trains

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Rentlar, w New World Train Electrification in Colour

A tiny pink line will appear if you were to zoom in to Mason City, Iowa, USA.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Nice find! I thought America only had it for New England and California.

BossDj,

Many of the big, blue cities will have some color if you zoom in. But only to commute within the area

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

The Yucatan peninsula has an electric line too!

mondoman712, w How do I learn a freight trains schedule?

There’s a facebook group for that line, perhaps they could help you: www.facebook.com/groups/upbelvideresub/

notfromhere, w FRA (US Federal Railroad Admin) Announces $900k in New Planning and Development Grants to Support Intercity Passenger Rail Services

$900k is like pissing in the wind, what are they going to accomplish with that?

Rentlar,

They mention that at least some of this money is to complete the application for big boi federal grants.

DarrinBrunner, w How AI Data Centers Could Save California High-Speed Rail

California already has water problems, and power problems. This is just trading one problem for another, worse problem.

Remember_the_tooth,

Yeah, and furthermore this is like handling a hostage situation by giving the kidnapper everything they want. These are the organizations that put the current administration and its party in power. This is the exact sort of fascism they’ve been investing in for decades. The possibility that a corporation can twist California’s arm into violating its principles and maybe even its needs should be cause for alarm. This isn’t “playing ball.” This is flagrant regulatory capture in real time.

davel, w Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern merging under 85 billion deal
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

It should be a monopoly… owned by the US.

safesyrup,

This is the only way

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

I think the rails should be owned by the US, but they could be operators on those rails. Like in the UK, or how our airlines work

litchralee, w Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern merging under 85 billion deal

In my dreams, regulators would require UP and NS to divest older or redundant ROW so that publicly-owned transit systems can repurpose them for passenger rail services. Even so much as a single-track minor branch line could be reinvigorated with high-floor DMUs while maintaining freight access in the off-hours, such as with SMART in San Francisco area. And in the long run, electrification without UP’s typical objections to overhead wires could enable performant EMUs like with CalTrain.

But like I said, all this is only “in my dreams”…

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

Fully agree. In a civilized modern country the government would own the rails (because, I mean obviously it would) and operators would put out timetables and requests for trains - all managed by the government. Just like the UK and most other countries, the government is in charge of maintaining the rails, keeping them safe, and expansion, while the operators do what they do best - they manage their schedules and try to squeeze the most profit out of it.

It’s a win-win, private industry doesn’t have to worry about safety or maintenance beyond their own vehicles, they work with the government on scheduling, and passenger rail would get a resurgence because adding new train lines and stops would just be a matter of starting a new operator.

If you thought of a new commuter line that you think would benefit a region, it wouldn’t be trying to convince Amtrak to do it - you could literally raise the money and start your own operator, lease some vehicles, and then literally just start running your train line operated on government tracks. Just as the semis do on the interstate system, just like airlines do.

litchralee, (edited )

In a civilized modern country the government would own the rails

I agree with the sentiment, but also have to mention some implementation quirks that should be addressed along the way.

Just like the UK

I personally find the UK to be something of mixed bag. Yes, they do have Network Rail managing the fixed infrastructure for the national rail system, but they’ve bungled the working model with a half-hearted attempt at semi-privati(s)ation with franchise operators for different rail segments. And while that problem has flared and simmered since the 80s, attempts to fully open the network for any operator (aka open access) runs into the age-old problem of too much demand.

Open access – which should absolutely be a starting point of any regulated monopoly, government owned or not – comes with the challenge where if every train operator wants to run their own London to Edinburgh service, then very quickly, the East Coast Main Line and West Coast Main Line are going to be booked up, leaving scant capacity for local service. Obviously, a high-speed corridor between Scotland and England would solve that particular issue, but the central challenge remains one of finding balance: local vs long-distance express, minimum train speeds, freight capacity, first-class vs economy vs sleepers. Open-access is open like a door, but even the widest doors enter to a limited space.

The proper balance is a matter of policy, rather than technical merit, so I’m not entirely sold on the notion that it should be the infrastructure manager (eg Network Rail) making those decisions. Such decisions would have major consequences, and so I think properly belong to public policy makers (eg lawmakers or regulatory agencies). But for technical decisions like loading gauge or max axle loads, those are almost exclusively for the infra manager to adopt, but with public consultation with operators and the public. After all, we wouldn’t want adoption of obsolete or unusable standards on the national system.

they work with the government on scheduling

I think this is implied, but I’ll state it for clarity: operators should have to make a showing to the regulator that their services operate “in the public’s interest” before being granted access to the national rails. And even when granted access, operators must conform to the infra manager’s technical requirements for uniform operation.

In the USA, this is almost identical to the process of setting up a television broadcast: radio spectrum is a limited commodity, and so it must be used in furtherance of public interest. In practice, this isn’t a very high standard, but it does prevent waste such as having one’s own private TV channel. So too would it be wasteful to schedule a “corporate train” service for the exclusive use of select personnel while still physically occupying the rails despite carrying zero passengers.

Basically, there’s much to be fixed in the USA, but the UK model could also use some work too, towards a principled model that maximizes the public investment.

scrubbles,
!deleted6348 avatar

Completely get all of your points, and respect them. I think on the spectrum of bad to perfect systems, I see the UK as “good” - but a long ways from perfect too. The US however is just obviously bad, and I think moving towards the UK’s system would be a massive step in the right direction. Personally, I think the first step is that the private companies should not own the rails themselves, they have proven that they are not the proper stewards of those systems and should not own that.

That’s step one. After step one though, I completely see your points and that there would be a lot of details worth looking into.

