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PunchingWood, do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”

What he really meant to say was that he shilled out for the bags of money

Kolanaki, do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”
!deleted6508 avatar

Imagine if Steam and EGS were hotdog vendors.

Steam offers all the condiments; mustard, ketchup, mayo, relish, onions, pickles, tomatoes, bacon, cheese, chili, etc.

EGS is just a plain hotdog. No condiments. You’re lucky to even get a bun.

Both are equal price.

Which hotdog are you getting?

Now imagine that the plain hotdog guy keeps whining that nobody wants his hotdogs.

Corvid,

The hotdog vendor keeps going on about how he’s the good guy because he pays more to the sausage suppliers. As if that’s at all relevant to his customers.

altima_neo,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

He also tried suing the fruit vendor because they wouldn’t let them sell their hotdogs on their Apple cart.

BleatingZombie,

I’m having a really hard time keeping up with the analogies at this point, haha

Contingencyfork,

I’m just waiting for the fast food to join at this point because I’m Loving it

Jessica,

To be fair, with regular groceries, it’s not uncommon for consumers to be concerned about whether or not the person who manufactured or processed the good or food you are buying was paid a fair wage. So in that sense, it is kind of relevant to the hotdog vendors customers.

I’m only playing devils advocate though. Fuck epic lol

altima_neo,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Epic games store occasionally gives you a free hotdog every week. But it also contains no fixings, and you gotta eat it at the counter.

Jerkface,

I eat that free hotdog every week, then go across the street and buy another one.

woelkchen,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

I eat that free hotdog every week, then go across the street and buy another one.

You actually eat it? I put it in the fridge for bad times but only eat the ones from the other side.

ahal,

To be fair, I also put most of the hot dogs I buy across the street in the fridge too.

ouRKaoS,

I have a bunch of coupons for hotdogs that I got years ago, because the were like $1 for 20 hotdogs.

AlphaOmega,

I have a 100 plus free hotdogs

whenyellowstonehasitsday,

yesssssssss, but the second hot-dog vendor wants to offer customers lower prices, and the first says they can't because otherwise those hot dogs will be banned from their stand, and the second responds by attempting to throw piss water-balloons at any passers by, or something

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

the second hot-dog vendor wants to offer customers lower prices, and the first says they can’t because otherwise those hot dogs will be banned from their stand

It’s more accurate to say that the plain hotdog vendor wants to sell the other vendor’s hotdogs at a lower price at his own stand, thereby undercutting the sales of the first vendor for their own hotdogs.

whenyellowstonehasitsday,

not really, unless you're implying the fancy hotdog vendor paid for the development of said hotdogs, which they didn't

games don't belong to valve

Kolanaki,
!deleted6508 avatar

The keys that put the game in your Steam library are. And that’s what those pricing guidelines are about; Steam keys, not the actual game.

whenyellowstonehasitsday,

you'd hope, wouldn't you?

But when I asked Valve about this plan, they replied that they would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM.

Nibodhika,

Nope, you are wrong, this is a common mistake that Epic keeps spreading as missinformation. Valve does NOT enforce price parity on other platforms, there are games that are sold cheaper on other stores, this is up to the publisher to decide, but most publishers find it easier to have the same price across the board. If this was true games that are exclusive on Epic would be cheaper until they come to Steam years later, but they aren’t.

The mistake happens because there is one specific case in which Valve enforces price parity, but for this you need to know three things:

  • Valve gives away for free infinite steam keys to publishers
  • Those keys can be sold by the publisher elsewhere
  • If they do that the publisher keeps 100% of the revenue of that sale

That sale of that free steam key for which Valve is not charging anything is regulated and can’t be sold cheaper than Steam on regular basis, it can be in a sale for cheaper, but the regular price must match Steam and if it goes on sale outside of Steam eventually it needs to do a similar sale on Steam (but not necessarily at the same time).

