trains

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Jumuta, w A train pulling into Melbourne Central Station in Naarm

slippery trampoline

mercano, w The World’s Largest Electric Vehicle Is Ready For Its Closeup
@mercano@lemmy.world avatar

Wouldn’t it be more energy efficient to just electrify the line rather than charging & hauling around batteries? The technology has been around since checks notes the late 1800s.

Ptsf,

Not to mention trains are a particularly good candidate for hydrogen fuel cells.

SomeoneSomewhere,

Hydrogen has a major efficiency problem. Unless the electricity to create the hydrogen is practically free (i.e. grid price is zero, you’re turning off generators) it’s not worth it. You’re at like 30% round trip efficiency whereas batteries and overhead lines are well above 90%.

Using hydrogen also prevents regenerative braking, which is one of the big advantages of battery or overhead electric.

Ptsf,

True, but eletric overhead has significant upkeep and initial investment costs, as well as pure grid reliance. Batteries have significant weight, cost, and technical requirements combined with a relatively low lifeapan. Every energy system is going to have it’s downsides. Hydrogen fits well in train use cases because they often rely on being able to fuel relatively quickly (low downtime means less expensive engines required), operate in areas with unreliable grids (urban through shipping), and it has a relatively low initial investment cost (about on par with regular diesel). Hopefully it would be generated with on-site renewables, but we’ll cross that road when we get to it. Oh, and another thing people often forget about batteries is that once you account for losses in transmission, voltage conversion, and charging it ends up being significantly less efficient. I’ve been unable to find exact statistics for this in % though.

disconnectikacio,

In Europe we have nearly every frequently used railways with overhead wires, so it not so hard, and expensive :)

Ptsf,

Very different grid, climate, and landscape.

SomeoneSomewhere,

25kV railway electrification is normally very separate from local electric grids.

Grid ‘reliability’ issues are normally load shedding or damage at the distribution level; the 10-22kV local networks. DC networks like third rail and 1500V are often supplied from local substations.

Long distance 25kV lines are almost always fed directly from big substations on the grid backbone - here in NZ, they’re all from the 220kV substations at roughly 140km spacing; I believe in the UK it’s almost all from 400kV subs. Those are extremely reliable and well monitored because no-one wants to be doing a grid black start, and loss of a grid backbone substation gives you a pretty good chance of the whole grid falling over. 25kV railway electrification is rock solid.

NZ’s grid is roughly 93% efficient; half of that is in the transmission (long-distance) and the other half in distribution. We have one of the worst grid layouts for transmission efficiency because most of the generation is in the deep south while the load is in the north, with an underwater section in between.

Batteries and charging is IIRC around 90% efficient, round trip. Call it 75% from generator terminals to motor terminals.

If you’re not generating the hydrogen right at the generator, you’ll also be incurring grid losses to get the power to the hydrogen plant.

If you are generating hydrogen at the generators, you’ll then need to transport the hydrogen even further. I’m struggling to find exact figures for losses in natural gas networks, but my understanding is that leakage is several percent. Any large-scale hydrogen system could end up being similar, plus you now need a shipping industry to move the hydrogen to the point of consumption.

davel, w Old World Train Electrification in Colour
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

I wonder how Afro-Eurasia feels about being called old.

SomeoneSomewhere,

New Zealand is famously a very old country.

lnxtx, w The World’s Largest Electric Vehicle Is Ready For Its Closeup
@lnxtx@feddit.nl avatar

[…] “world’s largest battery electric vehicle.”

lnxtx,
@lnxtx@feddit.nl avatar

No overhead wires, it looks weird.

wtypstanaccount04, w Trains in the Netherlands 2024
@wtypstanaccount04@hexbear.net avatar

I like trains

Aradina, w Trains in the Netherlands 2024
@Aradina@lemmy.ml avatar

Briefly thought this photo was from Naarm/Melbourne in Melbourne central station. I’ll get a picture from there to compare today!

Very neat

NarrativeBear, w Trains in the Netherlands 2024

I love how wide the platform is. Plenty of space for activities.

PanArab, w Old World Train Electrification in Colour
@PanArab@lemmy.ml avatar

The new Etihad Rail isn’t electrified?! Shame…

over_clox, w New World Train Electrification in Colour

Posted image is literally in grayscale (though the provided link is in color).

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Because the vast majority of the rail lines in the Americas are fossil fuel powered.

over_clox,

I checked your provided link, practically all the lines in the USA were orange, not black.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s for existing rails you have to click the electrification option.

over_clox,

Lemmy preview doesn’t care about that, you literally shared the grayscale version and called it colored.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Zoom in closer and you see the colour. Why are you so negative?

over_clox,

Not being negative, just telling you what I see. Also, you didn’t provide a color code, nor did you suggest phone users to zoom in.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Yay, I get more criticisms.

That’s why I said colour in the title and phone users already know they must zoom in on map data.

over_clox,

You should declare that then, when practically the whole map is in grayscale. Some of us have piss poor vision, I’m at 20/500 vision myself, and my pupils are starting to solidify. Plus my glasses are tinted.

