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NigelFrobisher, do gaming w Then vs Now

I’ve written software professionally for two decades and I’m still in awe of the people who used to wring every last drop out of 512kb of memory, a floppy drive and 16 colours on the Amiga 500.

butterflyattack,

I played some pretty good games on the 48k spectrum back in the day. My first computer was a zx81 with 1k ram, it was a bit challenging to do anything interesting with it - but people still wrote games for the thing.

MadSurgeon,

While true that it’s impressive, now games have to be made to work on variable screen sizes with different input controllers, key mappings, configurations, more operating systems, with more features than ever. It’s an absolute explosion of complexity.

Even making a 2D game for today’s hardware is more difficult than making a 2D game for Gameboy.

DadVolante,
@DadVolante@sh.itjust.works avatar

Honest question, is that true? It’s my understanding that developing a 2D game today would be a simpler task than for a system from the 90s due to so many improvements in development software.

mojofrododojo, do gaming w Then vs Now
@mojofrododojo@lemmy.world avatar

Brian Provinciano made retro city rampage, then, crammed it into an NES cart. I don’t think this argument is really valid.

Also, really, the breast milk bit? we don’t want to work with females? what is that shit.

Daefsdeda,

I think it is more about the harassment allegations.

mojofrododojo,
@mojofrododojo@lemmy.world avatar

…?

do you not understand that internal and external harassment has been a huge problem in gamedev? at many many studios?

I’m getting too involved for this meme I guess.

kilgore_trout,

These types of allegations only were made public in recent years and related to recent events.

Even if harassment was an issue even in the 90s, we didn’t hear about it.

Daefsdeda,

Did I say anything about about these things? I just said it was about all the allegations and not about not wanting to work with females.

EnderMB,

Do you have any recent examples? Am genuinely curious, given that it’s something that’s been a problem in the game’s industry for a long time, particularly at places like Activision.

Daefsdeda,

Honestly, I am trying not to keep up to date on bad shit. Yeah if a company really sucks I won’t support it but I aint looking that shit up.

jadedwench,

We are women. Not “females”.

mojofrododojo,
@mojofrododojo@lemmy.world avatar

Totally, that’s what I’m trying to lampoon, sorry if the sarcasm didn’t come through on that aspect. I maintain my premise, there’s a tremendous amount of harassment devs put up with for the ‘privilege’ of working in the games industry, a key aspect that makes me support unions and worker organization.

Grain9325,

That incident happened in Activision Blizzard. One of the terrible harassments women had to suffer there.

Xer0,

Shut your mouth and hand over your milk.

uis, do gaming w Then vs Now
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Play Xonotic. I get 200 fps on Intel HD Graphics 2000.

omnomed,

Also add Red Eclipse to the queue and get lost in the adrenaline this week.

Mango,

I absolutely love Xonotic! This is my hype song! youtu.be/pLKo5TitJm4?si=wDW8dQCpbaraiNZP

YouTube knows what I like. https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/13037a35-2ea7-4c02-b3ff-5dd24dfe8f2c.jpeg

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

What server do you play on and when?

Mango,

I don’t have a computer ATM. I lost everything over fake criminal charges.

Haha, do gaming w Then vs Now

That last one really got me though hahaha

ramsgrl909, do gaming w How can it be so bad?

Every other time I play Chivalry 2 I get an ad pop-up (or 2) mid duel. Maybe I should just re-buy on Steam…

chicken, do gaming w Then vs Now

Very rose tinted glasses. I remember horrifying cache corruption bugs that locked you out of certain game areas permanently on that save, random illegal operation exceptions crashing games (no autosave btw), the whole system regularly freezing and needing to be completely restarted, games just inexplicably not working to begin with on a regular basis because of some hardware incompatibility and the internet sucked for finding fixes then and patches weren’t a thing so you were just screwed.

I would say that games not all being written in C and assembly trying to squeeze out every possible performance efficiency with nothing but dev machismo as safeguards is in fact a good thing.

uis,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

Here’s revelation: most game engines are written in C(++)

chicken,

Yes, but they are made by different people and all those bugs have been worked out over time. The people actually making the games are doing so at a higher level with more safeguards and it shows.

