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sebinspace, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

Me, a hobbyist that never planned to sell anything I made: chortle my balls, Unity Tech!

hal_5700X, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@hal_5700X@lemmy.world avatar

RIP Unity. First they partnered with Ironsource. Who are the people behind InstallCore it’s a wrapper for bundling software installations. It tricks people into installing enough browser toolbars and other bloat to hurt their PCs. Windows Defender and MalwareBytes blocks it. Now Unity does this shit.

WhoRoger, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@WhoRoger@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds like another problem we have thanks to DRM and telemetry.

cypher_greyhat, do games w PS5 sales jumped 42% in the UK during August | UK Monthly Charts

There was a price cut in Europe.

CileTheSane, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Well this is bullshit but is there anything I as a non-developer can do about it?

liara,

This will probably use some well-defined api endpoint to do their telemetry check-in, so this could probably be effectively circumvented if users were willing and able to do host level overrides to specifically prevent the unity engine from phoning home

paris,

You could also imagine a malicious actor phoning home to that API to drive up “installs” for a game and make a small studio or individual deal with massive fees. If a company is making these kinds of changes against the better judgement of their user base AND their internal analysis (lots of stock was sold two weeks ago), I’m doubtful they even care to properly deal with those kinds of problems.

grue,

is there anything I as a non-developer can do about it?

Choose to play games written in Godot instead.

CileTheSane,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

And how do I know which ones those are?

puffy,

Barely any commercially successful games are written in Godot right now. But Godot keeps getting better and Unity keeps getting worse, things could look very different in a couple of years.

Angius,

Go to Godot’s website and take a look at the showcase of… pixelart platformers and PS1-graphics boomer shooters. Hope you like those two genres!

CatZoomies, (edited )
@CatZoomies@lemmy.world avatar

I checked out their site and found that Cassette Beasts was made in Godot!

godotengine.org/showcase/cassette-beasts/

This is a game I’ve had my eye on, since after playing Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, and then Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, it was a further slap in the face just how crappy the Pokemon games continue to get with each new release (it’s basically downhill after X and Y). Sure the story was good, but Scarlet/Violet was tough to enjoy with stutter, frame drops, hitching, and making me motion sick (and that’s just visuals, gameplay itself in a boring open world with no incentive to explore is also a factor). I’ve never played a video game that made me motion sick. I needed an alternative and heard about Cassette Beasts being a better game than Pokemon. I played the demo, loved it, and I was waiting for a sale. Now I’m gonna pay full price for this game to support the devs and their work with Godot.

derpgon,

Sail the high seas 🌊

EnglishMobster,

This actively hurts the developers and helps Unity.

The devs will be charged for every install. Even if that install wasn’t legitimate.

So if you pirate a Unity game, it’s no longer a victimless crime. You’re actively making the developer pay for your piracy.

Like normally, I am totally cool with piracy. But giving piracy as a solution here is actually detrimental to the developers and doesn’t hurt Unity the company at all.

kuneho, (edited )
@kuneho@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think a pirated copy of the game would call home, that’s something that hackers should patch really quickly IMO

derpgon,

Like others said, I am sure it will be one of the patches applied to the Unity games. Crackers are not really bad people, and turning off some telemetry should be a piece of cake.

MBM,

That’s even worse for the devs, because they might still need to pay Unity for your install.

TWeaK,

Don’t buy Unity games, encourage developers you like to not buy them. Not much you can do really, but hopefully the financial disincentive will put them off. Users don’t want install limits to be placed on their games, and they certainly won’t pay developers for every install.

smileyhead,

As a player, no. And I don’t recommend doing anything, this is developer tool among them.

You can donate to Godot I guess? But of course you are not the one using it.

MooseBoys, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

Starting January 1, a Unity Runtime Fee will be charged to any game that has passed a revenue threshold in the past year and a lifetime install count.