Also, why no actual color guide?

Vrtrx,

Here is the map again. And here is the legend with your color guide

over_clox,

Thank you. However, I still cannot see the colored areas without at least a few hints on where to look.

Vrtrx,

That’s because there aren’t a lot of electrified lines and America is pretty big. So in order to get all of America in the picture I had to zoom out but by doing that little details obviously get lost. Here is the link. This one should already be set to show electrification. With this you can zoom and look wherever you want

over_clox,

Thank you very kindly 👍

xep,

Yes, I think that is rather the point.

smokinliver,

Dont take that personal, I enjoyed your post and its really not your fault ppl cant even read map descriptions.

Thx for posting <3

over_clox,

Then you should clarify that people should check the link if they want to see the colored map.

tostiman,
@tostiman@sh.itjust.works avatar

No it’s not, zoom in on the north-east of the USA.

over_clox,

Thank you, very helpful 👍

abysmalpoptart,

I think the original poster posted this intentionally as sarcasm because there is so little color in the image. If you look at the original image and look at the USA North east near new york, you’ll see a few meager lines that are various colors (as well as a few slivers in south and central america, and what looks like a dot in los Angeles). This is showcasing just how little electrified rail exists in the americas.

It may not seem like it, but it is actually in color. I’m on mobile and am able to see it. If you’re not able to, it may be an issue with your app or method of viewing the post.

over_clox,

If you check the link they shared, it’s practically all orange, so they did not share the default view, nor a color legend to go along with it.

Jumuta,

yea ofc the map is orange, it’s showing the infrastructure type instead of electrification

yk how maps work right?

over_clox,

Not entirely, not when the map site just kicks me back to Lemmy when I attempt to change ‘Style’

abysmalpoptart,

That is correct, it isn’t the default view, it’s the electrification view, which OP inferred they were using (the title says electrification map). If you open the link, the orange is worldwide general rail infrastructure.

If you click the top right options button (the 3 line “hamburger” icon at the far top right, separate from the map layers), you’ll see an option for electrification. This is the map they shared.

The grayscale option actually only grayscales the territory, not the infrastructure. I hope this helps clarify the situation.

I do agree that a legend would have been helpful.

over_clox, w Old World Train Electrification in Colour

Oh, well at least this post is in color…

Hugh_Jeggs,

For context, there was a post the same that said “New world train electrification in colour” with a map of the Americas that had only a tiny bit of colour

This bellend ☝️ went off on a rant about how the map wasn’t in colour, completely missing the entire point of the map lol

over_clox,

I checked their link, all our tracks in the USA were orange. No reference to a color guide in their post.

thisnameisnottolong,

Maybe you could make your own post the way you like it, instead of being hypercritical of someone else’s efforts.

over_clox,

Maybe if I understood their post in the first place. We got too many train derailments over here, they all scare the fuck out of me.

Hugh_Jeggs,

So uh get in muh fower tun truck and drive like a goddamn infant

Jumuta,

maps can have different layers lmao

over_clox,

Indeed. Might be nice if OP suggested to change what they call ‘Style’ to Electrification when viewing their source link.

Also might be nice if the map site didn’t just kick me back to Lemmy when I attempt to change it.

makingrain,
@makingrain@lemm.ee avatar

Some people eh

lambipapp, w Old World Train Electrification in Colour

Idk for others, but Sweden does not seem to be complete. Inlandsbanan is at least partly electric nowdays

SomeGuy69, w New World Train Electrification in Colour
@SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

Damn USA that’s a shame. Zero fucks given of you guys.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Canada: hold my beer!

SomeGuy69, (edited )
@SomeGuy69@lemmy.world avatar

For more mountainous or thick forest areas this is understandably. It required combustion engine trains, simply because of steep mountains, where it’s difficult to put down power lines or forests with a lot of trees who can easily destroy power lines. USA however is mostly flat. Looking at some like Austria or Swiss, if I see this correctly, they also are on a good way. Here we have a lot of hybrid but in general our train transport is a mess of mixed.

Rentlar, w New World Train Electrification in Colour

A tiny pink line will appear if you were to zoom in to Mason City, Iowa, USA.

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

Nice find! I thought America only had it for New England and California.

BossDj,

Many of the big, blue cities will have some color if you zoom in. But only to commute within the area

Sunshine,
@Sunshine@lemmy.ca avatar

The Yucatan peninsula has an electric line too!

nokturne213, w Inside America’s First High Speed Rail

I would love a train from Albuquerque to Denver. Currently for that trip you have to go through Chicago.

espentan,

Holy cow, now that’s what I call a detour.

over_clox, w New World Train Electrification in Colour

Grayscale ≠ Color

f314,

That’s kind of the point: if you zoom in on the East coast you can see some color. This just really effectively shows how little of the rail network is actually electrified.

over_clox,

And isn’t one of the points of Lemmy and the fediverse in general to help those with vision deficiencies?

Like, describe the image, offer a color guide, suggest zooming in?

f314,

Sure, OP could easily have done a better job with accessibility!

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