Skullgrid, do gaming w Then vs Now
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

Games back then : created by 1 to 4 people with autism because they wanted to have fun on a computer

Games now : driven by dickheads that just left business school at the whims of billionaire conglomoration funds.

mossy_,

I miss when games used to be good. Anyone 'member Vampire Survivors, Lethal Company, Bug Fables? Developers these days just can’t compare.

Skullgrid,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

now that’s survivor bias

EDIT : here’s the fun thing, Lethal company would have been a mod back in the day

mossy_,

Is your point that developers today aren’t as good/benevolent/whatever as devs back in the day? I’m saying (sarcastically, I suppose) that the same type of developers exist today. What does survivor’s bias have to do with it? Is my point moot because GMOD exists?

Skullgrid,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

Your point is moot because there is an unending hose of indie games being created and knowing that 2 gems exist doesn’t mean the rest of the cottage industry measures up to the things being achieved earlier, and nor does said indie scene have a similar rate of success as the old industry back then.

mossy_,

What are you, a shareholder? Why does the ‘rate of success’ matter? I didn’t list three games because there were only two gems.

It’s like being at the library and saying “fantasy authors will never compete with what JK Rowling was writing, just look at how many books are here!”

Skullgrid,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

it’s survivor bias because having one or two good games in a tidal wave of indie bug riddled, knockoff messes isn’t exactly the same thing as the innovations from back in the day. Some asshole’s Amnesia knockoff or twin stick shooter being good is hardly surprinsing when 5000 of them come out daily.

Acters,

Tbf, games were easier to create using in-game functions and logic that was created for another game. Modding a whole rework was easier than making the entire game from scratch. Undeniably lethal company is similar in look and feel but it has better game play than some mods.

bob_lemon,

Exactly, creating a mod for half-life or similar titles was simply the easiest way to get a decent working 3d fps engine without coding it yourself.

Skullgrid,
@Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

the tools these days make it basically the same to work a mod or an inde game.

xantoxis, (edited ) do gaming w Then vs Now

deleted_by_author

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  • dovah,

    This is referring to a real event: thegamer.com/activision-blizzard-breast-milk-stol…

    GunValkyrie,

    This is very meta.

    RealFknNito, do gaming w Then vs Now
    @RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar
    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    “Because it’s easy… And it does a lot of damage.”

    RIP_Cheems,
    @RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

    Great happy souls refrence.

    Texas_Hangover,

    Disgruntled kitty isn’t gruntled.

    RIP_Cheems,
    @RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

    BECAUSE IF BUYING ISNT OWNING THE PIRATING ISNT STEALING.

    Frigid,

    It seems like a clever qoute when you first hear it, but stealing a rental or a lease is still stealing.

    deweydecibel, do gaming w Then vs Now

    Game developers then

    Triple A Game developers now

    So it’s outright admitting the comparison is nonsense?

    Skullgrid,
    @Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

    No, because Rollercoaster tychoon and sharewere were AAA games back in the day.

    Toneswirly, do gaming w Then vs Now

    Fuck the haters. 80s game devs were creating beauty out of nothing.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    I wasn’t exactly old enough to have experienced this, but I know there was a time that if you wanted to play a PC game, you didn’t buy it on a floppy or a disc; you got a book with code that you had to type up and compile yourself. If you did more than just follow the book, you could understand it and change it to be whatever you wanted!

    This is why I wish everything was open source. If I don’t like the way something is done, I can tweak it. Any part of it and make it perfect for me.

    adam_y,
    @adam_y@lemmy.world avatar

    That was more the zx spectrum / commodore era and even then you could still buy most things on tape. Magazines used to print code though.

    At least until the cover tape wars started. Then it got crazy.

    But yeah, I remember taking shifts with my pal typing lines in. One mistake and you got to learn the joys of debugging at age 7.

