The demo felt pretty good. I only needed a short time with it to realize I'd probably end up grabbing it. Reminded me a lot of steel rising which was a pretty decent experience.
Relic rotations, a gazillion daily / weekly capped reputations / activities, various unique events, and of course the freaking "battlepass" bullshit, which ultimately made me finally leave for good. The game became simply a chore, a job, it tried to semi-force / lure me into playing with timed garbage instead of providing actual incentives. I played a lot but if you constantly have to fear pressure me into playing instead of making it my own choice then I'm quitting, because that completely kills the fun out of the gameplay & story. D4 currently does the same garbage but even worse and if all multiplayer titles are going to end this way then they'll die just like the mmorpg genre. Like, right now I don't have internet for over a week now, possibly for more weeks to come, thanks to Vodafone being hot garbage. I don't even want to know how much I would miss out on if I can't play, or even simply if I don't want to play a specific game at the moment. And if a game makes me miss out on shit, then I simply move on. Because what is the point if I can't get everything that could technically be available? So yeah, if I feel I have to play, then I won't. Simple as that.
If we’re being completely honest, all of those are in rotation and although some items cannot be grinded for during that time, it can still be traded for, so it is not an issue.
Dailies and weeklies are here to keep you engaged. They provide some rewards, but I wouldn’t call them mandatory to progression. They’re more of a side-bonus.
Personally, whenever I’m bored of warframe I just leave. After a while new quests appear, new guns and all of the other stuff to work toward.
The best part is that whenever you return you’re pretty much at the same place as you left it off.
Hence I personally see no rush in getting all of the stuff I want. I’ve been playing this game on and off since 2013 and have yet to experience fomo with it, because of the things listed above.
Destiny, for example, is much much worse. Especially after they decided that it’s a good idea to vault planets and remove quests. Made me leave the game, I just can’t deal with it and have life stuff to do. Mind you, D2 is easily one of my most most favourite games.
Same with gacha games like Genshin or Honkai 3rd. It’s exhausting.
I can't trade due to direct player interaction being difficult for me, especially when they're negative / hostile, which happened on my first and only attempt at trading, and the game does not have an auction house.
I tried coming back, but then the stupid battlepass thingy immediately go on my nerves by dictating what I should do, then I saw the stuff that I would miss, thought about the stuff I already missed and immediately left again.
Warframe’s “BP” system is the most non-intrusive out of all games with BP that I’ve played.
I was disappointed when saw it initially as well. But on closer inspection, it is completely free, you’re not being locked to playing on a certain week to get the missions done and, what I recently found out after years of not playing the game, is that old rewards return to BP on low levels.
This essentially makes it very easy to catch up should you choose to.
About player interactions, toxicity happens, but it happens in every online game. You can’t really expect an MMO game to not have player interactions.
I too am a little anxious when dealing with people I don’t know, but it really is not that big of a deal. If you’re actually having problems with it, consider seeking advice from a specialist.
Having an auction house, although is nice from a convenience point of view, could be going against the design of the game. A bazaar type of trading has it’s own charms, and some people may prefer it. Either one is fine with me, personally.
Most of what you’ve listed don’t sound like problems with the game itself, but rather the game being just not for you. And it is normal.
And trust me, there are quite a few problems with warframe, especially for newer players. Like the story not being explicit, you being thrown into the game with no real set goal, game mechanics not being explained properly and so on, which makes you have wiki open on the side to play the game without issues.
Warframe’s “BP” system is the most non-intrusive out of all games with BP that I’ve played.
That's cool, but irrelevant. It was the first BP game I played and left a terrible taste in my mouth. But I guess if that's your metric then I can get your point. I play video games for way too long to get used to all those predatory tactics though. I think especially after seeing how the mmorpg genre got ruined by similar changes over the years that people tried to defend I am certainly a little more sensitive about this swapping over to other multiplayer games and even singleplayer games. Because ultimately it drives the whole gaming industry into a direction that is unhealthy and will ultimately destroy it. I would like this to not actually happen, but I guess I'm also a very opinionated person.
Most of what you’ve listed don’t sound like problems with the game itself, but rather the game being just not for you. And it is normal.
Who, in terms of players, would actually benefit from this over a system that isn't using predatory methods? Why not make the rewards available at all times instead? There's really no reason to have even a BP system like this to not be simply tied to local progression instead. This is just shoving the blame to the players who suffer from shitty decisions like this. Things like the wiki requirement are problematic, but minor in comparison.
What are your criteria for a mechanic being predatory?
Heed to my long explanation of what I would consider predatory or not:
In my opinion, a predatory mechanic is one that is set to make you spend more money by means of obfuscation.
