gamingonlinux.com

sonymegadrive, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

Easy Anti Cheat - requires manual removal

Wait, so this sketchy, privacy-invading stuff remains even after a game is uninstalled?! I had no idea.

How is this stuff not classed as malware at this point?

sp3tr4l,

Oh it was initially classed as insanely intrusive malware when kernel level AC was introduced about a decade ago, by anyone with a modicum of actual technical knowledge about computers.

Unfortunately, a whole lot of corpo shills ran propaganda explaining how actually its fine, don’t worry, its actually the best way to stop cheaters!

Then the vast, vast majority of idiot gamers believed that, or threw their hands up and went oh well its the new norm, trying to fight it is futile and actually if you are against this that means you are some kind of paranoid privacy freak who hates other people having fun.

Crozekiel,

I’ve been shouting from the rooftops for years that this stuff is malware. I’m not the only one. No one listens.

mrvictory1,

EAC installation process includes “registration” of a game, and the uninstall process “unregisters” the game. If all games using EAC are uninstalled, EAC itself also should be uninstalled.

catloaf,

Wikipedia says malware is

any software intentionally designed to cause disruption to a computer, server, client, or computer network, leak private information, gain unauthorized access to information or systems, deprive access to information, or which unknowingly interferes with the user’s computer security and privacy

It does not do any of these things. Like any software, it may have vulnerabilities, and being a kernel module it can be high risk. But that’s no different from any kernel module, like your graphics driver.

michaelmrose,

It’s a much higher risk than average because games are often abandoned within one year of release and still run as long as 10-15 years later and connects to the internet and other randos on the internet. See the Call of Duty games that allow you to take over the computer of anyone who connects to your online match. It greatly degrades the security of its users.

Technically lots of things people call “malware” don’t actually do any of those things. For instance they may hijack your default search engine, pop up ads, or otherwise monetize your computer at your expense. The category that was invented by ass coverers is “possibly unwanted program” but outside of those who worry about being sued by scumbags people colloquially refer to both what you call malware AND PUPs as "malware the root of which is “bad” after all. Language being descriptive not prescriptive I think this broader definition of malware is fine.

cyberpunk007,

It unknowingly interferes with my security or privacy, 100%. It has root access. What’s it doing in there? Nowadays you’re naive to think it’s just to prevent game cheating. I guarantee they’re collecting all kinds of information.

michaelmrose,

Do you remember when Sony released cds that when inserted into Windows computer auto ran an installer that installed a rootkit that made it impossible for Windows to see any processes or files that started with a certain sequence of characters instantly turning any malware that named its files or processes similarly powerful rootkit. Oh and it installed a cd driver that made it impossible to copy their music.

Suggested removal was a full reinstall of windows.

Xttweaponttx,

Jesus christ

yamanii,
@yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

Plenty of games use it, if it uninstalled with each one then others would stop working.

cyberpunk007,

I kind of assumed it would be packaged with each game, a waste of space (but how big could it be?) but leaving a game with anti cheat a global dependency seems like a bad idea.

Mwa, (edited ) do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

W steam/valve

vordalack, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

Any program having kernel level access is spyware. This is getting ridiculous.

Mwa,

Vanguard anticheat…

gofsckyourself, do gaming w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

FYI - the owner of this site, gamingonlinux, was a mod on the !linux_gaming community until they were caught abusing their moderator powers. Then they deleted their account and complained on mastodon that it’s stupid design that mod logs are public. [Screenshot]

Instead, here’s a link to the official post steamcommunity.com/groups/…/4547038620960934857

makingStuffForFun,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

That screen shot is gold. Gaming on Linux is dead to me. Thanks for sharing. It should all be public.

deathmetal27,

What mod abuse did they do?

deathmetal27,

What mod abuse did they do?

Maxxie, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

I imagine the alternative way to combat kernel-level cheats would be asking player for all his game state data, validating it on a server?

Wouldn’t work on peer-to-peer and you’d have to do a bunch of unnecessary compute(recalculating every tick if player-generated data is possible according to game rules) but its the only way I can think of.

bitwolf,

Or bring server browsers back and let server mods handle it.

