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riskable, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating
@riskable@programming.dev avatar

Software patents shouldn’t exist!

piecat,

Patents shouldn’t exist! Mostly.

partial_accumen,

Patents shouldn’t exist! Mostly.

We had a history before patents/copyright were enforced. It was pretty brutal for anyone trying to make a living with their creations. Take a look and see if you want to return to that.

Grass,

yeah now its brutal for anyone trying to make a living and excellent for anyone who already inherited a living and has more money than they could use in multiple lifetimes. I’d hate to go back to when it was just brutal for anyone trying to make a living.

otp,

I think the problem would be similar. The rich and powerful would be the only ones to profit off of inventions and innovations.

We still have indie game devs today. Imagine if any company could just copy an indie game and scale it up/polish a bit and get all the sales.

partial_accumen,

yeah now its brutal for anyone trying to make a living

What patent or copyright is preventing you from making a living?

ayyy,

Uhhhh…. You are aware of what topic you are posting in, right?

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

A shitty solution for a shitty situation is not a good solution

partial_accumen,

A shitty solution for a shitty situation is not a good solution

Feel free to share your revolutionary idea that will still incentivize people to create without creating a “shitty situation”.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I don’t need to come up with any revolutionary ideas, the open source folks are already creating without patenting their creations

Here’s a revolutionary idea: universal basic income. No need to prevent other people from monetizing your idea if you don’t need to monetize your idea in the first place

partial_accumen,

I don’t need to come up with any revolutionary ideas, the open source folks are already creating without patenting their creations

The largest contributors to Open Source make their money from patents and other IP. As in, they can afford to give away lots of time and effort because they make their money with IP. If IP were to be eradicated as you’re proposing, all those contributions to Open Source by those largest contributors would evaporate. Here’s the largest Open Source contributors from 2017-2020.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5014f7c3-f935-40b4-bcbb-f8364a57891d.png

source

Aatube,

✨ anarchism✨
sorry, you said revolutionary 😎 /hj

Aatube,

I agree that it's the best thing in capitalist society. I feel like if you run patents should exist, software patents should also exist, though.

TheEighthDoctor,

Patents are not the problem, they serve as a way to share the knowledge of a creation with everyone while protecting your company for a REASONABLE TIME to compensate for the RnD costs.

The problem is the distortion of the concept to fit late stage capitalism delights.

ouch,

I concur. I hope this goes to court and the judge throws those patents out.

merthyr1831, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

Software parents, specifically game mechanic parents, are fucking insane. You should see the stuff Square Enix has patented following death stranding.

I get the whole “they just reskinned my game mechanics!!!” but also: I don’t. It’s like saying Go, Draughts, Chess, etc. are copies or “infringing” on one another for being a board game set on a grid with black/white pieces.

Even the idea of intellectual property is shaky for me but at least it’s more clear cut whether you’ve directly copied or deceived someone with a similar design of a character.

Blaster_M, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

People who don’t like Palworld, maybe give a real reason? The AI stuff was made up by a salty troll who admitted later he made it up. It being “legally distinct from pokémon” isn’t a good enough reason. It having the ability to

Spoilerbutcher your Pals for resources

may be a reason to be upset about the gameplay, but then again, many, many, many RPGs have you culling the local wildlife and depopulating a nation for quests too. Neither is the Genshin Impact art style a reason to hate it. That’s just JRPG asthetics.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

The butchering thing always bugged me. Where tf do you think your chicken nuggies come from? The only difference is that we don’t let real animals have friends before we kill em

tigeruppercut,

Real animals have friends. Beef cows are slaughtered at about 1 yr old, and they don’t keep them in isolation for a year

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

I guess I should have said we don’t make friends with them. I could have also drawn attention to the awful living conditions, but getting all Dominion-y wouldn’t have the pizzazzy oomph that I was going for

ColonelThirtyTwo,

Really buggy at launch (not sure if it still is). “Pokemon with guns” is the least creative direction to take the concept. Devs reportedly don’t know how to use any sort of SCM, a basic development tool

dev_null,

People say “Pokemon with guns” as if that was some kind of core gameplay. You can play through the game without ever using them. It’s a small feature, that absolutely is there, but reducing the game to that is missing the forest for the trees.