So one thing that’s amazing that Valve does for people who publish their games with them is getting them hate because of Epic, please stop spreading missinformation.

whenyellowstonehasitsday,

Nope, you are wrong

But when I asked Valve about this plan, they replied that they would remove Overgrowth from Steam if I allowed it to be sold at a lower price anywhere, even from my own website without Steam keys and without Steam’s DRM.

Nibodhika,

In that link you have one person making a claim without any backing or evidence. Even if that did happen there are multiple possible explanations:

  • The email was not clear about the other stores not selling keys
  • The person who answered the email did not understand that they weren’t talking about steam keys
  • The person answering the email doesn’t know what they’re talking about
  • Etc

And in that same link you have multiple persons in the comments describing the exact opposite experience providing the same amount of evidence, so if the text on that link is evidence that Valve does that, then the comments there are even more evidence that they don’t.

If only there was a way of knowing… Well, they did say they opened a lawsuit, and those are public record so the email would be there since it’s crucial to the case, without it they would have no case, right? Feel free to read the entire complaint here and you’ll notice the email is suspiciously missing, their claims are that Valve wouldn’t give them more keys to resell, which is directly opposite to what the blog claims.

I can do you one better, Overgrowth is a sequel to Lugaru, which is paid on Steam but free if you install via your package manager on Linux, therefore completely disproving the fact that Steam enforces price parity even for games from this company

whenyellowstonehasitsday,

you say valve isn't doing something, i provide an example where they are, and your defense is that they're just a big stinky liar?

cool, nice chat

Nibodhika,
  • You provide a link to someone saying “Valve said they would do X” without evidence, I point out that in that same link you have multiple people saying “Valve told me they would not do X” with the same amount of evidence.
  • I additionally show you the lawsuit the blog talks about where at no point the supposed email is shown
  • Additionally I show you another game from the same company that has lower price outside of Steam

I don’t know how much more evidence do you need.

unautrenom,

Um, I’ve read the complaint from top to bottom and it claims way more than just ‘Valve wouldn’t give them keys to resell’ if they’re not at the same price as on steam. It also claims Valve puts a ‘Price Veto’ clause which allows them to delist games from Steam if the publisher gives bigger sales on other platforms, even if they do not using steam keys, which does sound super uncompetitive to me.

Although I’ll agree the evidence listed in the complaint seem a bit on the light side. Do you know if the trial happened yet? And if so, do you know where I can find what resolution they reached?

Nibodhika,

Yeah, it does, but the only claim for which they present any evidence is the keys thing, showing a couple of screenshots.

I haven’t read it all, but it seems that here is a ruling for most of the stuff.

unautrenom,

Thank you for the link! It helped putting things into proper nuance and context (indcluding throwing away that ridiculous notion that the ‘Steam Store’ and the ‘Steam Gaming Platform’ are two completly different things in different markets).

However, reading the whole thing, it sounds to me like while the court dismissed some of the claims (1 to 4 and 7 apparently), they agreed that Wolfire and the other plaitiffs had the right to ‘plausibly allege unlawful conduct’ about the ‘Most-favored-nations restraints’ (the part where Steam forces publishers to set prices on all stores without steam keys being involved) without mentioning anything more on the subject.

I’m not americain so I’m not sure if I understand correctly, but that means the ruling isn’t over and it’ll go into an appeal court, right?

Nibodhika,

I’m also not American (well, technically I’m, but you meant from the USA not from the American continent) but yeah, I think it’s still ongoing, although I remember hearing a while back that Valve settled some case, not sure if this one (notice that settling doesn’t mean admitting guilt or that they were going to lose, but sometimes it’s just cheaper to settle than to keep defending yourself (the problem is that on the long run this sends a message that you’re a good target).

Also I believe they would have won the claim that they don’t enforce price parity just by pointing at the other game from Wolfire (Lugaru) which is paid on Steam and free outside of it, and Valve never did anything about it.

HiddenLychee,

I think I lost this analogy. What are the condiments in this metaphor?