    Kolanaki,
    !deleted6508 avatar

    The closest I got was learning that the TI-85 I used in my algebra classes had BASIC programming in it, and I found the code for a rogulike dungeon crawler kinda like Eye of the Beholder specifically for the calculator. At the time, I already knew plenty of BASIC myself so I could tweak things as I found bugs or generally didn’t like the stats of an item.

    Fal,
    @Fal@yiffit.net avatar

    I’m a software dev now, and I always like to say that ti basic was my first programming language.

    Remember drug wars?

    ChickenLadyLovesLife,

    Lemmings was not the product of a huge corporation.

    Aceticon,

    You can go to GOG, buy some really old game, install it on a PC, play it and after a few minutes go: “How the fk was I so dazzled with this shit back then?!”

    At least for me, whilst most such game were A LOT of fun back then, almost all of them feel kinda meh nowadays, the graphics-heavy ones because they look like shit now compared to even games from 10 year ago and the other ones because their game mechanics are so shallow and simplistic (and often oh so reliant on reaction times) compared to even what Indie companies have been doing in the last couple of decades.

    Yeah, the memory of the fun that was had survived the passage of time, but most of those games pale in comparisson to games I’ve played in the last 2 decades. Beware of confusing the two like the sterotypical old person who complains “Music was much better when I was young, before Rock-n-Roll”.

    PS: I’m not even especially big on fancy graphics but instead prefer complex multi-layered game mechanics, so the kind of games from back then I still can enjoy today are things like Civilization.

    Toneswirly, (edited )

    I’m not talking about comparison to modern expectation; I’m saying that devs were scrappier, had less established frameworks of design and technology, and still created a beautiful cultural moment

    Aceticon,

    Yeah, I mostly agree with that.

    Mind you, the biggest hindrance the create something special back then was technical, nowadays it’s time: codebases are far more massive nowadays and the work that goes into making assets (sprites, models, audio, animation and so on) that go with the code in a modern game is gigantic compared to back then (or, alternativelly, if done with reusable assets you get just another of hundred of similar-loooking low-buget indie games).

    Even something like Bioshock with it’s unique vision was already a massive piece of work when it comes to game assets, though artistically (and as a game too) it’s a masterpiece, IMHO.

    I actually made a handfull of games back in the early 90s (a minesweeper clone for the ZX Spectrum done in Assembly and never published, and a Tic-Tac-Toe game for the PC done in C that I sold to a small magazine and did got published) and then started working on game making a few years ago, and definitelly the programing work has expanded in terms of size (with still some down-to-the-metal technically complex stuff like shader programming) but the asset creation work has massivelly exploded (no wonder AAA games have bugets in the hundreds of millions of dollars range).

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    “How the fk was I so dazzled with this shit back then?!”

    Lack of games to compare to, mostly. For instance, how many games could you compare Warcraft to, back in 1994? Probably only Dune II. By 1999, any RTS game would be compared to Starcraft, Command and Conquer, Age of Empires, Total Annihilation and possibly others. “Doom clone” remained the definition of FPS for roughly 3 years. Meanwhile, every platformer since the late 80s was compared to half the catalogue available on the NES. Something something “learning from others’ mistakes, standing on the shoulders of giants”

    Not every old game is a gem, just like not every modern game is trash. One of my personal old favorites that holds up well is Jedi Outcast. Does a better job at making you feel like a lightsaber wielding jedi than Force Unleashed

    Aceticon,

    Also, Suspension Of Disbelief worked extra hard back then and nowadays it’s a bit more lazy… ;)

    beefbot, do gaming w Then vs Now

    Problems with game developers might better be understood as problems with capitalism, to paraphrase Ted Chiang

    beefbot,

    We can’t update games or refactor code to make it smaller bc our bosses demand we constantly work harder, better, faster, stronger. They force us into games that require more expensive hardware bc the entire tech industry depends on people upgrading every other year. And it’s online constantly bc we hoover up player data for our new profit centre where we sell all your data.

    And now they made a meme that deflects blame off them and onto devs, who have way more contact w the public than anonymous rich people

    Texas_Hangover,

    CaPiTaLiSm HNNNNNGGGG!

