conciselyverbose,

If real people hate your game because of the changes you made from the last one (that you took away from them), that's not a review bomb.

It's just a review.

CraigeryTheKid,

the game/steam release definitely deserved bad reviews - but it’d be hard to deny that it wasn’t also a bombing run.

conciselyverbose,

A review bomb is when people start jumping down the game's throat with negative reviews for shit unrelated/peripheral to the game. If they're triggered by the actual core design choices of the game it isn't a review bomb.

These reviews are because the game is a money grubbing downgrade from the game people bought and had taken away from them, and this is the first opportunity they had to publish a review on a storefront. The motivation being the actual game means it can't be a review bomb.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

If they're still playing the game anyway, I might call that a review bomb.

hook,

No, it's still a review because you're still actively dealing with whatever it is you're complaining about.

"Hey, I really like/liked the core game play loop of this game but I think that it's gotten significantly worse than it was previously. It'd be nice if they changed it back?

4/10."

520,

Plenty of people leave negative reviews for games they otherwise play. Especially where big changes are put into effect

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

That's the exact recipe for ensuring that they don't change it back.

520,

That's depends on the business model. For one-off payment games, it still does considerable damage, whereas they don't gain much by you continuing to play.

For subscription games, your point stands much stronger.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

It's a free to play multiplayer game. If you continue playing it, you're providing value for some other player who might spend money, so just by being in the matchmaking pool, they've got you where they want you, and they won't care about your review.

NotTheOnlyGamer,
@NotTheOnlyGamer@kbin.social avatar

Exactly. People need to vote with their wallets and PCs.

cre0,

So overwatch 2 is objectively terrible, but putting that aside for a moment…

Can you seriously not envision a scenario where you personally do a thing (maybe even enjoy that thing), but still wouldn’t recommend it to others?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Can you seriously envision a scenario where the worst game of all time is among the most-played?

cre0,

Ah okay I see you’re the kind of kid who answers a question with a question. 🤦‍♂️

Enjoy picking petty fights over… who likes which video game better. Not really my dig kiddo

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

Yes, I answered your question with a question because your scenario was as absurd as you perceived mine to be. So I'll answer yours directly: "yes, but not at that scale". Because at that scale, it's a review bomb.

cre0,

K

crossmr,

So if General motors was using slave labour to build their cars and feeding said labour with baby kittens, would you consider it a review bomb for someone to say 'You shouldn't buy the latest vehicle from General motors because of the way it is made'?

What if general motors came out and said that they think a great start to the day is to wake up and punch a dutchman in the face?

A review is, ultimately, a recommendation of whether or not you think other people should buy this product. If you can't recommend it because of something the company who made it did, to me, it's still a review. Because recommending that product is recommending financial support of that company. Not recommending it, is not supporting them.

For me a real review bomb would occur generally only in a case where a site like 4chan might suddenly spin a wheel of mayhem and pick a random game to just go shit on or something like that.

conciselyverbose,

By definition, yes, that's a review bomb. It has no connection in any way to the quality of the product, which is what a review is.

Primarily0617,

You're entirely disconnected to reality if you think Overwatch 2 deserves to be the worst-reviewed game on Steam.

conciselyverbose,

Based on what?

The negatives are extremely bad, and people are legitimately reviewing the game negatively because they legitimately think it's a pile of shit.

It is literally unconditionally impossible for it to be a review bomb if the reviews are motivated by the core design decisions of the game.

Primarily0617,

Today's concurrent player peak is ~47k.

Why would 47k people choose to play the game when it's the worst game on Steam? Literally worse than a game like Bad Rats: the Rats' Revenge that fundamentally doesn't function correctly. For reference, its peak today was about 20 players.

Before you reply with something like "marketing", you seriously think that if Bad Rats launched today, and with the same marketing budget as OW2, that it would achieve anywhere close to 47k players peak 10 months after its release?

Like I said: you're disconnected from reality if you think OW2 is the worst game on Steam.

conciselyverbose,

Did bad rats deliberately steal a game people liked to replace it with an addiction machine?

Primarily0617,

deliberately steal a game people liked to replace it with an addiction machine

what the actual fuck are you talking about

conciselyverbose,

The reason Overwatch 2 is the worst reviewed game Steam has ever had?