I’ve rarely, if ever, had a bad time using a server browser.

A more modern idea. Put all the chesters into the same lobbies through matchmaking

Appoxo,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Or bring server browsers back and let server mods handle it.

How will you handle competitive matchmaking? I agree for casual matchmaking though

A more modern idea. Put all the chesters into the same lobbies through matchmaking

Maybe moderm in relative termy but notnreally. One of the articles I could find on the quick is from 4 years ago: ign.com/…/cod-warzone-cheaters-are-being-matched-…

DreamlandLividity,

That does not detect things like wall hack and aim-bots that don’t modify the game state directly.

Maxxie,

Don’t tell the client what’s going on outside its vision, I suppose? Add a small buffer to compensate for latency, so wall hack would be more of a “corner hack”.

DreamlandLividity,

I mean sure, that is how some (mostly strategy and tactical) games do it, but for an FPS, figuring out where the buffer should be would be a programmers nightmare. I guess you would have to try to calculate all possible lines of sights a player could have within some buffer time (100-1000ms) and then all players that could in theory enter them… Add physics and it is practically impossible.

Also, corner hack is useful enough and it does not address aimbot. IMO the answer is some combination of human moderation and ability to play with “friends” instead of randos. E.g. you could ask people to like or dislike a player at the end of a match and try to pair players that liked each other in the past.

levzzz,

Most games already do this lol Cheats usually don’t do anything that is technically impossible to do on a vanilla client, just highly improbable

Maxxie,

True, can’t think of how would you combat a cleverly written aim-bot.

AdamBomb, do gaming w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

Excellent

Quail4789, do gaming w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

The best thing that’ll come out of this is people will realize Easy and BattleEye are kernel-level on Windows. I know so many people who calls Vanguard a rootkit then go play all the other games.

xep, (edited ) do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

I do everything important like banking etc on a separate device that isn't my gaming PC. This has been quite liberating since I worry less about invasive anti-cheat, drm etc. I realize not everyone wants to do this but it's been a nice compromise.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

That’s one way to do it, but I worry less about those things by not supporting them with my time and money.

Appoxo,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

For me anything important is done in the browser (very rarely) and mostly on the phone.

EmperorHenry, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

god damn right!

x00z, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages
@x00z@lemmy.world avatar

I wish Valve would just ban them. It’s weird to have something that looks like pure malware in a Game store.

pressanykeynow,

Luckily Valve seems to believe in freedom of decision for their users so they won’t do this. There are kernel level cheats so there are kernel level anticheats. Obviously anticheats are mostly lame in what they do so it would probably be better for them to not be kernel level. Still there are “pure malware” anticheats and Valve thinks it’s up to the user to decide if they want one, their job is to inform the user. And that’s the best approach here in my opinion.

Maestro,

They will be gone with time, but not because anything that Valve does. Microsoft is locking down the kernel after the CrowdStrike debacle. In a few years it will be impossible to run any custom kernel code.

brainw0rms, (edited ) do gaming w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages
@brainw0rms@hexbear.net avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • ruckblack,

    I hope someday that hexbear users learn how to use their words.

    SturgiesYrFase,
    @SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeesh…that might come back to bite you…

    ruckblack,

    Oh I’m so scared

    SturgiesYrFase,
    @SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

    Cool

    Alsephina,

    Me when I have to cope with not having any cool emojis

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/2c9e2904-7d1d-4c2e-af4e-646a5f5eb010.png

    thejevans, do gaming w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages
    @thejevans@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’ve been able to return some games based on news that they will be adding kernel-level anti-cheat. I’m glad Valve is doing this right.

    gofsckyourself, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

    deleted_by_moderator

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  • yamanii,
    @yamanii@lemmy.world avatar

    4 likes on him complaining that modlogs being public is something bad, cowards that only want to be shitty in the shadows.

    PyroNeurosis,

    I’m still fairly new. Where do I go for modlog drama?

    Redjard,
    @Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    There is a sub for sanity checking mod actions, aita-style.
    If you keep in mind it is for active unconfirmed situations, and that votes there are not meant to mark the cases of mod abuse, I think it can fill that niche.

