Like many, I’ve been playing a lot of Baldur’s Gate 3. I love the game, but part of me is already longingly looking at the Pillar of Eternity or Pathfinder games for a bit less complicated level design.
The 3d worlds are nice, but I always have the feeling like I’m a little lost.
The Pillars and Pathfinder games are both relatively daunting in terms of world size and, at least for Pathfinder, the rules are much more gritty… remember Pathfinder is a spin-off of DnD 3.5e and sticks relatively closely to that. While BG3 is based on the much more “friendly” DnD 5e rules. Pathfinder is much closer to BG2 than BG3 is, gameplay wise.
The big differences between BG3 and the other modern CRPGs is that BG3 does an exceptional job at presenting unprecedented player choice in traversal and combat. Other games have dialogue skill checks and all that but traversing the world is flat, literally practically menu driven and combat is all measurements and numbers. BG3 has free-form qualities that, in the world of video games, have so far only been utilized in immersive sims like Deus Ex and, oddly enough, I’d say the modern 3D Zeldas.
Oh, I agree on all those points. The rules are definitely easier to understand, especially compared to Pathfinder. And I do like that you are more free in how to resolve a conflict.
The thing I meant was that for me, personally, interacting with the world is daunting. Having a 3rd person view of a fully 3d world filled with tons of items to interact with and with different elevations makes it hard for me to make a mental map of the game world. It’s not such a big deal for Deus Ex (where it’s in 1st person and you can get really up close to things) or with Zelda (where the amount of stuff to interact with is a lot more sparse). In BG3 I just constantly feel like I’m lost and missing out on things that might have been hidden from view because I looked at it from the wrong angle.
It’s just me. I miss the overview of the flatter maps in those other games. It allows me to focus more on the story and the exploration funny enough.
Again, I agree with everything else. I still love the game and the design, I just realize what I’m missing from my other favorite games.
I feel you on that front. I have a Steam Deck and use it over my PC 90% of the time and even have BG3 running well on it but I prefer to sit at my desk for this game because the clutter is so dense that I need that big monitor and mouse to pixel hunt for all the little items and clicky things hidden around the world… and being able to spin that camera quickly around with a mouse while traversing is super important to catching things
Eternal Champions. Such a cool concept, a great cast of characters, and great graphics for the time. Spent so many hours playing it with my brothers growing up. Xavier was the fucking best.
I really like the hunter call of the wild. it’s not perfect visually, but there have been moments when i just stop to look around and not even care about hunting
Grids certainly don’t slow me down, though they do reduce the spectacle and I suppose lower immersion. They certainly make me more aware that I am playing a game rather than taking actions in a world that actually exists. I’d say this is a feature rather than a bug though as they are often used in games that I want to be handling in that analytic piece moving fashion.
Yea, the games I mentioned are all turn based, so I’m not sure that immersion is really what I’m looking for. I will say that the opening combats in BG3 felt very chaotic, and I guess more immersive, but I also felt like I made a lot of dumb mistakes because I was treating it more like a shooter/hack & slash, rather than thinking my moves through.
Ultimately, the world is not a grid. So while grids may be great for pure strategy games like XCom (and I really enjoyed XCom, not knocking it at all), I think a lot of people would say that for more story-focused games like RPGs, they break the immersion. Thus, BG3 (which I’m also really enjoying) does not use one. Neither do any of the party-based RPGs that I can think of off the top of my head. For me personally, it depends on the game. I am perfectly happy without one in BG3. But I enjoyed having one for XCom, and more recently for Warhammer 40k Mechanicus. I would offer that as a suggestion if you are looking for a gridded turn-based strategy game.
I’m really confused as to why everybody’s saying BG3 doesn’t have a grid. It’s not visible, but it’s there. BG3 is obviously built around a grid of hexagonal prisms as its basic building block and it shows in everything, including combat and level design. They’ve done a great job with graphics and animations to make them smooth and make it seem like the grid is not there, but it is.
Of course the ground itself needs some kind of abstraction, there is no actual computing in the real numbers. Thats not the kind of grid OP is talking about though, they mean a grid where a character uses up a single tile.
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