A bad game does a lot less harm than a game that seems good on the surface then tries to rob you blind.

Primarily0617,

by "tries to rob you blind" you mean a game with entirely optional additional purchases?

wow you're right they really get you with that "you can pay if you want" model

it's practically criminal definitely worthy of being the worst ranked game on steam

conciselyverbose,

There is no such thing as a microtransaction that is not pure unredeemable evil.

Primarily0617,

then please explain why Counter Strike Global Offensive, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, etc. don't deserve to have the same rating

conciselyverbose,

As far as I'm concerned they do. But my opinion doesn't decide the rating of a game any more than yours that's it's supposedly a better game than bad rats.

It's a product of everyone who votes giving their opinion, and the entire steam userbase has come to the consensus that Overwatch 2 is a particularly egregious example of it.

It cannot possibly be a review bomb when the reviews are legitimate opinions based on what the game is.

Primarily0617,

supposedly a better game than bad rats

the previously referenced games all sit above 80% positive and yet have the exact same problems that you cite as OW2's reason for being bad

legitimate opinions

"the zeitgeist has told them that the game is bad" is not a legitimate reason for not liking OW2, hence accusations of review bombing

if you think there are legitimate reasons OW2 deserves the rating it has, by all means please provide them, but so far all you've given me are that also apply to basically all the popular F2P games on Steam.

cre0,

Because it’s a F2P game that is monetized as such and exists only to make the game I bought obsolete.

I bought a game.

The game I have now is not the game I bought.

Primarily0617,

correct: it's a different game

reviewing it because it's not Overwatch 1 is by definition review bombing

cre0,

it’s the game they gave me to replace the game i purchased.

if i bought a toyota camry, and 2 years later toyota said “sorry we can’t let you continue using your camry, here’s a corolla” you better fucking believe i’d be trashing toyota in every public space possible to warn potential customers.

Primarily0617,

"i wanted a camry not a corolla" is not a valid review of a corolla

cre0,

It absolutely is if I bought a Camry and got a Corolla.

Enjoy life in prescriptive hell my guy 🙄

Primarily0617,

in your analogy you bought a camry and mr toyota said "we're getting rid of this camry but don't worry i fought to get you a free corolla" and were fine with it and hailed mr toyota as a hero but then mr toyota left the company so the free corolla became poisonous and bad

cre0,

What?

520,

Those games are not nearly as aggressive in their attempts to get you to buy shit. CSGO? a tiny ass fucking button to buy Prime. TF2? Don't even remember seeing a shop button.

OW2? Makes the worst, money hungry mobile free-to-play blush with how aggressive it tries to sell you shit.

And they killed OW1, just for this.

Primarily0617,

tf2 drops crates every 30 minutes that's literally just an advert for the in-game store (which has a dedicated button pretty clearly labelled on the main menu)

pretty sure CSGO does the same

520,

CSGO does not do the same. I play that one regularly.

Primarily0617,

you're saying CSGO doesn't drop crates?

520,

If it does, I've literally never seen it, and I play regularly. The closest I ever got was the Halo MCC soundtrack in CSGO, and I'm pretty sure I only got that because I also have MCC on Steam.

Primarily0617,

my guy csgo crates were controversial enough a few years ago that people sued valve over them, and at no point did csgo come anywhere close to being the worst reviewed game on steam

how are you unironically out here saying that csgo doesn't drop crates?

520,

The original Overwatch, which had none of this shit and was a one-off payment, was killed off in favour of OW2

Primarily0617,

leaving a negative review because of that would by definition be review bombing, because at that point you're not reviewing the game, but external context that surrounds it

520, (edited )

Not really. Reviewing the game as OW with enshittification is a perfectly reasonable review of OW2 in and of itself.

Especially if the publishers made the one-off purchase version unusable just to push people onto the enshittified one.

Primarily0617,

"i liked overwatch 1" is not a valid review of the game overwatch 2, and people leaving reviews to that effect en-masse is pretty textbook review bombing

520,

Yes it is. It's perfectly valid.

It says that the changes in Overwatch 2 are unpopular with the reviewer.