Still shitty, but at least the fee only applies if you’ve already hit the revenue threshold. Maybe this is an ill-conceived effort to raise the floor on game prices (or price out low-cost ones)? A $60 game can afford a 20-cent extra fee a few dozen times. A 99-cent game is a non-starter though.

BURN,

That’s exactly what this is. They want to price out the $3-$5 games that unity is primarily used for. They make no revenue from those since the revenue threshold never gets hit.

They’ll almost certainly lower the revenue threshold next too

XPost3000, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

Common proprietary L

AndreasChris, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

Wow that is such a bad idea… I… I’m honestly speechless. Who thought if that? I mean…

Kolanaki, (edited ) do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
!deleted6508 avatar

Oh yeah… I can’t see this being weaponed by the bad side of the consumers.

Game comes out, it does something stupid or just “woke” and pisses people off. They attack the dev by installing more copies. Company goes bankrupt. Dickhead gamers win.

lazycouchpotato,
@lazycouchpotato@lemmy.world avatar

I got some clarifications from Unity regarding their plan to charge developers per game install (after clearing thresholds)

  • If a player deletes a game and re-installs it, that’s 2 installs, 2 charges
  • Same if they install on 2 devices
  • Charity games/bundles exempted from fees

Regarding this being abused by bad actors:

Unity says it will use fraud detection tools and allow developers to report possible instances of fraud to a compliance team

  • @stephentotilo
nature_man,

That clarification makes it even worse, this is obviously an attempt to push free to play or indie games out the window while making major bank.

The fraud detection will not help at all to prevent abuse especially in cases like steam family sharing where other “users” won’t have to pay to install the game!

There’s literally no reason to charge per game install here, the only possible reason is greed

Hildegarde,

The fraud detection is especially bad because they have a financial incentive to ignore, or under-report installation fraud.

nature_man,

Exactly! I’d put money on a group abusing it, admitting to abusing it, and the game devs still being charged in the near future.

BURN,

So basically they’re explicitly condoning it. That’s not just bad, but even worse that they’re doubling down that a delete+reinstall will charge the dev twice.

This will end a lot of indie projects and they’ve basically destroyed their good standing in indie dev circles.

Da_Boom,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

It’s time to chuck unity in the bin. If not Godot, go for unreal… though I would check their requirements beforehand first.

teruma,

Hard to chuck unity in the bin when you don’t use unity.

We’re lucky there are enough other engines on the market at the moment, but eventually someone will need to spearhead a FOSS engine with blackjack and hookers.

NocturnalMorning,

Godot is a FOSS engine.

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

But does it have the blackjack and hookers? 🤔

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

I’d make my own branch with BJ and hookers, but both GCC and Clang failed to compile :(

NocturnalMorning,

I’m sure somebody somewhere has made both of those games in Godot. Lol

teruma,

Oh, fantastic. Good to know, thanks!

carpelbridgesyndrome,

So once a game stops selling it had better hope its player base dries up and stops reinstalling it? The way that is phrased makes it sound like you could net lose money over the long term if sales decline and people keep reinstalling it

Da_Boom,
@Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

Also, what counts as an install? Ive seen many unity based games that don’t have an installer and just run standalone? Would a standalone game count as already installed? Is it a first run thing in that case? Honestly this, and the additional clarification raises more questions than it answers?

AWittyUsername, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

We chose this because each time a game is downloaded, the Unity Runtime is also installed," the company explained in adding the fee.

Ok and??

grayman,

Every copy costs them money. Don’t you know how digital copies work?!

Touching_Grass,

Guys they’re artists. They deserve to be paid every time you play any game. You wouldn’t steal a car

Natanael,

starts copies of GTA on a thousand computers

derpgon,

Every copy has to be hand made by routing bits around the copper highway ar ludicrous speeds, and rearrange them manually to form what is called “a game”.

sebinspace,

Like… wow, that’s what the engine is! Fucken doinks.

Chickenstalker,

Firstly, how dare you! Secondly, unity is made from a limited resource, which is whale balls. For every download of unity, a whale loses one of its balls. Think of the whales!

