I can't even upvote comments; it moves to an "error"-showing webpage entirely. EDIT: Okay, now I can, but just a moment ago it wasn't working, repeatedly...
though kbin still doesn't render the code block correctly it seems
Yeah, I hope ernest (or someone else) fixes it soon. Mbin has fixed it, so it should be possible to check there how it was done.
I did make a frontend fix for it which is included in KES and available standalone on Greasyfork. But it would be much preferable if this was fixed in kbin itself.
I think the big problem is that the issue on codeberg is closed. Ernest never got involved, but other maintainers closed it as a "lemmy issue" which it isn't. Lemmy is federating completely legal HTML with escaping applied to spec and kbin should be able to understand it. Mbin can understand it.
Odd comparison, and internally inconsistent. They criticize KOTOR for having only one decision that affects the overall story, but fail to consider that SWG had zero decisions that affect the overall story.
It is true that as a multiplayer game there are theoretically more opportunities for roleplay in SWG, and if they’d focused on that it would make more sense and be more consistent.
Galaxies, on the other hand, is a more open-ended gaming world that lets you hunt Rancors, take bounty- hunter missions, craft hundreds of items. build factories, landscape cities, and par- ticipate in a player-run economy. Even if tending flora farms and building sofas aren’t emblematic Star Wars activities, they’re representative of the tremendous freedom you’re given to roleplay a virtual lifestyle of your own choosing.
That's the part that added roleplaying. reality is something like dwarf fortress adventure mode, or any colony sim is far more of a roleplaying game than most 'roleplaying' games, especially at the time.
I never played Galaxies, but I was always fascinated by the concept of it, especially before it was revamped. The idea of giving you the freedom to just exist in the world of Star Wars was always something I wished more games would do. I mean, I loved KOTOR for what it was, but you were still the main character of a story someone else had written. It's a shame nothing has really tried to emulate the style of Galaxies since then.
Can KOTOR be a better game than Galaxies, but not a better RPG?
We’ve waited decades for a Star Wars roleplaying game. We sat patiently while space-sim fans hunted TIE Fighters and shooter fans blasted Stormtroopers. We even idly watched pen-and-paper Star Wars RPGs be released, sulking as our tabletop- playing kin commenced aping Han Solo’s best lines. But now, finally, PC gamers. have been given the chance to roleplay characters in the Star Wars universe.
Well, actually, we have two opportunities, but the experiences offered by Star Wars: Galaxies and Knights of the Old Republic are radically dissimilar. Which one is the better RPG? Most of you will likely feel that KOTOR is the better game, since it’s far more polished and features a great story and extremely entertaining Jedi combat. But since you’re read- ing this column, chances are you like RPGs-and KOTOR is absolutely not a better RPG than Galaxies.
How can this be, you ask? Let’s first get a few things straight.
Roleplaying games are about meaningfully roleplaying personalized characters in a non-linear fashion. The first tabletop RPGs were designed with malleable rules systems that accommodated even the most imaginative player-actions. Those games were designed to allow you to create an alter-ego from among near-countless variations within the framework of the game world. The best computer RPGs (CRPGs) still strive to provide that sort of experience. although the medium naturally imposes. limitations on story and character.
RPGs are not primarily about “leveling up,” tweaking abilities, or acquiring swag. Those aren’t even RPG prerequisites, although they’re usually featured as a means of allowing gameplay to evolve. If you’re not given the opportunity to make consequential decisions, and to internalize the experience, then you’re not being given a meaningful opportunity to role-play. The more freedom you’re given to do whatever you want to do, the richer the roleplaying environmentalmost by definition. That’s what makes Morrowind, Fallout, and Gothic “true” RPGs in the classic sense.
This point brings us to KOTOR, and its superficial roleplaying. KOTOR’s environments are restrictive and linear in design, and there’s only one occasion when the player’s decision can significantly alter the direction of the story. Galaxies, on the other hand, is a more open-ended gaming world that lets you hunt Rancors, take bounty- hunter missions, craft hundreds of items. build factories, landscape cities, and par- ticipate in a player-run economy. Even if tending flora farms and building sofas aren’t emblematic Star Wars activities, they’re representative of the tremendous freedom you’re given to roleplay a virtual lifestyle of your own choosing. KOTOR’S largely non-interactive settings are just so much eye candy while you’re walking to the next action set-piece or predetermined NPC conversation.
Again, just because a game offers a richer environment for roleplaying doesn’t mean it’s more entertaining. Ultimately, KOTOR has it all over Galaxies for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that its battles are more tactically and viscerally satisfying. It’s chock-full of amazing. displays of Force powers and combat feats, and its story is genuinely compelling. There’s also a lot of reason to question. Galaxies design decision to limit Jedi abilities to the hardcore players willing to endure the extremely unintuitive and cryp tic process needed to reach Jedi status. Of the two Star Wars “RPGs” for PC, KOTOR is the one that delivers the quintessential “Jedi experience,” despite the fact that its strengths have little to do with roleplaying.
The CRPG genre has been steadily broadened to encompass games that offer few real chances to actually roleplay. It’s as if “story-driven game with adjustable stats” has become the new definition of “RPG.”
But the best RPG is still the one that allows you the greatest freedom to meaningfully roleplay- not the one with the best combat system or the coolest plot twists. If you accept that premise, Galaxies is a better RPG than KOTOR, and rarely have two RPGs better highlighted the evolving genre’s competing, almost schizophrenic, design philosophies.
Thanks for posting that. I had thought about this article a few times over the years. I always thought he did a good job of explaining what made a roleplaying game a roleplaying game. It wasn't that many years before this that 'action RPG' starting being used as a term and half the time 'rpg' was being used to mean nothing more than 'we have levels'
Also by this guy’s correct logic, Deus Ex is more truly an RPG than FF7.
Good luck explaining that to a JRPG fan without them becoming either manic or passive aggressive though.
Dont get me wrong, FF7 is a great story… but… as with nearly all ‘RPGs’… youre not really role playing, as role playing involves meaningfully being able to … play… the role you want… for your character(s).
Nearly all RPGs are more like role insertion: you are this character and this is how their story goes.
The Witcher and Mass Effect series both attempt to avoid this… though I’d argue that the Witcher series pulls this off far more convincingly.
Oh and of course Cyberpunk 2077, which is actually a great game now that its had years to get fixed up.
These 3 are still ultimately linear stories, but at least choices in decisions you make or things you do or do not do can have pretty significant impacts on the grander world / main storyline.
Hell, Kenshi is a better role playing game than most linear story ‘RPGs’ too, though you’ll likely need a few dialogue expansion mods for this effect to become more obvious/convincing.
I remember very briefly playing Galaxies in the mid-2000s when my college friends and I were looking for budget MMOs to play together (WoW was expensive for me and some others at the time). It was OK but we quickly moved on from it. We actually played Pirates of the Caribbean Online for the most time overall but never did find one that we all really liked.
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