If the changes were positive or even unnoteworthy, that review wouldn't be there

Primarily0617,

if you're reviewing specific things you don't like, that's reviewing a product

leaving a negative review because "OW1 was killed off" isn't doing that

if you want to discuss specific things you don't like, please provide some that would reasonably justify OW2 being literally the worst reviewed game on steam rn

520, (edited )

leaving a negative review because "OW1 was killed off" isn't doing that

Leaving a review because "OW1 was killed off" and the intended transition route was a drastically inferior product, is in fact reviewing a product.

Context is actually an important part of reviews. Orcarina or Time looks like a shit game today, and needs the context of being a late 90's innovator to fully appreciate it. Likewise, a BoTW clone would look fantastic, a game changer, even...if a certain 2017 game hadn't already set the benchmark.

Calling something an inferior version of its predecessor, which was cynically shut down to push people to this inferior product, is worthy review information. It tells people that a superior product existed, and all this new product is, is the enshittification of it.

Primarily0617,

you're reviewing a different product

ow1 was shut down to avoid splitting the playerbase. when kaplan went on record saying that he'd fought to get ow1 owners a copy of ow2 for free everybody loved it, but now it's bad, actually? yes that makes sense

Orcarina or Time looks like a shit game today

comparing the entire landscape of gaming to a game is a very different thing to comparing it to a specific game

it would be like if somebody reviewed Baldur's Gate 3 by saying it was bad just because they liked the source powers from Divinity 2. as part of a review maybe it works, sure but as the bedrock and sole item of substance, it's useless.

your entire argument so far has been "I preferred the previous game therefore OW2 deserves to be the worst reviewed game on steam". even ignoring the fact that you've failed to articulate any differences past a vague notion of not liking that it's free-to-play, that's an almost laughably braindead take

520,

you're reviewing a different product

And making comparisons between the two products is perfectly valid.

ow1 was shut down to avoid splitting the playerbase.

I'm sorry, are you an Activision/Blizzard employee?

I ask because only one of their employees could come up with such a bullshit statement. The core gameplay loops aren't different enough to cause that kind of split, and OW2 Is free-to-play. Anybody that wanted to voluntarily jump from OW1 to OW2 could have freely done so at literally no cost, if they so wanted.

They shut down OW1 to a) pump up the numbers for OW2 and b) to get OW1 players forcibly exposed to their F2P market.

when kaplan went on record saying that he'd fought to get ow1 owners a copy of ow2 for free everybody loved it, but now it's bad, actually? yes that makes sense

Definitely an Activision/Blizzard employee. Nobody else would miss the disingenuity of making such a statement about a free-to-play game.

comparing the entire landscape of gaming to a game is a very different thing to comparing it to a specific game

And my point is, taking into account the landscape, even in a macro level such as Activision's own behaviour with the series, including this very game, is relevant context worthy of being part of a review.

it would be like if somebody reviewed Baldur's Gate 3 by saying it was bad just because they liked the source powers from Divinity 2. as part of a review maybe it works, sure but as the bedrock and sole item of substance, it's useless.

Your analogy falls flat because Divinity and BG, though they share much of the same inspirations and development staff, are very different games. OW2 is basically OW1 with some minor tweaks and microtransactions.

The problem with OW2's mtx though is that the game makes it as hard as possible to ignore its microtransaction nature as possible, and they willingly hamper the user experience to do so.

Other than the MTX, OW2 is so similar to OW1, that without it, these reviews would be saying that they're essentially the same game. So what they're saying now, that it's OW1 enshittified, is valid.

your entire argument so far has been "I preferred the previous game therefore OW2 deserves to be the worst reviewed game on steam".

If that's what you took away from my comments, then I'm afraid you cannot read. That, or you're unable to discern from different users. All I've said was that people calling OW2 basically enshittified OW1 is not review bombing, because it's a valid review.

even ignoring the fact that you've failed to articulate any differences past a vague notion of not liking that it's free-to-play

Because there are very few differences and none of them are improvements. Like the shrinking of team sizes and available modes.

Also, F2P can be predatory as fuck, and Activision/Blizzard have most certainly been so here. they've even broken sales laws in countries like Australia.