Scafir,

I don’t know so much about EGS, but probably some of the following (most of which I don’t use very often, I hope I recall correctly)

  • Refunds
  • Family sharing of games
  • Sharing games for other local users
  • Being able to lend games
  • Remote Play (with friends)
  • Remote Play (stream for a local machine)
  • Linux support through proton
  • probably more?
PlzGivHugs,
  • Workshop, providing mod hosting/browser/framework for API
  • controller configuration tools
  • Better storefront with decent discovery and better search (Although this wouldn’t be a condiment in the anology)
  • Passable social tools (IE voice chat)
  • Game streaming to friends
  • Cloud saves
  • Relatively good review system
  • Item marketplace and trading
jjjalljs,

Free cloud backups of save files is really nice.

Free hosting of screenshots, too.

Free forums (though they tend to suck. I guess that’s like they only have basic yellow mustard or something, in this metaphor)

dual_sport_dork,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

That, and Gabe’s hotdog stand has spent decades building customer trust by generally acting decently towards its customers, right after it invented the concept of the hotdog stand.

Making the core of your business model revolve around whining about your competitors doesn’t work so great when your main competitor is already significantly better than you are.

PlexSheep,

Not to mention the gabe stand made the hot dogs at all accessible for some nerds. Hotdogs were really hard to eat for the penguins.

goferking0,

Sometimes the epic hot dog isn’t fully cooked, or has everything on it because they grabbed it out of steams hands then gave it to their customer

L0rdMathias, do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”

do nothing

Win

The gaben method works again

Sanctus, do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

EGS is worse than Steam was 10 years ago. Its only useful for piling free games from the store that I’ll never play.

XeroxCool,

Oh yeah, I don’t have time to play my main Elite:Dangerous profile anymore but I’ll totally have time to use my free Epic license to plaster my name across the galaxy on deep space exploration.

Jerkface,

Why can’t you just draw dicks like a normal person?

XeroxCool,

Not sure if joking… But someone did take advantage of the 3rdgparty heat map and spent a couple dozen hours of game time drawing this dick in the galaxy

reddit.com/…/someone_mapped_out_a_giant_dick/

doodledup, (edited ) do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”

I gave Epic’s store a chance but even after all this time it’s still shit and very far from feature parity with Steam. There’s not even proper reviews. No big-picture equivalent. No good out-of-the-box Linux support. No Steam-Deck. The list is very very long. Until Epic starts delivering, the 30% cut Valve takes is more than justified.

Albbi,

I gave it a chance when they took over Rocket League. The damn platform doesn’t even support profile avatars while Steam did. So to get a basic nice feature working all you had to do was… not use their platform.

They still don’t have avatars.

TachyonTele,

They absolutely slaughtered rocket league. They even put the dumb cyber truck in it lmao

Albbi,

Oh really? I haven’t played since they disabled trading items.

I mean, the cyber truck probably looks better than some of the other cars, and you’ll probably get better FPS due to the lowered polygon count! But yeah… no bueno.

Laser,

the cyber truck probably looks better than some of the other cars

It’s actually quite close to the real version.

So no.

Albbi,

I haven’t seen it, but I thought it might be better than the Grog or Scarab.

Laser,

it might be better than the […] Scarab

Surely you jest

Albbi,

I went and played a few games. You’re right, the cybertruck is the worst looking car in the game by far.

jagermo,

Heroic launcher works pretty well to get epic and gog games in the deck. But yes, support could be better, especially since i remember unreal tournament being Linux friendly early on.

thejoker954,

Yeah i get and play the free games from there, but they don’t seem to want to do more than the bare minimum for the storefront so I won’t purchase anything through them.

doodledup,

It’s beyond me how they can affors all of these free games and exclusive but not a single capable developer to make this platform beyond just the bare minimum.

BedbugCutlefish,
@BedbugCutlefish@lemmy.world avatar

I never gave it a chance, as theit practice of paying for exclusivity is infuriating to me.