It’s an open world crafting base building game to enjoy with co-op, that has catchable creatures like Pokemon. There is no Pokemon game that fits this niche. The guns are not important to what the game is.

ColonelThirtyTwo,

I would absolutely classify it as “core gameplay” given that it’s the primary ranged weapon of both the playable character and most of the NPCs, past the crossbow. Saying “oh just ignore the stuff you don’t like” is pretty dismissive of critique.

And don’t get me wrong - mons with base building is a good idea, which is why I played it. But IMO palworld doesn’t do much with it but put the two concepts together.

icogniito,

Its a very lazy mediocre game that only got recognition because it was ”Pokémon with guns”

I don’t like what Nintendo is doing, but I also thing palworld is a crap game

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

It definitely only got popular because of the hype re: “Pokemon with guns,” but it’s legitimately better than the game it actually copied, which is Ark. You know what’s cool about Palworld? Me and my coplayer were able to stop playing without losing everything we’ve built

Anyone who thinks Palworld is actually a Pokemon ripoff either hasn’t played Palworld or hasn’t played Pokemon

icogniito,

Gameplay wise palworld has nothing to do with Pokémon, it was simply a marketing tool for em.

As for the ark comparison I can’t comment, the one time I played it was on the early access launch day during which I refunded it within 45 minutes because it performed horribly, that was almost 10 years ago though so not sure how the current game compares

PapaStevesy,

To be fair, Genshin Impact art style could be a reason to hate it if you hate JRPG aesthetics.

Glytch,

Butchering your pals is less of a problem than enslaving other human beings.

More to the point it’s just bad. It’s incredibly grindy, has an incongruous tech tree, and the A.I. (both enemy and ally) is trash. It’s also mostly a copy of their previous game, Craftopia, which was also bad and has been in Early Access for 4 years now with no signs of ever leaving it.

I don’t hate Palworld because it’s a low effort Pokemon knockoff, I hate Palworld because it’s a low effort Ark knockoff following the same business plan of not finishing their previous game before abandoning it for their new game. At least with Ark you got to ride dinosaurs rather than store-brand Rapidash.

LANIK2000, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

Pretty sure 1 and 3 could be applied to many modern actions games. Software patents shouldn’t exist! Same with apple’s patents for specific menu animations. It’s fucking evil!

Etterra,

Any game with ranged weapons is literally this. If I’m playing Fallout 4 and shoot a raider in the head then combat is initiated. That’s literally his combat works. Fuck Nintendo and fuck bullshit patents.

Nexy, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating
@Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Its like seeing the 2 worst people fighting, I dont know who I want to to win.

slazer2au,

You don’t have to pick a side. You have no skin in this beef between big N and legally not Pokemon.

starman2112,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

legally not Pokemon

You mean Digimon? Or Monster Rancher? Or Cassette Beasts? Or Temtem? Or Shin Megami Tensei? Or Kingdom Hearts DDD? Or Ark? Or Yo-kai Watch? Or Telefang?

DarkThoughts,

Digimon was inspired by Tamagotchis though.

DuckWrangler9000,

Sorry I’m out of loop. Why is Palworld bad? If I’m reading your comment right when you say 2 worst.

LovingHippieCat, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

People need to stop supporting Nintendo at all. They’re lawsuit happy assholes who have been doing everything they can to piss away any good will they might have had. They’re the only game company out there who refuses to make enough of many of their products, like their mini NES and SNES, to meet demand because then its “exclusive”, they are the only company trying to destroy all type of emulation for Nintendo consoles, and they’re the only company who seems to actually want their older games to disappear into the ether. Edit: Oh and they fucking refuse to put their games on sale or lower their prices years afterwards. BoTW is still 60 bucks even though it’s 7 and a half years old. Fucking insane.

Fuck Nintendo.

Nuke_the_whales,

If this kind of thing bothers you, you need to stop gaming altogether. All consoles and developers.

Linktank,

Have you been lobotomized or do you just work for Nintendo?

Nuke_the_whales,

The rabid insanity towards such a non offensive post… You ok guy?

_cryptagion,

He’s just a generally shitty person in every thread he goes into.

goferking0,

It’s so surprising from an account named nuke the whales

conartistpanda,

I first read it like a sonic character name and thought wtf you were saying. Its less cool now.