So, obstacles to progression, purchases with no affirmation, currency obscuring and etc.
In this way, for example, if an item can only be bought with non-tradable premium currency, the currency is predatory. However, if the currency is tradable then it isn’t predatory because it’s main purpose lies in trading and not obfuscation.
Same way gacha is also a predatory mechanic, gambling is predatory, and loot boxes. Because you don’t explicitly know what you’re getting and how much it costs you to get the thing you want.
Therefore to me a free battlepass cannot be considered predatory, as it’s main purpose is to increase level of player engagement.
I would agree, however, that making BP permanent would make it a much nicer feature. As in, you can work towards completing previous BPs you’ve missed. Otherwise it’s kinda meh. I don’t particularly like them anyways, it’s a pretty lazy way of achieving that goal.
What are your criteria for a mechanic being predatory?
Anything that uses shady practices & dark patterns to lure / coerce you into something by triggering certain aspects of our brain. Lootboxes would be a krass example of this, as it is basically gambling, but there's a lot of more subtle tactics too, which I already explained to a degree.
The battlepass dictates what you should do and when you should do it. No internet? Sick? Or just want to play something else? Tough luck I guess. For me this just causes me to feel pressured to play, and not even play what I want or how I want, just to get some artificial points to eventually get the rewards that the game will pack away if I am too slow to finish it in time, or simply unable to do achieve certain tasks (like some of the group content, or just other annoying open world crap).
The only benefit of having the BP sort of a rotational multiplayer feature is that everyone is doing it and its activities at the same time, but that isn't really all that important imo, especially if you primarily play solo. But even with friends it wouldn't really matter whether there's help for that type of content for just one of them, just like people can help in quests they've already done in the past as well.
Its funny how everything you mentioned is an evergreen system and not the actual FOMO comtents in the game
Lets start of by relics, the vaulting system is literally there to make them easier to grind and the vaulted relics are always rotating back trough an even easier way to farm, not a FOMO
Reputations? The one system that is meant to be played in the long term and wont ever leave? Do you even know what FOMO means?
The Unique events that are Rotating back in every year? Because they are seasonal content? And even then what theh offer is interwinned so other contents can offer their rewards as well? Sure I mean if you only play for 3 days a Year, surely its a FOMO but… really?
The Battlepass I assume you mean Nightwave because its the only thing even close to it and even then, it’s not… Yeah another long term grind that you can literally complete to the max by just casually Playing (which is how I do it) 1 hour a day and it’s rewards are constantly re-used in other reward Pools? Like Literally I have obtained 3 “Final Reward” Items as normal rewards in next seasons already, not a FOMO
Uhh ok what the actual fuck on the following discourse, the Game literally requires nothing off you to progress and enter the latest content, it’s always followed that Philosophy, whatever you feel like it’s a chore or dont want to spend your time on… Dont? You wont be locked out of anything lol
But sure at this point its clear we have different definitions of FOMO so, go ahead play whatever you feel like
It's funny how you try to discredit the very feelings that I experience.
Lets start of by relics, the vaulting system is literally there to make them easier to grind and the vaulted relics are always rotating back trough an even easier way to farm, not a FOMO
You have to wait months, sometimes years for stuff to come back. Then you have just a short time window that is purely based on insane grind due to stupid RNG mechanics to actually get the relics you want. And with every additional frame they add the pool of relics increases, making the things you need even rarer.
Reputations? The one system that is meant to be played in the long term and wont ever leave? Do you even know what FOMO means?
It requires me to log in frequently to grind to not miss out on the content locked behind it. Whether I want to do it right now or not doesn't matter, and when I want to do it I have to constantly wait. If you can't see how stupid this is then I don't know how to help you.
The Unique events that are Rotating back in every year? Because they are seasonal content? And even then what theh offer is interwinned so other contents can offer their rewards as well? Sure I mean if you only play for 3 days a Year, surely its a FOMO but… really?
If you lock very mandatory stuff for various builds behind something that only happens once for a short time per year, then yes, that's causing FOMO. And no, the original events only happened once, including their participation rewards.
The Battlepass I assume you mean Nightwave because its the only thing even close to it and even then, it’s not… Yeah another long term grind that you can literally complete to the max by just casually Playing (which is how I do it) 1 hour a day and it’s rewards are constantly re-used in other reward Pools? Like Literally I have obtained 3 “Final Reward” Items as normal rewards in next seasons already, not a FOMO
Funny because even the devs like Steve called it a battlepass. If you require me to play daily then that makes the game a job, a chore. That's not casual. It dictates when and how I have to play and "incentivizes" me through rewards I'll miss out on. That's absolutely not how things should be done. An incentive is something that makes me WANT to play, not something that makes me feel that I HAVE to play.