Make your shit better. Hell, make it comparable, and charge a lower cit (so devs make more), and I’d support then.

Paying to make the market more closed off sucks.

toynbee,

FWIW, my understanding is that the owner of Epic is actively anti-Linux, so your third feature is a unlikely at best. The fourth was only remotely likely due to market share.

ampersandrew, do games w Gearbox founder says Epic Games Store hopes were “misplaced or overly optimistic”
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

It’s an open question whether Epic’s limited success is a result of the company’s failure to “press its advantage,” as Pitchford opines, or just a sign that Steam’s massive entrenched network effects have proven more resilient than he expected.

It’s not. EGS doesn’t solve any problems that Steam leaves on the table to be solved. Customers have no reason to shop at EGS when Epic takes its thumb off the scale.

conciselyverbose,

It doesn’t solve most of the problems Steam already solved either.

Graphy,

Not only that but it’s a worse user experience all around.

I fucking hate the EGS and Xbox stores for browsing new games. Most of the time you’ll get an animated video that’s not game footage and two screenshots that don’t tell you shit.

Not to mention that the formatting is so bad that the client requires you to basically be in fullscreen but you’ve still gotta scroll a mile down to get any info.

halcyoncmdr,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

Not to mention that the formatting is so bad that the client requires you to basically be in fullscreen but you’ve still gotta scroll a mile down to get any info.

For Xbox, that’s because the PC app is literally copy/pasted from the Xbox console app. Hell, it probably is the same universal app since that was a big Microsoft push to have more apps available on the consoles and Windows Phone.

XeroxCool,

Lol I thought it was just my advanced age of 33 that made it difficult to understand a game from the Xbox previews. A majority of screenshots look like garbage once you’re not in character and the store highlights that.

Katana314,

The funny thing is, I feel like it’s not so hard to navigate Steam for particular problems that consumers would like a solution to, but Valve has been ignoring or considers beyond them. For some people, those individual problems form the root of their buying decision. You’d have to beat them at something before you beat them at everything.

altima_neo,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Even ea’s origin tried to offer more, with the overlay chat, etc. Epic did none of that.

Steam also offers community pages, user reviews, and other features that allows players to discuss their games.

AceFuzzLord,

If anything, the only thing that other stores have that Steam doesn’t would be games not on Steam. Even then, half of the time, they’re either itch(dot)io exclusive indie titles or shitty triple AAA titles.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

When I buy on GOG, I know I’m getting a game DRM-free. They muddied that a tad with how they handle online multiplayer, but for the most part, I get more value from their store for that. It’s a huge reason why I’d choose their store, because they’re solving a problem for me that Steam does not.

Glide,

While I normally check both locations and buy from GOG if it’s available there, you would be surprised how many Steam titles are completely DRM free.

I needed some DRM free games for the classroom last year and was pleasantly surprised that a lot of the smaller, indie games I own Steam, the ones I was most interested in bringing into the classroom to begin with, run perfectly well on a machine without Steam even installed just by copying the folder to a flash drive. Some required deleting a Steam.dll or adding a text document that states the SteamID of the game, but most of the games I wanted I was able to run from a flash drive, DRM free, no Internet, Steam or game install required.

Steam offers DRM to devs that want it, but it is not a DRM platform in of itself.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

I’m aware, but when GOG takes the ambiguity out of it, I don’t have to do tons of extra research to know that they have an extra feature that’s important to me. I’d really appreciate if some store took the ambiguity out of it when it comes to multiplayer games being playable offline. It’s something that Steam should easily tell you in theory, but there are tons of games that have LAN and such without bothering to report it. Some say they require an online connection and actually don’t. These are problems worth solving for me, a particular kind of consumer.

EveningNewbs,

If only they supported Linux. Proton support out of the box is the biggest selling point for me.