    !yepowertrippinbastards

    Jtee,
    @Jtee@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow, mad because you can be held accountable. That’s sad.

    Thanks for the steam link!

    finitebanjo,

    I was going to ask why the thumbnail on this post is a hexagon shaped bear, but your comment explains it well enough.

    Blisterexe,

    the thumbnail is a hexagon bear because it’s the logo for easyanticheat, the most recogniseable anticheat

    finitebanjo,

    Well thats somewhat unnerving.

    fsxylo,

    You will love the spyware bear.

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    He used to relentlessly spam the /r/linux_gaming subreddit and argue with people there too until he deleted his reddit account lol

    mrvictory1,

    He’s still on Reddit

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    He would make another account account

    mrvictory1,

    Yes he said he made an alt but I think his main is still active? Not sure.

    NuXCOM_90Percent,

    I really don’t see a need to drag community drama everywhere. GoL is one of the biggest aggregator blogs out there for… linux gaming. Whether we should prioritize original sources over aggregators is a different discussion.

    But yeah. Liam is great for news aggregating but he is 100% the stereotypical linux gamer and has a long history of starting random shit. Still annoyed by how fast he got everyone to shit on the Duckstation devs because they didn’t want to be exploited.

    Sunny,
    @Sunny@slrpnk.net avatar

    Being a big(“great”) news aggregator doesn’t excuse bad behavior.

    NuXCOM_90Percent, (edited )

    Are you the lemmy cops? Is it your responsibility to chase any link to someone’s website across every instance and make sure people know they are a bit of a jackass?

    If you think GoL should be a banned source, take it up with the various moderators. If you think only primary sources should be allowed (which I actually agree with), that is also a discussion to be had.

    But rushing in to berate people for linking to one of the most popular news aggregators for a story that people would be interested in because you don’t like the guy who owns that site? All you are doing is discouraging people from making posts in the future.


    Which is the problem with dragging community/subreddit drama everywhere you go. It just makes the site a much more hostile place for everyone. And we really aren’t big enough to be doing that.

    Sunny,
    @Sunny@slrpnk.net avatar

    🚨 🚨 🚨 FREEZE! STOP RIGHT THERE!! 🚨 🚨 🚨

    As the official lemmy police I am arresting you for defending a mad lad caught abusing powers. You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.

    Jokes aside… I do think people should be allowed to post opinions an discuss other peoples behavior. Gol dude was caught abusing his powers, which is a disgusting thing to do, personally don’t mind him being called out for that in a post here and there. It’s not an attack on the poster, it’s a reminder to folks who the guy really is.

    I’m all for the truth, no matter who it is.

    Dremor, (edited )
    @Dremor@lemmy.world avatar

    As he said, modlogs are public, and it seems like other user retreived the trace of what you call an “abuse of power” : sopuli.xyz/comment/12732467 .

    It is in his right as a moderator to chose how he moderate the communities he has the right to. If he finds your comment pedantic and annoying, and chose to remove it, so be it.

    I’m not taking sides here. I don’t know the whole story, and I doubt anyone else here does. With the little context provided, It’d be hard to take knowingly a side.

    But in both case, this is textbook harassement as you are copy-pasting this comment on every community this is posted on. This community has a pretty clear rule against harrassement (rule 2), which you are breaching, offense for which I’ll use my g… mod given right of banning you for the time being (I’ll re-evaluate tomorrow when I’ll be less tired).

    Edit : After talking with OP via PM, a ban of 7 days was issued

    hal_5700X, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

    Nice.

    Riccosuave, do games w Steam games will now need to fully disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    Not to be annoying, but can someone please ELI5 how kernel level anti-cheat software actually works, or link good resources where I can read about it.

    scoobford,

    Eli5: your PC has different access levels a program can run at. This prevents a malicious or badly coded program from completely fucking your computer. Kernel level anti cheat runs at the lowest level access that exists under windows. It can do basically whatever it wants to your PC, and if a backdoor is coded in (happens way more than you’d think), it gives malware basically total access to your PC.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar
    conciselyverbose,

    It runs with higher priveleges than you have and can see anything that happens on your computer.

    It also creates a giant additional attack vector.

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