Primarily0617,
  • The core gameplay loops aren't different enough
  • OW2 is basically OW1 with some minor tweaks
  • OW2 is so similar to OW1, that without it, these reviews would be saying that they're essentially the same game
  • All I've said was that people calling OW2 basically enshittified OW1 is not review bombing, because it's a valid review.
  • Because there are very few differences

Okay so you clearly agree that OW2 doesn't deserve to be the lowest rated game on steam, since "there are very few differences", and you liked OW1.

I don't really care what semantic nonsense or mental gymnastics you have to apply to convince yourself that whatever caused it to be ranked so low doesn't count as review bombing.

520, (edited )

Okay so you clearly agree that OW2 doesn't deserve to be the lowest rated game on steam, since "there are very few differences", and you liked OW1.

I do agree it doesn't deserve to be seen as literally the worst game on Steam. I never said otherwise. I hate, hate, HATE the MTX system...but as you said, this doesn't make it literally the worst game ever. MTX aside the game still works and the core gameplay loop is fun while you're in a match. Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing this is not.

Would I hit the Recommend button on Steam? No. The MTX strategy is a deal breaker for me. Whenever I'm not in a match I feel like a fucking product. At that point I'd rather just fire up another shooter because I straight up don't want to deal with that shit.

OW2 isn't a bad game. It is a predatory game. It is debatable which is worse (I consider predatory to be much worse than bad). Being predatory is plenty reason enough for a bad review.

TwilightVulpine,

You are really trying to downplay the power of marketing, but you seem to realize that gets people playing. Not only that but live service design is very effective at keeping people playing even when they are not having any fun whatsoever. Because they gotta grind the battle pass and such. Extrinsic rewards and habit-forming conditioning making up for a lack of intrinsic enjoyment.

Still, I would agree with you that it's not the worst game on Steam, but like I mentioned in the other comment, that's not what steam ratings mean. It means that the vast majority people would not recommend it, and that seems pretty reasonable.

Primarily0617,

bf2042 had a playercount in the high 1000s 2 months after its launch

ow2 released 10 months ago

are you saying bf2042 didn't have marketing?

which is more likely:

  • 50k people have been brainwashed into playing the game every day, and similar numbers into watching it on twitch
  • there is review bombing
TwilightVulpine,

Doesn't look like you even read my full comment so I'm gonna wait till you do.

Primarily0617,

i mean i ignored the second part because it was irrelevant

"You're entirely disconnected to reality if you think Overwatch 2 deserves to be the worst-reviewed game on Steam." doesn't say "deserves to be the worst game", so if we're playing the reading game maybe you should take the first turn

TwilightVulpine,

Oh, so you have no response to it so you are gonna pretend it doesn't matter. I see.

I could say I'd do the same but nothing you are saying now even addresses what I already responded to you, so I'll just call it a job done.

Primarily0617,

yes good job you failed to read my comment again 👏👏

TwilightVulpine,

On Steam being reviewed poorly is not a matter of rating from 1 to 10, but how many people would recommend it or not. It's completely valid that the vast majority of people would not recommend this game even if it's not a 0/10.

Primarily0617,

yes obviously, and none of that changes anything about the fact that very clearly OW2 isn't bad enough to deserve the title of worst rated game on steam

TwilightVulpine,

You tried to argue with someone else over this, but the fact that more people played it, being F2P, means that more people can agree that they wouldn't recommend it. Given how Steam ratings work, that makes it the worst rated. There's no arguing how it is. You seem to take an issue with it as if it meant Gabe Newell personally stamped it with a 0/10, which is not how it works.

In Steam, being 4/10 for thousands of people is worse than being 0/10 for a couple people.

shiveyarbles,

That’s not a review bomb, you guys aren’t victims. That’s gamers telling you to fuck off with lies, under delivering, treating your employees like shit, micro transactions and battle passes

MrSpArkle,

Yeah, this is why Jeff Kaplan left. My boy wasn’t gonna fall on this sword.

Syo,
@Syo@kbin.social avatar

If you're the game director and had so little sway to the producers /publishers, then you're nothing but a "yes man" figure head. Maybe go back to dev, the executive role isn't for you.