But sure at this point its clear we have different definitions of FOMO so, go ahead play whatever you feel like
I will. But I was fully expecting some kneejerk fanboy getting defensive about it anyway. lol
It’s funny how you try to discredit the very feelings that I experience.
Discredit what? I said everything you mentioned is an evergreen system, that wont ever go away, it’s objectively and literally the contrary to a FOMO
You have to wait months, sometimes years for stuff to come back. Then you have just a short time window that is purely based on insane grind due to stupid RNG mechanics to actually get the relics you want. And with every additional frame they add the pool of relics increases, making the things you need even rarer.
A whole month would be short if you werent able to get the Aya for that particular rotation beforehand, which you can, stack as much of it as you may want, you can always use the relics after it ends, the reason for the timegate it’s literally to make it easier to grind, if all Prime Warframes were avaiable at the same time, Recruitment would be hell and you overall chances of acquiring anything die away, just like it would be if the Vaulting system didnt exist and we had the 2 Thousand Types of Relics inundate all Drop Tables
It requires me to log in frequently to grind to not miss out on the content locked behind it. Whether I want to do it right now or not doesn’t matter, and when I want to do it I have to constantly wait. If you can’t see how stupid this is then I don’t know how to help you.
My brother in Christ, you are literally talking about Progression, that is not FOMO, You can do it whenever and the content behind it wont ever go away, you’re not “missing out” you’re “yet to achieve” by any means, it’s like any other Reward in the Game, do a Mission, Get Rewards but there are more Missions to complete before the reward, but it’s never going away
If you lock very mandatory stuff for various builds behind something that only happens once for a short time per year, then yes, that’s causing FOMO. And no, the original events only happened once, including their participation rewards.
You are straight up wrong and you know it, or lying now. Not a single Relevant Event Reward is unobtainable or otherwise inaccessible. All “original events” rewards (60 60 Mods) are available elsewhere in the star chart, or trading, Acolyte Mods are available in Deimos, Hunter Munitions on Ghouls Purge which happens every 4 Fucking days. Not to mention reruns of those events are pointless since they were testings for new gamemodes, that are all implemented as regular gameplay by now. If you were to have mentioned Scarlet Spear you would be barely close to right and even then it’s rewards arent exclusive or locked to it. There’s no FOMO other than Lore or Experience which you didnt even mention.
Funny because even the devs like Steve called it a battlepass. If you require me to play daily then that makes the game a job, a chore. That’s not casual. It dictates when and how I have to play and “incentivizes” me through rewards I’ll miss out on. That’s absolutely not how things should be done. An incentive is something that makes me WANT to play, not something that makes me feel that I HAVE to play.
Battle Pass, by definition, is a Monetization system, in Warframe it is not, thus it falls in the category of “Event” as any other with it’s own Progression. As funny as what Steve said is. I never said you need to play Daily to Complete it, I just mentioned that I do complete it by playing casually (i.e not specifically aiming to complete it) by my margin of 1 Hour Max a Day (not even every day) therefore, if you were to either play for longer than me, or specifically play to complete it, you sure as shit would have no problems on doing that in one sit of the whole 8 Months a specific instance lasts, because all the Weeklies you “miss”, you can unlimitedly recover, you literally can do 8 Months of Objectives in 12 Hours if you have the guts to it, there’s nothing of FOMO and even if you did achieve no rewards in one Instance, you can and will get them in another like i’ve been enabled to
I will. But I was fully expecting some kneejerk fanboy getting defensive about it anyway. lol
Am I a fanboy? Sure enough, as long as it continues to be the most Pro-Consumer Game with the best Monetization Practices out of anything available in the Market Today I will continue to cheer it, I like to discuss it and I think we are here for that? But that aside i’ll continue to be critical about it on it’s goods and bads, which for the latter, FOMO is not one of them
Until the aya neo system (or whatever the hell it is), I agreed on the vaulting for relics. Now? They cycle regularly enough and you can often buy the stuff you don’t have. But, more importantly, it pretty much killed the platinum market so you can generally buy the frame you REALLY want for fairly cheap.
I strongly dislike nightwave. But it is generally cosmetics and slots that you are missing out on and it is “free”. I still prefer the old alert system where I just check what is worth doing for extra resources, but I can see how that would have cannibalized the void relic playerbase.
The Baro rotation I feel is a lot closer to FOMO. But you can also “just” buy some cosmetics for Tennocon and get access to the entire catalog. Which is a different kind of “uhm…” but has the added bonus of, again, breaking the platinum market.