And, as someone how has ridden the Azuma service from London to Edinburgh 4 times - I have seen it cancelled twice. Ridiculous that in my very very infrequent trips to the UK I have seen my train trips cancelled just as many times as I’ve ridden them.

litchralee,

There is exactly one nice thing I can say about the USA rail system, and it kinda underscores essentially every issue we have with the rails today: the privately-owned railroads are absurdly good at moving freight.

If we were to ignore the entire notion of using trains to move passengers, then suddenly the American railroads are remarkable in how much tonnage they can move over across the continent, even with their horrifically skeletal network, and still achieve the highest energy efficiency for land transport. They really shouldn’t be as successful as they are, given that they have unionized labor, are not exempt from federal emissions regulations, and serve huge tracts of the country using only single-track lines dating back to the 19th Century.

To say that they’ve devoted all of their efforts to making freight work is an understatement. And it is from this foundation that all other uses of the rails are incompatible. And it shows.

The national passenger operator, when seeking to (re)start a line somewhere, must negotiate with host railroads – except when Amtrak owns the tracks, such as in New England – and that’s primarily a matter of paying for time on the track, plus the “inconvenience” of regular schedule services when most freight doesn’t really need to follow a schedule at all.

Unlike any other product or service, there is no eminent domain at the state-level for access to a railroad, so if a small public transit operator is rebuffed by the host railroad in their area, then that’s basically it. Only Amtrak has a right to use eminent domain for railroads, and that’s only ever been used once, resulting in a 20 year lawsuit to settle the matter at great cost.

Query whether a wealthy state like California or Texas can make a market-rate offer to outright buy the rail network within their state. I imagine the answer is yes, though this would have been much more useful if the idea came up when Southern Pacific was having their difficulties in the 1990s. Further query whether a state-owned railroad located in multiple states can unilaterally deny access to all other states – like what the private railroads can do. Who knows.

MoonMelon,

In the USA our wildest dreams are maybe having a sort of crappy version of the technology we already had up and running in the 1890s.

litchralee,

In all fairness, we do have a few objectively nicer things, like level-boarding for wheelchairs and strollers into LRT carriages, and pantographs rather than trolley poles.

But we did lose 100+ MPH operation in the 30s, when the 79 MPH track limits came into being for most railroads.

So in total, if that’s all we’ve progressed after a century, then yeah, we haven’t gone very far.

pdxfed, (edited ) w China's HSR has served 22 billion passengers since 2009

It also didn’t exist and now is at 25,000+ miles of track.

The US, meanwhile has exactly one “highish speed” line in the country from DC to NY that hasn’t improved in decades.

Failed state

usrtrv, w How do I learn a freight trains schedule?

There are groups out there that monitor train routes. And some publish to the Web.

In theory you could hook up an software defined radio and listen to train transponders yourself and give yourself a warning if one is nearby.

Wooster, w Inside America’s First High Speed Rail
@Wooster@startrek.website avatar

A lot of good first steps, but this shouldn’t be owned by a private company.

Novi,

That’s how things are done in the USA.

Wooster,
@Wooster@startrek.website avatar

Doesn’t mean we should shrug it off as acceptable.

yokonzo,

Still shouldn’t be

Taleya,

It should also be high speed. That speed is honestly laughable

Alexstarfire,

I’m not watching the video, what type of speed are we talking about?

Xavienth,

It says 200 mph in the description, or 320 kph. That’s respectable.

Vendul, w Why Locomotives Don't Have Tires - Practical Engineering

deleted_by_author

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  • magnetosphere,
    @magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

    I’m nine and find his voice hypnotic

    Rentlar,

    He’s a dad with a kid in that growing up phase. I think it makes it very accessible for people to learn the history of decades of design decisions.

    sharkfucker420, w Don't get jealous
    @sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

    It is far too late 😔

    AnnaFrankfurter, w Railway electrification of India by State in 2024

    Sorry to be a buzzkill but ~70% of India’s electricity is coming from coal powerplants. They are working on using nuclear and renewable but still currently it is mostly coal.

    zemon,

    Might still be better for the environment overall than running trains on oil. I don’t know if any study exists on the topic.

    AnnaFrankfurter,

    I’m not sure about efficiency of oil engines vs electric engines but at least infrastructure is already available and once India switches to nuclear/renewable it’ll help massively…

    glowing_hans,

    Coal fired plants are more energy and heat efficient than internal combustion engines on trains. Waste heat can be used for industrial areas. Also the pollution is localized and heavy duty filters can be installed, while the train can not carry heavy filters without worse transport efficiency.

    daw,

    Electrification is always the first step to sustainability (at least from the efficiency approach to sustainability, post growth approaches should always come first) You can’t put clean energy into a diesel engine, to switch any electric system over from fossil electricity to clean electricity is much easier and most importantly can be done in increments making it easier to get going on such shifts.

    jol, w Railway electrification of India by State in 2024

    Wow that’s amazing. Only like 60% of German rail is electrified, for comparison.

    lambipapp, w Old World Train Electrification in Colour

    Idk for others, but Sweden does not seem to be complete. Inlandsbanan is at least partly electric nowdays

    SomeGuy69, w New World Train Electrification in Colour
    @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

    Damn USA that’s a shame. Zero fucks given of you guys.

    Sunshine,
    @Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

    Canada: hold my beer!

    SomeGuy69, (edited )
    @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

    For more mountainous or thick forest areas this is understandably. It required combustion engine trains, simply because of steep mountains, where it’s difficult to put down power lines or forests with a lot of trees who can easily destroy power lines. USA however is mostly flat. Looking at some like Austria or Swiss, if I see this correctly, they also are on a good way. Here we have a lot of hybrid but in general our train transport is a mess of mixed.

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