Happy to see my boy Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura in there.
If you are not averse to 90’s isometric PC RPGs, it is a breathtaking journey through fantasy industrial revolution. Think mages, flintlocks, steram engines, and wonderfully elaborate facial hair. But also, think side-quests so good, they’d be the main attraction in some lesser games. Think evocative world-building scored by entirely by melancholic cellos, violins and violas. Think quests without any other markers than the clues indicated in your journal.
It’s not balanced by any means, you’ll need community patches for it to not die on you the second it launches, combat is good neither in the turn by turn or real time mode, and in the last stretch, the game looses quite a bit of its momentum. It takes quite a game to make all this unimportant in the face of everything else it does perfectly.
For me it was how scary the game got a few levels in. The probe droids with the deserted homes where you get ambushed, oof. Had to have my dad play through those levels while I watched, but he didn’t know where to go so I eventually had to gather the courage to do it myself!
So I have a lot of thoughts on this that I have repeatedly failed to word in a way that I am happy with, so I am going to sideline a lot of those to focus on some more high-level thoughts:
As many have noted, there would probably be significantly better discussion happening if the ideas in the post were framed in a less antagonistic way. While I don’t think the post should be removed, it has been reported multiple times as “obvious rage-bait”, and I have a hard time disagreeing with that view. It is hard to take criticisms of things you like when the tone of that criticism is condescending and antagonistic. This isn’t helped by all the “reasons” given are very subjective and vague, with no concrete examples given to give a reader any context for what you think falls in these categories. In my experience, this type of “conversation” (I hesitate to call it a “conversation” because I think the structure makes having an actual conversation nearly impossible) is really prevalent amongst men who studied STEM and Redditors. Rather than a discussion about preferences in games and strengths/weaknesses of different storytelling styles, it encourages “I’m right, you’re wrong” argumentation, which just won’t be as fruitful and serves mostly to build tension within the community. For me personally, while I do think the ideas in the post make for interesting discussions/conversations, I don’t believe it is possible when this is the initial framing. I hope we can avoid this discussion/argumentation style on beehaw.
As for a more general thoughts on the contents of the post: this feels like it could be condensed down to “I only like a very specific and limited type of storytelling and view anything outside of that as lesser and flawed.” It is also comes off as a very simplistic and “rationalist” analysis of storytelling. It is focused only on tropes and structure and ignores how those tropes might be used to emphasize a theme, or the emotional impact of those stories.
I agree with you fully! Only thing I did not really like is the part about this sort of communication being “really prevalent amongst men who studied STEM and Redditors”. I know you prefaced it with “in my experience”, but it still feels a bit generalizing and not really relevant to the rest of the post. I think the behaviour should be called out, but pinning it on a group always feels a bit “us vs them”. Feel free to reply and discuss further, unlike OP I am looking for connection and mutual understanding :)
#Your favorite game’s “awesome story” robs the player of a basic sense of agency
It is generally not awesome for the player character to join a cult, agree to assassinate their boss’s boss, cheat on their life partner, pick a side in a major power struggle, voluntarily inject themselves with an experimental nano-fluid, etc, without the player’s consent.
Right, so…please tell me a narrative medium that allows this. Somehow movies, books, comics, manga, and literal storytelling all get a pass on this?
I can sort of nod along with everything else, agreeing that there is some truth in the spewing. This statement is so pants-on-head foolish that every other assertion you make gets dragged beneath the water and drowns with chains made of the last page of shitty choose-your-own-adventure book. And for that level of strength in the chains to work, those assertions have to be pretty crappy.
Sorry, but no medium of media allows for agency. I don’t care if you have some of the best writing in a game (whether that means Planescape: Torment, Baldur’s Gate II, Disco Elysium, whatever), or if you want to go with the old choose-your-own-adventure books, but there is ultimately little to no player agency. If you want player agency in a game, you have one choice, and it isn’t a video game: TTRPGs. Even ChatGPT can’t match what a good GM can do, because they can allow you to break the mechanics of the game or add mechanics on the fly to fit what a player wants to do. A GM can literally respond to something a game creator never imagined within seconds. I want to see Planescape or Disco Elysium react to a player doing something they thought of that the game creator didn’t imagine. Buuuulllllshit. Player agency my ass.
Also, as the OP obviously fails to mention any games that he thinks is worthy of being an ‘awesome story’, I’m calling this as a troll/bait post.
Depending on your puzzle solving abilities, Outer Wilds (not Outer Worlds!) should only take around 15-20 hours.
Extra bonus, it can be played in very short sessions very easily and has a great in-game log of events in case you have to put it down for a little while.
I like the term boomer shooter. The reason is the alliteration. But more importantly…
Rookie Level 1 Gamer: “They’re called boomer shooters because they’re old like baby boomers”
Veteran Level 20 Gamer: “Baby boomers thought Doom was satanic, that’s a stupid term”
Enlightened Level 60 Gamer: “They’re called boomer shooters because of the huge debt they owe to the original Doom modding scene and therefore “Boom”, one of the first limit-removing source ports”
GigaChad Level 80 gamer: “Who cares. My ego isn’t so delicate as to have my sensibilities offended by whatever the fuck you want to call it. If you think something like ‘MyHouse.wad’ is something that is for “bOoMeRs” (a.k.a. anyone old enough to know that it’s called a “VCR,” not a “VHS player”) then you’re the one missing out… not me.”
Vampires, The Masquerade: Bloodlines. The whole vibe of the setting, the story, the locations, and then when I finally understood what the plot was really about. Masterpiece of a game, couldnt stop thinking about it.
For me, I enjoyed D4 as a nice campaign. Played through a few times, once with my partner and another solo.
D4 pros: Impeccable game feel, moment to moment combat, graphics and even some nice storytelling. Enjoy the QoL features for alts and the myriad of endgame loops; Helltides are a lot of fun.
D4 cons: Dungeons are boring to me. Builds that feel fun and powerful are limited to 0-2 per class; a big letdown. Weird network / instance lag which stands out among the otherwise polished aesthetic. Middling open world re: exploration to reward ratio.
PoE pros: Deeeeeep. Hardcore. Aspirational? Still haven’t cleared the campaign despite getting closer each league. Lots of builds and skill variety.
PoE cons: Feels like the oldest baguette ever to exist. Wildly stiff gameplay. Ugh its such shit compared to D4. Like DMC vs Skyrim level of difference. Disparate, cheap feeling UI and tacked on storytelling. Exudes HardXCore__Statzz.xls energy and feels practically impossible to navigate a viable build without a guide.
In the end I think Grim Dawn outplays both D4 and PoE. Check it out if you love ARPGs
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