    Capitalism was a thing back before games got shitty too.

    vaultdweller013,

    Qhile that is true the effects of it were lesser since it was more niche. Plus some of the best games are still in their own weird niche, ive been playing STALKER GAMMA which is a free modpack for a free mod, and help I am being consumed! I DREAM OF REPAIR KITS AND GUN ANIMATION, HNNNNNNGH KILL MONOLITH!

    NoSpiritAnimal,
    @NoSpiritAnimal@lemmy.world avatar

    Enshittification is just another name for the type of capitalism America practices.

    Everything gets worse because it’s not profitable to stay good when there are only 147 umbrella corps worldwide. Capitalism doesn’t reward innovation in products when monopolies exist, it rewards innovations in minutiae of existing products.

    See also: DLC, Premium Passes, Microtransactions, Seasonal Content, Free-to-Play*, Ads in AAA tier games and everywhere else, Subscriptions, and every other shitty innovation the market (no not consumers, shareholders) rewards.

    That’s to say nothing of how these companies extract the value of their employees labor and then lay them off to keep turnover at whatver level the coke addicts in the c-suite have determined is best. Crunchtime, harrassment, fuck man look at Bobby fucking Kotnick and his blizzard shitshow.

    uis,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    Tetris: hold my beer

    Socialism intensifies

    Laticauda, do gaming w Then vs Now

    I love when gamers hyperfixation only on the bad examples while ignoring the existence of game companies that still do good work. Why elevate the ones doing things right when we can give all our attention to the ones doing things wrong?

    Duamerthrax,

    I mean this is comparing modern AAA game devs with what would have been considered AAA at the time. I think it’s a fair comparison in that regard, but by manpower, 90’s ID might be more similar to today’s New Blood.

    Zink, do gaming w Then vs Now

    I think in the past the actual devs were more accessible, and their skills visible and admirable. Kind of like how video games themselves were more of a techy nerdy thing.

    Today you have humongous teams with the work spread over hundreds of people. We hear from their community managers and marketing teams rather than reading the coders’ opinions. And just like the big games are more of a safe corporate product, they are more mainstream.

    Alexstarfire, do gaming w Then vs Now

    What a horrible take. Game devs were so bad at one point in the past they almost killed the entire market. Classic survivorship bias here.

    bort,

    Game devs were so bad at one point in the past they almost killed the entire market

    which event are you refering to?

    fsxylo,

    There was a period of time when a massive influx of shovelware was released. Think stuff like the ET game. No one wanted to buy it, and the industry almost became a bust. Nintendo came in and almost single handedly revived the entire industry by releasing novel, high quality games like donkey kong. This is why Nintendo is a modern household name and why you mostly see atari in museums.

    turmacar,

    Also the Atari name/trademark/copyright got sold, and mergered about a dozen times. The current owners bear basically no relation to the original game company.

    _Sprite,
    @_Sprite@lemmy.world avatar

    I think he’s talking about that time when Atari buried a bunch of their games in a desert in Mexico because no one was buying them

    Leafhouse,

    New Mexico, the American state. Not Mexico the country.

    _Sprite,
    @_Sprite@lemmy.world avatar

    Myb

    Buck,

    Not the entire market, only the American one. Everywhere else was doing fine.

    Skullgrid,
    @Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s because the business assholes flooded the market with shitty games that cost $120 (adjusted for inflation) that looked like this :

    i.imgur.com/yQAWeYw.jpeg

    Not the game dev’s fault, it’s the business asshole’s fault, just like the image.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvPkAYT6B1Q

    Alexstarfire,

    Pretty sure it’s on the devs for making the buggy games though. IIRC, ET is unbeatable without cheating or playing a patched version. It’s far from the only one with problems.

    Skullgrid,
    @Skullgrid@lemmy.world avatar

    I have news for you, all software is riddled with bugs and no dev has infinite time.

    The reason some software works better than others is that people paid for it to be developed for long enough.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Pretty sure it’s on the devs for making the buggy games though.

    “Hi, you have 5 weeks to make a game based on this IP because we HAVE to ship for christmas.” - No way in hell anything remotely decent would’ve come out from 35 days of work.

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