2ncs,

So if Microsoft published a Unity developed game on Windows, Microsoft could easily charge a $0.20 free to the unity team for installing the Unity Runtime on their OS.

Not being completely serious there. Honestly thought, did the CEO not realize if they start doing this, what’s to stop another company from doing that to them. Things like mp3, where developers need to pay a license for, could then be charged in a similar fashion for each install.

MargotRobbie, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

You guys should check out Stride if you are looking for another C# based engine. It’s open source, but pretty rough around the edges right now.

Or, go for Godot for something more mature.

NocturnalMorning,

Don’t know that I’d call Godot mature exactly. It’s still missing a lot of major features that both Unity and Unreal have.

ICastFist,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Can you name some? Honest question, I don’t know either Unity or Unreal in depth, I’m just aware that Godot still struggles with performance in the 3D department

NocturnalMorning,

This is a bit old now, but has a good break down of stuff that’s missing for large games. Godot 4 works well for smaller 3D games just fine, it just doesn’t do stuff like level streaming. Also it’s missing a landscape tool. (Though there is a third party one, not sure if it was ported to Godot 4 yet or not)

godotengine.org/…/whats-missing-in-godot-for-aaa/

QuadratureSurfer,
@QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world avatar

What about Open 3D Engine? Basically an updated version of Lumberyard. o3de.org

MargotRobbie,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

I’d imagine Unity user would most likely be looking for a C# based engine instead of a C++ or Python based one, and O3DE doesn’t support C#.

Coreidan, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

More enshitification. This is the kind of stuff I’ve grown to expect from tech companies. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are bleeding money due to interest rates and they need any way possible to stay afloat.

AngryAnusHornets,

deleted_by_author

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  • nothingcorporate,

    That’s the definition of capitalism

    orrk,

    line go up or die

    Angius,

    They haven’t been profitable for, like, past half a decade or so. Each year brings bigger and bigger losses.

    Seeing how the CEO sold 50k shares over the last year, and another 2k not long ago, I can see it being the last hail mary to extract as much money as possible and sell the company to Microsoft/Apple/Facebook/Whoever is willing to buy

    Ozzy, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

    thank God for their inconvenient way of installing and using of the engine itself, if I didn’t have a hard time back then I wouldn’t have switched to Godot 🙏🙏🙏

    50gp,

    firing up godot felt nice, no logins or other bullshit

    NecoArcKbinAccount, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds
    @NecoArcKbinAccount@kbin.social avatar

    Switch to Godot or FTEQW, screw Unity.

    ICastFist,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    FTEQW

    Quake world engine. Huh, wasn’t aware of that one! Speaking of which, you can do all sorts of silly stuff with Doom sourceports, so that’s also a valid alternative.

    TwilightVulpine, do games w Unity adding a fee for devs for each time a game is installed, after certain thresholds

    This might kill entire indie projects.

    9point6,

    There’s other engines, this will kill unity

    TwilightVulpine,

    I know and thank goodness for that... but there will be projects that simply won't be able to afford to move to entirely different engines. It's a lot of work that might have to be redone.

    9point6,

    There’s going to be a lot of money on the table for another engine that can build a unity migration or abstraction tool

    I don’t see that being left on the table for long

    echo64,

    … not really, and for what a few years? Indie devs don’t have a lot of money, and there is a huge discrepancy between unity and other engines. They work in fundamentally different ways.

    9point6,

    There are some pretty big games built in unity, the money on the table is coming from them, (assuming reasonable licensing terms) not the small indie games.

    I may be entirely off the mark, as I don’t work in that part of the industry. But I’ve messed around with unity and it’s not particularly unique compared to any other engine it competes with in my experience, particularly when it comes to actual runtime. Assets will need conversion and sure, the API shim will probably give a performance hit, but there’s no reason I can see that unity is fundamentally different.

