During what I still consider the golden age of gaming, which is 1997-2004, most single player games were aiming for 30-35 hours. That has been my sweet spot ever since but it doesn't mean a game can't be satisfying with less than that.
I personally don't find anything shorter than 10 hours enough of an experience. 25-30 sounds very reasonable.
I don't personally mind 300 hour games but the way AC and most other games present them is exhausting. I don't want my map full of shit to do. I want to get the core experience, which should be the main story and after that sprinkle of stuff to do here and there which is all optional and there if enjoyed the world enough to keep going.
Why Ubi and others haven't figured this out, I have no idea. It's the best of both worlds.
Yeah, would much prefer depth of content to breadth. I love exploring and finding things as much as the next completioninst, but if it is just filler, the world feels hollow. Last handful of AC games have been massive maps with very little uniqueness outside the main story. Also hate auto generated fetch quests and mobile game stores they shove in.
Ghostwire Tokyo felt like a pretty good length for an open world game. There were a bunch of relatively short side quests, and the usual collectibles but the whole thing was 100% complete in under 30 hours. Thier rougelike DLC add-on might push it over that, but it's basically a whole separate game.
Same, and I didn't even finish Inquisition. Bioware didn't need open world filler injected in its narrative based games and worlds, and those forced elements are what killed them off for a while. Then there was the disaster that was Anthem, which also had big, shallow open world and a craptacular mission design that forced you to a full stop to grind dumb boring shit (at which point I quit) before continuing the not terrible, but barely adequate campaign that I would've probably managed to finish if not for that grind gate.
When BioWare announced they had made each planet on Andromeda bigger than the largest area in Inquisition, my stomach sank, because Inquisition had already been pushing it with the bloat.
I watched a review by this YouTuber who hated Andromeda but decided to give it another shot on a whim, only this time to just do the main and loyalty missions, and he said it was like night and day and the game actually was good and the story felt better and like there were actual stakes. All that more for the sake of more hurt the game more than a lot of folks realize.
I always like the episodes where he covers things that eventually turned out well, but took some weird turns to get there. I’m super glad the remake eventually did come out, and nailed it.
Honestly, good. I don’t think every game needs to be this massive, sprawling open world that takes a hundred hours or more to complete. There is plenty of room for a more focused experience. And that’s coming from someone who is a big fan of open world games in general.
As fun as the Witcher is, the world may have been too big. Not every location had a quest, not every quest was necessary… some side quests were kinda bad. And it had a lot of collection bloat. The first zone wasn’t too bad. Small and focused, with collection stuff. It’s pretty nice. But trying to 100% everything after that is a nightmare.
Skyrim is a weird one, the main game is not the main story, but rather all the side stuff. It had collection bloat, but in the form of dungeons and quests. It didn’t really do the whole “legendary gear is in this obscure chest on the top of this random mountain that you have to visit on the 3rd Tuesday at 5am” thing. So while Skyrim is pretty big, it doesn’t feel like nightmarish, collection bloat that’s overwhelming.
Red Dead Redemption 2 was able to take both these approaches and make it work. It has a tone of secrets and things to collect. But it was done in a way that It didn’t feel mandatory. You feel satisfied doing the main story, but also by just going around and doing the side content like in Skyrim. But like Skyrim, sometimes people just want to stop the msq at certain places and just chill in the game doing random whatevers. However, like Witcher all the random collections and side content does feel overwhelmingly impossible to complete in its scope. I found a few YouTube channels dedicated to secrets and obscure side content in this game and its insane how much there is. And a lot of it is missable after certain points in the story. There is no way to 100% this game without a guide. With Witcher and Skyrim its at least possible without a guide.
25-30 is perfect to me. I’m currently playing Mass Effect, and I’m at about 30 hours and on the last mission. Just long enough to get in the world but not so long that it wears out its welcome.
Yeah, a lot of the time games like that are mostly spent running between locations. I just played through RDR2 again and as much as I love the game, most of the ~80 hours of content it has is traveling between missions on horse. I think 25 hours of pure content is just fine unless that 25 hours also includes uneventful traveling.
That sounds good, but I hope they tweak the default controller scheme to make it more intuitive. Last time I tried using a controller, it was a terrible experience, and it was just easier to use the mouse and keyboard. They could learn a thing or two from PSO2 and PSO2 NGS, which at the very least, has a decent controller scheme.