Chozo,

Not sure why you got downvoted, you're absolutely right. While Nintendo is prolific in this subject, they're far from unique.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

There are many developers (indie, AA and even AAA) who don’t engage in this BS. They focus on … wait for it … making good fun games that sell well!

Imagine that!

Far from unique is irrelevant.

Chozo,

How many of those developers are also hardware manufacturers, though? Because that's what we're talking about.

The Big Three all do this.

Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

From the relevant thread comment:

All consoles and** developers**.

Valve to my knowledge doesn’t engage in patent trolling and so it’s not all hardware manufacturers.

And even with Sony and Microsoft? Do they engage in bottom of the barrel patent trolling? If anything MS has definitely been on the receiving end of patent trolls. Do they go after people who stream/make video content with their games?

Don’t get me wrong, I am not defending Sony or Microsoft. But it’s a bit strange to engage in volunteer PR for a company just because you’re a fan of the Mario series (not saying this applies to you, but this is not an unreasonable statement with respect to Nintendo fans in general).

Cethin,

Absolutely not true. All the console creators, sure, but not all developers. There are so many good developers, especially indie.

There’s issues with purchasing anything in capitalism. We have to deal with that as long as that’s the case though. It doesn’t mean Nestlé isn’t significantly worse than other campanies though, for example. There are different degrees of bad, and Nintendo is basically the top for gaming.

RiikkaTheIcePrincess,
@RiikkaTheIcePrincess@pawb.social avatar

trying to destroy all type of emulation for Nintendo consoles

Only emulation used by others. They’re happy to kang all’ the ROMs and emulators off’ a site before destroying it for everyone else, then not even sell most of the damn things. Absurd. There’s nothing good about that, not even for Nintendo themselves.

peopleproblems, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

Ok that third one, come the fuck on.

Like don’t even pretend. You could never ride nearly the number of Pokemon you can compared to Pals in Palworld.

That’s basically patenting riding a fucking horse

UnsavoryMollusk,

I hope they sue Ubisoft for Assassin’s Creed 1 after that /s

Mandy, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

I don’t want palword to win.
I just need Nintendo to loose.

otp,

Why do you need Nintendo to loose? You wouldn’t rather Nintendo to tight?

irotsoma, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating
@irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

They left it small so that it wouldn’t be worth it to fight in court and they’d either just settle for a license fee or pay the fine. But sounds like the best way would be to get the patents revoked, but that’s probably more expensive than just paying the fine due to the legal fees.

Venicon, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating
@Venicon@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck Nintendo. They get a pass so often from people when they really shouldn’t.

Someonelol,
@Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Part of the reason is because most people don’t notice the lawsuits or think this is boilerplate legal stuff that happens in the background all the time. They’re too distracted by the entertainment side of things.

TWeaK, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

Obviously this depends on the exact details of the patents, which are all in Japanese, as well as the specifics of Japanese patent laws.

However, patents only last for 20 years, and they are undermined by public disclosure before filing. The first Pokemon game came out more than 20 years ago. However^2 not all of the features in the patents were present in the original games. All 3 patents were first filed in 2021, well after many of these features were established.

The first patent is about aiming something and entering into a fight mode. This wasn’t in the original game. Aiming at enemies and entering a fight mode almost certainly existed before Pokemon (Final Fantasy perhaps). Furthermore, Palworld doesn’t really have a fight mode - it isn’t a turn based game but real time. Throwing a sphere is just one way to start a “battle” but there is no mode change between “explore” and “battle” modes because they are functionally the same in Palworld. Pokemon Go and Pokemon Let’s Go Pikachu/Eevee, which were all around in 2018, would seem to amount to public disclosure that undermines this patent.

The second patent has more detail about catching Pokemon outside of battles. This might have some elements of Palworld gameplay in it. However, again we have prior art that predates the patent.

The third patent is about riding characters. This has certainly existed in other games before Pokemon and before this patent. Off the top of my head, World of Warcraft had you riding mounts, Final Fantasy had you riding Chocobos, and Mega Man let you ride Rush.

However the big issue with all of these is that these challenges are always better off done before the patent is granted. With the patents established it is a massive uphill struggle trying to get them withdrawn. Given that each charge is only for $33,000, so about $100,000 total, I expect a settlement will be reached instead of going on this fight.