Otherwise, the only excuse is you initiated all these changes and you are completely out of touch with your customers.

kingthrillgore,
@kingthrillgore@kbin.social avatar

Not having a PVP experience when you marketed it extensively kinda sucks.

Zellith,

Review bombs generally dont last the entire release of a game. Perhaps you just made a shit game.

Homeschooled316,

deleted_by_author

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  • conciselyverbose,

    You understand that the game isn't new, just new to Steam, right? Having zero hours on Steam doesn't mean anything when they forced all the people who genuinely wanted to play it to figure out that it was dogshit on their own launcher first.

    wolfshadowheart,
    @wolfshadowheart@kbin.social avatar

    Reposting from another thread:

    Review bombing is when a game gets poorly rated for something, mostly completely unrelated to the game, but due to something surrounding it - be that a publisher decision like deciding to ban and not give Blitzchung his prize money for saying support Hong Kong, or some perceived language/political/regional slights like with Nier Automata. Tons of examples out here in this category, where legitimately good games are being affected by somewhat legitimate but not relevant reasons.

    Overwatch 2 being poorly rated on Steam isn't review bombing. It's gamers saying how shit the game is, like the false promises for Cyberpunk 2077, the addition of denuovo to games, or horrendously egregious microtransactions added to games, like with horse armor or the entirety of everything thst happened leading up to Star Wars Battlefront II (the second). These may be legitimately good games severely affected by terrible decisions from the developers, publishers, or marketing team. Being poorly rated for having egregious microtransactions isn't being review bombed, it's highlighting a serious problem in the games design.

    I understand why the latter is so easily mixed up with the former, but it's something that happens as users and media outlets erode the meaning of these words. It's disingenuous to say that something is review-bombed when it's poorly rated for legitimate reasons but as you said it's something that is now interpreted that way.

    There's also something to be said about Valve's internal metric for review bombing which is the increased number of reviews leaning in a particular direction due to some external force. For example, Assassins Creed Unity being given for free led to positive reviews but was excluded from being counted as a review bombing, compared to something negative like being completely unable to leave reviews at all on the Epic Games store, leading players to leave reviews on Steam.

    In regards to the reviewson Steam, given that the game has been out but just released on this platform, it's still not review bombing. Are there joke reviews? Always in basically every game since before steam points awards. That doesn't mean they were being review bombed, that's just any other joke reviews.

    Tl;Dr is overwatch 2 being poorly rated for something that doesn't have anything to do with the game? Did Blizzard not give prize winnings out? Did the developer make a racy tweet 10 years ago? Are non-localised players upset about something not culturally localized?

    No? It's being poorly reviewed due to changes, removals, minimal upgrades, and increased microtransactions?

    Poorly reviewed for bad decisions. Not review bombed.

    HuddaBudda,
    @HuddaBudda@kbin.social avatar

    "Aaron Keller gets that (people are upset). "That announcement was about an ambitious project that we ultimately couldn't deliver."

    On one end, he could be lying, after all it's not like they didn't have working prototypes and cinematic for the new game mode that wasn't deliverable

    Or.

    He is telling the truth. Then making people return to the office impacted blizzard's bottom line more then they thought and was a stupid decision that they should end ASAP.

    Kill_joy,
    @Kill_joy@kbin.social avatar

    Make stupid games win stupid prizes

    jon,
    @jon@kbin.social avatar

    Evidently playing the game isn't a fun experience either, Aaron.

    snooggums,
    @snooggums@kbin.social avatar

    Playing the matches is fun, since it is just Overwatch. Literally the same gameplay as Overwatch, but with 5 per team instead of 6.

    In between is an assault of micro transaction manipulation bullshit that ruins the experience. PvE is hidden behind a paywall, except for the free stuff that is a retread of the seasonal PvE from Overwatch. I know this because I gave it some hours to see if it was as bad as people were saying.

    People hate it because it was supposed to be an improvement but instead it was just another attempt to bleed the players dry. It might be the only game I have reviewed negatively on steam because the monetization really is that bad that it ruins the whole game.

    unexposedhazard,

    Ah yes “review bombing” also known as getting shit on for delivering shit when u promised gold…

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