Honestly, if I had the skills I’d be doing that as an explicit fuck you to the draconian anticheat bullshit they force on everyone, because what better fuck you than showing all that effort was for naught, especially close to launch.
EA can go fuck themselves with the world’s biggest cactus.
CSGO used to have Overwatch which is an anti cheat system that uses trusted and experienced players to go through video footage of reported players. With this method I both reported blatant spinbotters, wall hacking, and other chears. I also was on the side of watching back footage of hacking players.
Say AI trains on this data, it might work.
I’m not a fan of this though because knowledgeable and experienced players will be better than AI.
What actually exists but what I have yet to see implemented in any game I play are those server-side “AI anti-cheat” solutions like from anybrain that basically just analyse the players behavior to fit certain criteria. According to areweanticheatyet.com though there are four games using it already (the most well-known one probably being Lost Ark). In theory ai models can be very efficient and accurate at this (we are not talking about transformer models here like with the current llm craze) but that all depends on how they train a model and what the training data looks like.
I am not sure what the user above is thinking, but to play devil’s advocate:
One thing that modern AI does well is pattern recognition. An AI trained on player behavior, from beginner level all the way up to professional play, would be able to acquire a thorough understanding of what human performance looks like (which is something that games have been developing for a long time now, to try to have bots more accurately simulate player behavior).
I remember someone setting up their own litmus test using cheats in Tarkov where their main goal was just to observe the patterns of other players who are cheating. There are a lot of tells, a big one being reacting to other players who are obscured by walls. Another one could be the way in which aimbots immediately snap and lock on to headshots.
It could be possible to implement a system designed to flag players whose behavior is seen as too unlike normal humans, maybe cross-referencing with other metadata (account age/region/sudden performance anomalies/etc) to make a more educated determination about whether or not someone is likely cheating, without having to go into kernel-level spying or other privacy-invasive methods.
But then…this method runs the risk of eventually being outmatched by the model facilitating it: an AI trained on professional human behavior that can accurately simulate human input and behave like a high performing player, without requiring the same tools a human needs to cheat.
Cheating humans already perform closely enough to trick such a system. Many cheaters are smart enough to use an aimbot only for a split-second to nail the flick. With a tiny bit of random offset, those inputs indistinguishable from a high-skill player.
These tricks may make it indistinguishable to a human moderator, but machine learning is actually really good at detecting that. But most companies don’t have the expertise, resources or training data to build a proper model for it.
Machine Learning is really good at CLAIMING it detected that.
The reality is that every few months there is a story about a fairly big streamer/e-sports player MAYBE getting caught cheating on stream. Sometimes it is obvious and sometimes it really becomes “Did they just know the map well enough to expect someone to come around that corner?”.
And a lot of times… it really is inconclusive. A somewhat common trope in movies is the veteran gunslinger literally aims at the wall of a stairwell and tracks where they expect the head to be and either fires a few rounds through the wall or waits for them at the bottom and… that is not entirely inconceivable considering that people tend to not crouch or move erratically down stairs. Obviously Jonathan Banks has a wallhack but Mike Ehrmantraut is just that damned good.
And false positives are a great way to basically kill a game. ESPECIALLY if they are associated with demonstrably false negatives too.
But you can be damned sure most of the major esports games are already doing this. It really isn’t expensive to train and they have direct feeds of every player in a tournament or twitch event. The issue is that there are (hopefully) tens of thousands of servers active at any moment and running Computer Vision+Inference on every single server is very costly.
And… I seem to recall there was a recent intentionally poorly defined Movement about maybe keeping user hostable dedicated servers a thing? How does that mesh with having every single server need to phone hom (a fraction of) all 32 players feeds to a centralized cluster?
Machine learning doesn’t necessarily require a centralized cluster. Usually running those kinds of models is pretty cheap, it’s not an LLM basically. They usually do better than human moderators as well, able to pick up on very minute ‘tells’ these cheats have.
I understand your point about edge cases, but that’s not something the average player cares about much. E-sports is a pretty niche part of any game, especially the higher ranks. You just want to filter out the hackers shooting everyone each game that truly ruin the enjoyment. Someone cheating to rank gold instead of silver or whatever isn’t ruining game experiences; they’re usually detectable too, but if you get a false negative on that it’s not the end of the world. A smurf account of a very highly ranked player probably has a bigger impact on players’ enjoyment.
Depending on the model, inference can be run with CPU only. To distinguish what was originally proposed (a momentary flick consistent with aimbotting), you are either doing ray tracing (really expensive) or analyzing (effectively) video feeds. Both of which tend to put things more into the GPU realm which drastically increases the cost of a server.
But also? The only way these models can work is with constant data. Which means piping feeds back home for training which basically is never inexpensive.