Nightweb,

If I recall correctly weren’t all the patients filed for and approved after PAL World released?

Kelly,

Given that each charge is only for $33,000, so about $100,000 total, I expect a settlement will be reached instead of going on this fight.

Unfortunately that would be the worst outcome for everyone else.

The patents need to be contested and invalidated or smaller devs will feel they can’t use these mechanics.

AkatsukiLevi,
@AkatsukiLevi@lemmy.world avatar

The third one, wouldn’t it hit Rockstar with Red Dead Redemption? After all, you do ride a animal(horse) and can easily swap in and our of 'em

Breezy,

I thought of elden ring more so of the patent. Palworld wasnt as smooth as summoning torrent, but it felt very similar.

Shanedino, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

Still better than Disney!

Bosht, do games w Palworld Developer Reveals The Pokémon Patents Nintendo Claims It's Violating

So greed. Like everyone predicted.

Beryl, do games w Guy Who Taunted Nintendo About Streaming Pirated Switch Games Before Release Now Faces $7.5 Million Lawsuit
@Beryl@jlai.lu avatar

This idiot brought this on himself AND is probably at least partially responsible for the recent crackdown on Switch emulation by Nintendo. I won’t shed a tear for him.

CosmoNova,

Not to defend leakers even a bit and Nintendo has every right to go after them legally. However, the emulation crackdown is just Nintendo flexing their legal team on small devs who’ve done everything they can to discourage leaks from spreading within their limited reach. It’s 100% on Nintendo and they themselves are acting in a legal gray zone to bully 3rd parties into giving up. If any of the emulation teams had the resources to simply deal with big N, the situation would probably look a little different.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, yes leakers are in the wrong but no, they didn’t kill emulation with their actions even when it provoked Nintendo.

wizardbeard,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Small caveat:

The first switch emulator that was taken down (I think yuzu), was justified by Nintendo as copyright infringement because people (including moderators) were sharing copyrighted material openly on their public discord. BIOS files, links to games, and early leaks.

The more recent one (Ryujinx I think) was the one that did things right, so Nintendo didn’t have that copyright leg to stand on. So instead (according to the maintainer of the Mac fork) they sent goons to the house of the head dev in Brazil… to “talk” him into taking it down.

vozercozer,
@vozercozer@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, they sent people to their house? What the fuck? Are they a video game company, or the mob?

Ghyste,

Yes.

avattar,

They are from Japan, so yakuza? They probably just hire local muscle, though.

SomethingBurger,

The Ryujinx dev is Brazilian IIRC.

skulblaka,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

You could ask the same thing of Wizards of the Coast who sent goons to a guy’s house over some Magic The Gathering cards.

We live in an age where these two things are becoming interchangeable.

Ashtear,

It was literally the Pinkertons. Long-time union infiltrators.

shani66,

God we really are beyond fucked, aren’t we?

Catoblepas,

I read an article about a leather artist who recycled secondhand Gucci (I think? It was a big name fashion brand is all I recall) bags into wallets and things like that, and despite everything being clearly labeled to make sure nobody could mistake it for an official product, they had a similar experience. I wish I could find the article again, because I don’t remember what came of it and my search skills are failing me.

ipkpjersi, (edited )

I mean, they are located in Japan, so it’s not like Yakuza don’t exist (though to be fair Yakuza don’t really target foreigners).

CosmoNova,

In 1999, Nintendo got a woman in Japan arrested over - and get this - sharing erotic fan art. I’ve read they also might’ve sent private detectives to stalk after her before the arrest, but couldn’t find anything quickly. Anyway it sparked a big shit storm and a debate about what copyright holders are allowed to do, legally and morally.

LiveLM,
Agent_Karyo,
@Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world avatar

Wow, this is kind of thing that can make one reevaluate what methods are most appropriate when dealing with corruption and oligarchs.

Ashtear,

See also: Hasbro sending the literal Pinkertons for Magic cards.

sundray, do games w Guy Who Taunted Nintendo About Streaming Pirated Switch Games Before Release Now Faces $7.5 Million Lawsuit

Look, Nintendo is bullshit, bullying innocent creators for stupid, paranoid reasons… but c’mon. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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