implement rendering techniques, post processing effects, etc. that don’t come bundled with the engine.” You have to do some of it yourself, which means ITS VIABLE. Again, not on parity, but viable. Again, not feature complete, not as polished, but viable.

And on streaming “Of the above, most are relatively straightforward to implement”, meaning that users can already do this, the article even mentions how much of the ground work is just handed to you. I’m not arguing the point on if this should be fully implemented by the dev team to come fully prepackaged, im simply telling you that you’re wrong about godot not being viable. It should come by default, but it’s still easy to do. Again, if your point is it should come default, I agree with that.

I can tell you’re just being argumentive for the sake of it, so I’m just going to ignore you from here on out. You aren’t adding anything constructive and you’re not capable of reading something YOU linked, so you’re not worth the time or effort.

I remember when I first started using Unity years and years ago and people like you would just talk shit about it non stop. I remember when I started using blender in middle school and people like you should just talk shit about it.

AdmiralShat,

I didn’t block you, you’re the one being toxic

Jaysyn, do gaming w Unity reportedly told dev Planned Parenthood and children's hospital are "not valid charities"
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

Devs may as well bite the bullet & switch engines mid development now, because I'm not buying any new games made in Unity.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • 1984,
    @1984@beehaw.org avatar

    I am not a developer but don’t they have to state the engine at the beginning of the game? Really no idea, just guessing, as I’ve seen a lot of games with it.

    CharlesReed, (edited )

    That would involved buying/downloading the game first to find out though (which would defeat the purpose of avoiding Unity in the first place). Out of curiosity I checked some of the games on my Steam wishlist to see if Steam had the engine listed anywhere, and unfortunately they don't. A few had it under the fine print copyright section under System Requirements, but not all. Because of this whole thing, it would be nice if Steam would include that as well, like in the sidebar where they list the developer and publisher. I can't speak for other pc storefronts though.

    OMGparticles, (edited )
    @OMGparticles@partizle.com avatar

    You can go to the SteamDB page for a game, click App Info on the left, then look for the “Detected Technologies”. This will usually tell you what they’re using if it’s not a custom engine. You can use the Augmented Steam or SteamDB browser extensions to get a direct link to the SteamDB page from a game’s store page.

    Also, SteamDB has a page here with aggregate data of how much each detected engine is used across Steam. Unity currently accounts for over half of the games using known engines (snapshot).

    Edit: For non-Steam games you could check out IGDB.com. It has crowd-sourced data on all video games, including which game engine was used.

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