Aside from that: if it was as simple as you are suggesting then this would be a solved problem. Similarly, if people don’t care about hackers outside of e-sports then there would be no reason for games to spend money on anti-cheat solutions when any match that matters would have heavy scrutiny. And yet, studios keep pumping out the cash for EAC and the like.
Since human beings are hot garbage and will always cheat, I really enjoyed playing against the AI soldiers in BF. It can also ensure that the game is playable forever OFFLINE.
Where I live I cant play BF4 anymore. Servers are down for my country, but I paid money for the game. Digital media is a scam once the servers go down. That is why I jailbroke every console I own. Ppl are already reviving BF2 with AI bots. The future is looking bright.
Pretty much the same as all the other modern BFs. They all had cheats in the Beta/early release versions. I’ve played and own literally every BF game since the original release of 1942. Cheats have always been present more or less.
My machine went into a boot loop and I had to clear CMOS to boot again.
I wonder how many people without the resources to fix a problem like that easily are going to end up without computers for an extended period of time because of this.
I had issues aswell where I couldn’t boot, and you wanna know why? Because I didn’t follow the step by step instructions EA tells you to follow. Follow those instructions, and it’ll work just fine.
From my research, while I could see that being the case, “Secure Boot” is classified by the Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project as Tivoization, and GPL-3 was made to fix that. That’s how I saw it, at least.
Same. Keeps things simple with Linux, and Windows doesn’t even complain about it being disabled, so long as it’s present. I’ll never understand why it’s even required if you don’t even have to enable it.
So they can have an excuse to force you to upgrade to Windows 11 beyond “whoops, turns out making an operating system as a ‘buy once’ product is a bad idea.”
Joke’s on them; I already upgraded to Windows 11. I was among the first. It’s actually a solid OS once you disable all the ads and telemetry with O&O Shut Up 10.
You can still get win 11 without TPM by using Rufus and bypassing TPM which will have to be done for a lot of old PCs and we will have to do it by October this year.
Your computer will gradually get more and more filled with security holes that will be problematic to patch. Eventually, programs will stop supporting it as well.
Does this disable updates though? My wife somehow had Win11 installed on her pc without enabling secure boot, and her updates got so far behind that now it refuses to update and needs to be reinstalled.
I am still baffled that anyone thinks that Kernel AC is any kind of effective at stopping hacks, people have been literally making a living off of defeating it, and selling those hacks / methods for almost a decade now…
But nope, still got hordes of idiot gamers who think they work, think they’re necessary, think they can’t be spoofed.
Not sure how you could read this and come away with the idea that I do believe that…
I am talking about the subset of gamers that go on internet forums and discord servers and make false, unsupported claims as to the effectiveness or necessity or Kernel AC over other forms of AC, tell people this just is how it is now, get with the program, eat the bugs, play the spyware game, its fine, everyone is doing it.
Indirectly buyers are making a decision on anticheat. If someone buys a game with anticheat, they’ve made the decision to reward the developer for making the decision to include anticheat.
We have to ask the question if cheat developing wasn’t profitable, and even if developers actually operated at a loss, would there be as many cheats on the market as there are now?
You can, but most everything that would let you run your own boot-time code is supposed to end up in the TPM event log, which the TPM is happy to attest to with its unique/uniquely bannable attestation key. Not too difficult to set it up so that no attestation = no access.
This type of attestation is far from perfect for a lot of different reasons, and it would be really impractical to automate bans with it, but I guess it's a tool they see value in.
so glad we have to give huge corporations tons of access to our private data just to play a game we paid for! so cool!
Real talk: Not all multiplayer games require kernal level anti cheat. Fortnite is a good example. If this type of anti-cheat, forced secure boot is so necessary to prevent cheating, why doesn’t Fortnite have problems with rampant cheating? Or do they and I just don’t notice because I’m losing either way? lol
There are a lot of good reasons for secure boot both in game and in general. If your distro does not support it then that should be a complaint directed towards the maintainers. And… getting that through Proton is a different mess.
But EA have been spending the past year or so actively updating older Battlefields (I want to say all the way back to 3?) to actively block linux/proton. For whatever reason, they actively want to block anything but Windows for their games.
Secure boot can be used as part of a chain that eventually ends with unlocking your cryptographic keys only if the software stack has not been modified.
Sure, for most people that’ll make little difference, but it is an actual benefit.
First, Yo. Doesn’t even need to be a good password.
Second, what you are describing is something very different. Outside of very rare situations (most of which theoretical or specifically targeting a specific system by a state level actor), to be able to “boot the bios and disable it” would generally mean the machine is already VERY compromised or the bad actor has physical access to the machine.