Don't compare your game to another game which is literally a billion times better. Yours is just space invader in a circle but worse. Sorry but that was a very boring trailer, not highlighting very many interesting customisation if any.
Thank you for being honest. But hey, how dare I compare my side project to those mega super hits? I just used them as references since they are really games that inspired mine. It's not and not meant to be VS or Brotato killer. No. But I do hope and am trying my best to make it have values of its own. Give it a chance when the free demo is out, will you?
That person was insanely harsh for no reason. I’m sure lots of people thought similar things about VS before it took off. Don’t sweat it, your game looks cool.
Good luck with your game! However, if I can make a suggestion:
Think of a way to describe your creation without referencing another game. This might be the only time you're going to get it in front of my eyes, and I know nothing because I've never played the two games you used to compare it to (never even heard of one of them in fact), so I'm not going be hyped or follow it. (While it's true there's a trailer, I'm not in a spot where I can watch it.)
Marketing is important to success, use your limited eyeball time well!
I think in general people do. The concern is that the devs will be splitting their focus and their team between two games, and it potentially splits the playerbase and the economy.
There are some concerns that this means PoE1's issues won't be addressed as well. PoE2 was made to solve many of the problems that PoE1 has, and they continued to develop the game beyond that scope to the point it became it's own product and changed too much of PoE, and because PoE2 is such a significantly different game, it risks alienating their existing playerbase, so they are now preserving PoE1's gameplay, while making the changes they wanted to make for PoE2 which should attract more players.
But that now means that those solutions that were developed to fix PoE1's problems are now only in PoE2 and tied to an overall total rework of the game built around those solutions and how they change the game. Things like how the skill gem system works to be more simple, mana reservation no longer existing, etc.
Ultimately it's no different than having WoW and WoW classic. Just hopefully they'll have a large enough playerbase between both games to justify maintaining both. Their idea of staggering releases does mean that many players will likely swap between the two though and play both.
They did answer in a Q&A later on at Exilecon that the games run the same engine and things can be ported between the games, if there is content that's popular in PoE2 they may release it in PoE1 and vice-versa. The only real thing that cannot be ported is the character animations.
This does also mean that since purchases are shared, MTX have to be made multiple times for the 7 PoE1 character models and for the 12 PoE2 character models.
tl;dr If you like the existing PoE1 gameplay, PoE1 will continue to exist largely as it is now. If you like PoE2 more, then you will have that. And if you like both you can continue to play both and there will be more overall content to play between the two with the staggered releases.
While that sounds bad for POE 1, the QoL changes and fixes for PoE2 sound like what I always wanted for PoE1. I want to like PoE 1, but many of the systems were too complicated for me to want to deal with, and since I was a casual, occaisional player, a lot of stuff would change by the time I would come back, and I wouldn't even know where to start anymore.
If they've reduced complexity and made things more intuitive, I might give PoE2 a shot when it releases. That said, if it's possible, they should backport as much of that stuff as they can to PoE1. There are still a lot of people who want to play it and probably would play it in the future, even with the launch of its sequel.
I heard a streamer describe it as while PoE2 looks harder combat-wise, there is a lot less hidden mandatory knowledge and building so it's more approachable.
PoE2 has more punishing mechanics, combat is more active and you need to dodge enemy attacks, and bosses reset HP if you die. But you don't have the same checklist of things you need to be viable, and there's less focus on knowing the mathed out optimal setups since support gems are now focused on changing skill behavior rather than providing multiplicative damage boosts.
The game has already consumed over 40 hours of my time, and I've got plenty more campaign to go. It does just about all the stuff I wanted JA2 to have to make it play faster - combat is faster, looting is faster, inventory is faster. It has a few things that look like X-COM, but it still mostly plays like JA. The early game is the roughest part but things definitely shaped up once I had a team with size, experience and gear.
And the campaign is detailed with a few surprises and plenty of side quests - it does some things to pull the rug on you, which is rude, but rewarding if you play along and accept a few losses(or carefully savescum and go out of your way to avoid triggering timed quests).
I absolutely love the two games and I didn't think anyone who hasn't played the games would enjoy the anime. So maybe that's a good indication for you?
First game is a cute and sweet game about crafting and small adventures. If you like crafting, you would enjoy the game.
Second game was like the first game but with more real plot and better combat.
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