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

I’m with you, but they’ve got a very generous 30 day refund policy, no matter how many hours played, if it doesn’t work. So far, I’ve only had to use it once, on Phantom Fury, which is Verified on Steam but had issues in the tutorial through GOG; some day I’ll pick up the Steam version and see if it does any better. I also buy my GOG games through Heroic launcher, which has a referral link so that some of the revenue of my sale goes toward the development of Heroic. That way GOG knows that if they want all of the revenue from my sale, it’s clear what they have to do to earn it.

And as a reminder, there are Linux native games on GOG. I just played Duck Detective: The Secret Salami on the native Linux version from GOG.

otter, do games w The Crimson Diamond is a wonderful EGA-like graphic adventure game for 2024

This looks like so much fun! 🤩🤘🏽

Alexstarfire, do gaming w Saudi man earns world record for 444 game consoles hooked to one TV

I would like to see them all turned on at once so I can see the circuit breaker explode.

A bit more serious though, why have them all hooked up to one TV at once? There’s no way all that works right automatically. There’s gonna be some manual invervention to get the console showing on the TV.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks,

That way you get a world record.

M500,

If it’s all analog, maybe he has some crazy connection setup. HDMI could be done by hdmi splitters that can detect when a signal is being received.

I think it would be possible with a ton of work and trial and error.

M500,

I just watched the video and he does have like this really complex video splitter I guess and he show this like giant spreadsheet he has so when he wants to play PlayStation one he looks on the spreadsheet and knows which switch settings to use and then his power he did show some of them and it looks like someone will automatically turn on though

NIB, (edited ) do games w Behold, Diablo is fully playable in your browser

With geforce now(and other similar cloud gaming services), you can play all kinds of AAA games in your browser, including diablo 4.

SkybreakerEngineer,

Stadia Cands!

DNU, do games w Behold, Diablo is fully playable in your browser

now if this worked in mobile with a controller…

ving_thor,

DevilutionX works on Android. It also works with controllers. I’m not sure if it has controller support on Android though…

Kory, do games w Behold, Diablo is fully playable in your browser
@Kory@lemmy.ml avatar

This is old news, it’s working for over 5 years now.

Thaurin,

I think the WASM project diabloweb of DevilitionX has not been around for five years?

Kory,
@Kory@lemmy.ml avatar

If you do a quick web search, you can find 5 years old reddit posts that link to the exact same github of d07RiV that is first mentioned in the article. So I suppose DevilitionX will be around for the same amount of time.

Thaurin,

I see, I guess you’re right then. :) Maybe this was a major release then.

acetone, do wolnyinternet w USA: Meta (FB/Insta) zapłaci kolejne 1,4 miliarda dolarów za rozpoznawanie twarzy bez zgody
@acetone@pol.social avatar

@harcesz jak to było? Jeśli kara jest grzywna to prawo dotyczy tylko biednych?

harcesz,
!deleted269 avatar

Nie masz 2 miliardów dolarców na grzywny? Żenujące. Może czas zacząć wcześniej wstawać, ciężej pracować? /s

theangriestbird, do gaming w Metropolis 1998 lets you design every building in an isometric, pixel-art city

Looks awesome! and the fact that the dev is starting from a place of having the pathfinding algorithm figured out is promising. Better to start there, rather than end up like Cities: Skylines with abysmal frame rates that even top-end hardware can’t keep up with.

I’m not sure how I feel about the artstyle yet. It certainly looks gorgeous in screenshots, but I wonder if it will be difficult to read when you are actually playing. Camera rotation will be the key for me, personally. If I can’t rotate the camera to get alternate views, that might be a dealbreaker.

tomato,

It will probably allow you to rotate the camera every 90 degrees like cited Rollercoaster Tycoon. At least that’s what I would expect from a game with this kind of graphics.

ReplicantBatty, do gaming w Metropolis 1998 lets you design every building in an isometric, pixel-art city

Definitely checking this out, it looks like it will scratch a very specific itch lol

muhyb, do gaming w Metropolis 1998 lets you design every building in an isometric, pixel-art city

Nice! Added to my wishlist.

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