    Asifall,

    I’m sure someone will try, but it seems nearly impossible to do this in a way that’s actually useful. Most game engines are going to have fundamental differences that won’t easily map to the unity way of doing things

    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Art assets, sound effects, storylines, that sort of thing transfers pretty easily.

    Rigging, animations, scripting, physics…these pretty much don’t and would have to be rewritten from scratch.

    WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

    I’m in the middle of a project right now that’s going to be released on an out-of-date engine because the newest versions broke backward compatibility and I’m too far along to port everything. If I had to change engines entirely at this point I’d have to cancel the entire project.

    BURN,

    Honest question though, what other small engines have the support and features of unity while also having the permissive licensing they used to have?

    At least when I was looking into engines unreal and unity really stood out as the only useable free engines.

    Defaced,

    There’s unreal, Godot, and a couple others I can’t think of off the top of my head. They’re not as widely used because they lack the feature set of unreal and unity, but they’re out there.

    BURN,

    That’s pretty much what I thought. Unity is so big because it offers a ton of features with a pretty permissive license. There’s not something comparable except unreal, which has an even worse licensing situation

    Aux,

    The thing about Unreal is that you can always negotiate with Epic Games. And if they like your project, they can even invest or provide tech support.

    BURN,

    True, but you also have to deal with Epic, which is a downside for many. It’s a great engine without a doubt, but it does come with its downsides too

    EnglishMobster,

    I dunno if Epic’s licensing is worse. At least it’s a cut of revenue and not charging per install.

    Not to mention that Epic gives sweetheart deals to indies periodically. They make their money from Fortnite, not the engine.

    theterrasque,

    Unity got popular because it was simpler than unreal, and way more feature complete than Godot.

    Was… these days unreal is easier to work with, and Godot is much more capable. So it’s mostly inertia at this point. And now everyone is going to take a real hard look at the alternatives.

    9point6,

    I’m not a game engineer, so someone else who’s actually in that segment of the industry can probably give more answers, but Godot and Bevy seem to be making some waves.

    And if they’re not enough for what a dev needs, given these license changes, I don’t really understand why someone wouldn’t pick unreal or something much more comprehensive over unity now.

    Correct me if I’m off the mark, but unity always seemed like what you’d go for if you wanted something like unreal, but (completely understandably) didn’t want to pay the fees associated with it

    AWittyUsername,

    I only prefer unity for 2 reasons, 1. I have assets that I’ve purchased. 2 I like c#.

    Vittelius,
    1. You can actually import assets from unity into godot using a 3rd party add-on (If the assets license allows is)
    2. Godot has C# scripting
    captain_aggravated,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It depends on the game you’re making.

    Godot has a dedicated workflow for 2D games, so I’d rather make one of those color sorting puzzle games that’s all people play on mobile these days in Godot than Unity or Unreal.

    ahornsirup,
    @ahornsirup@artemis.camp avatar

    It's probably still going to take some projects with it. If you've sunk hundreds or even thousands of manhours into a project you can't just... do it again, or at least not always. Especially not if you've invested money as well as time, which is probably the case for most indie projects that aren't literal one-person shows.

    BURN,

    There’s not really anything other than unreal that has the same capabilities. This isn’t just going to kill unity, it’ll kill a ton of indie developers

    TheRagingGeek,

    I have a friend who has been moderately successful in the game creation space and he is saying he wants to just give up at this point because of this change.

    BURN,

    I can’t even blame him. I would too. This is essentially a situation where the only option is going to be a rewrite from the ground up in a new language and new engine.

    If I was an indie game dev I’d be questioning my future right now too.

    The_v,

    This will kill new development on the engine and older games without who have a limited number of users.

    The ones halfway or more through development to recently launched will have to move to subscriber model or a shit-ton of ads.

    In the next 3-5 years however their profits will likely be up. So some larger company will likely buy them out.

    Touching_Grass,

    I think we need to kill everything so this is a good start. Snake blisken LA

    TwilightVulpine,

    Indies are the ones who deserve to die the least.

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