Because that is mostly the path to “catch up” or avoid grinding something obnoxious like eidolon hunts or caches. Grind some relics to get ducats or to sell on the market for platinum (or just get a prime access pass…). Then use that platinum to buy the shit you can’t be bothered to grind for from other players.
The annual arcane event is definitely FOMO though. Basically the only chance to get arcanes in a timely fashion and if you don’t engage you are looking at thousands of plat or just ignoring them.
At the end of the day: Its a live game. I personally feel Warframe is a lot more mellow. But they aren’t for everyone. And the “achievement hunter” mindset of needing 100% completion in everything really broke live games/MMOs for a lot of people.
At the end of the day: Its a live game. I personally feel Warframe is a lot more mellow. But they aren’t for everyone.
If we compare it to the worst titles out there, sure.
And the “achievement hunter” mindset of needing 100% completion in everything really broke live games/MMOs for a lot of people.
That is one aspect I loved about GW2. Their entire "achievement" system is basically a giant catalogue of collectibles to treasure hunt, which you can partake in whenever you feel like it. The game has a lot of other weaknesses but that is the thing I really liked as a completionist, because there was always something to do & aim for, but without any pressure behind it.
Been a couple years since I messed around with GW2 but:
GW2 has seasonal events. And (possibly removed a week ago?) daily login rewards that “penalize” you for skipping a day. And the Living Story used to be full on “never again” but became “login to unlock it”?
And I would probably classify the world bosses as being comparable to the Warframe void relic alerts. Unless you are part of the zerg you aren’t going to be beating them or having any chance at their drops and they, by definition, happen on a cycle that can make it hard to progress if you have other responsibilities.
But yeah. I am genuinely not seeing a difference outside of the examples I listed above (arcane event, mostly). Basically everything is grindable/“you can check it off” if you just play the game. If you miss a cycle you can do an RMT to grab it rather than wait for it to come back around. I forget if you can trade for gems(?) in gw2 or not, but it is the idea of “I was busy last month so I missed a chapter of the living story and now need to buy it” versus “I was busy last month and forgot to buy a dozen void relics to grab Volt Prime”.
I’ve seen basically no marketing for this game. Really weird considering that it’s EA. Not every game can pull and Apex Legends and surge in player counts without marketing.
Devs need to chill with all these features. I was playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider and it runs at upscaled 4k60 and looks miles better than this one.
Of course, this is from a small studio and using nanite and lumen probably saved them a lot of time, but what good is that time saved if most PC gamers can’t play it and it abuses upscaling technology by running it at 720p and looking all fuzzy.
And before people start blaming Series S, even PS5 port struggles to run at 720p60 in this game as well as FFXVI, which is a PS5 exclusive. Jedi Survivor does the same and I can’t understand why do they think this is what we want from games in the current gen.
Its becuase they do not Balance Game Art and Graphics,Game Art gives games their Atmosohere and much more so it dies not look like a Unreal Asset Flip.
A Tool no matter how good is only as good as the wielder.
True. Though FFXVI, for example, has its own art style which looks pretty good, but whatever they’re doing with the tech is just too much for the PS5. Somewhere it feels like the devs overestimated the capabilities of these consoles.
It’s a FPS with bullet, grenade replaced by magics. It follows some streamlined lite metroid component for unlocking new ability for traversal and encounters/puzzles are paced pretty okay. Quite a bit of platforming section as well if you like that kind of thing. I have not finished the game yet but it seems to be a pretty short run and can finish over the weekend(no mtx). It does look really nice when you have the rig to run.(I used default settings it picked for my 6800XT and never feel jitter or frame rate dip problem.)
When kid, I used to see these games (GOW, COD, battlefield,etc) and be impressed, saying to myself that i will play these great games one day but I never really had a computer or console that could be able to play these games and i lost that spark. Now, i don’t care anymore.
If you still feel that joy and happiness seeing these games enjoy this sensation, because it will one day dissappear.
Priorities will always shift as we move though the different seasons of life, and for sure the launch of a big marquee title that I’m interested in doesn’t have the same drama it did, now that I’ve lived though a couple-few decades of them. I have to say, though, that I still love the experience of being transported to a fantasy setting, or exploring a strange new world with friends, or testing my skill against other players. I’m looking forward to when I can introduce the hobby to my kid, and share that joy with him.
Take that up with Games Workshop I guess. The average Space Marine does wear one. Rule of cool I guess. That nonsense has been seeping into other races figurines now, and it is stupid imo.
Characters faces are sometimes shown to humanize the character, to help the player feel closer to the character, so the player is not confused about who that character is, etc.
Sometimes the character model uses the likeness of a real person, and the contract with that person dictates that the face must be visible for all or a large portion of the gameplay.
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