A good way of thinking of it is that secure boot isn’t the lock on the door. It is the peephole that you look through to make sure that the person with your pizzas is from Georgio’s AND you actually ordered pizza. Rather than just opening the door because “Yo, free food”.
On its own? It doesn’t do much. But it goes a LONG way towards improving security when combined with other tools/practices.
I was able to get around secure boot by installing the beta on my PS5. From then, I had the pleasure of being unable to enter due to broken menus! Can’t complain for having spent nothing and having little trust in the franchise.
There’s nothing wrong with Secure Boot and enabling it can prevent a small subset of attack vectors with no real downsides. That being said, the things Secure Boot does protect against aren’t likely to be an issue for most users but it’s nothing to be afraid of.
Things were better when private servers had actual mods and admins, they acted more like pubs where you could go see the regulars, actually form a community.
This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation
My knowledge towards battlefield games ends at BF4 but I’m pretty sure people pay to host custom servers, EA refuses to open source it and only supply a handful of third parties with the actual code for them to charge hosting fees.
Needlessly intrusive. Can obviously be circumvented by cheaters anyway, so quite possibly superfluous. Apart from that it protects against the kinds of attacks that typically require physical access to the computer. If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.
I get your pc, “tamper” it, then i install a fake bios that tells you all is well and that your tpm and secureboot and whatever else bullcrap they invent is still happy.
A USB keylogger is not detectable by the computer, not in firmware nor operating system. It passively sniffs the traffic between the USB keyboard and the computer, to be dumped out later.
I recently had an rfid scanner immediately rma-d back that had just been returned to us. The new issue was caused by a setting and not by a defect. I asked our IT/help desk if it WAS a setting that could be changed
“I don’t know. I get the thing, I check these settings, I check those settings, that’s all I know”
😑😑😑
So me and another person are out of our equipment for another couple weeks while the scanner is sent back for “repairs” and the repair people will go “😑 tap tap tap idiots”
(Edit: I know it’s a setting because I talked with the other person who uses it and I explained the issue and he let me know it is something he changes)
And Microsoft is shutting out most third parties in the near future because of Crowdstrike, so Linux likely won't be supporting Secure Boot in the future, even if someone did want to enable it for some odd reason.
Microsoft’s kicking third parties out of the kernel because of crowdstrike. Secure boot is a completely different thing Microsoft can’t kick people out of.
Do you have any advice for someone that dual boots SteamOS and Windows 10 on a Steam Deck?
I’ve heard online that since SteamOS manually signs keys or something, that if any changes happen to the kernel that later need to be updated by SteamOS, I’d need to re-sign the keys or whatever. Idk I’m not well versed in any of this
I’ve heard it’s as easy as downloading the M$ keys to enable Secure Boot, but I also don’t want to brick my Deck.
Windows 10 support is ending soon so there’s no reason to have it on your steam deck. Steam will stop supporting it sooner after Microsoft does, just like steam does with Apples operating system.
You never made that point. Stop moving the goal posts.
Do we have any evidence that Steam will not supported anything Windows 10 related, given that commercial licenses are ending and many people are shifting to enterprise licenses?
And it’s not like Steam hasn’t already been doing this. People have used enterprise licenses for legit and nefarious purposes for years. I doubt they’d change anything in October. They aren’t owned by M$
(1) Yeah, well the secure boot keys needed for Linux distributions expire in September (tomshardware.com/…/microsoft-signing-key-required…), so that seems like a sustainable solution, sure buddy. (3) What’s your income? What region of the world do you live in and what hardware is available to you? I’m still using an am4 platform PC as my daily driver because I can’t burn money. One of my buddies has an AM3 PC. Many people use modified surplus office PCs (especially in developing nations like South America or SEA), which don’t have secure boot as an option. Check your privilege, and maybe donate some of your spare hardware to those who need it, if you want to make this “a non issue” for everyone. (4) Yeah. I own my hardware, I configure my software. I gut Windows like a fish and keep it on a leash for these games, and use Linux for my work and for the games that respect the ecosystem.
New keys have already been released and you can always just create and enroll your own damn keys. This is sensationalist nonsense.
“Check my privilege” over secure boot? Calm down, Karen.
I think gaming on PC is going to get interesting in the coming decade as Microsoft kicks third parties out of the kernel (thanks crowdstrike!) and more and more people just stop putting up with windows. Enterprise in the US is hooked but everyone else? Na, they are gonna drop it.
Edit: these are listed as 1,3,and 4 in my post in voyager but lemmy shows 123. Interesting.
On the list thing, it seems that adding numbers with periods in a list seems to auto configure it to ascending numbers. That’s why I used (1) (3) (4). Weird, but I guess that’s the work around.
Enrolling your keys doesn’t work btw, because battlefield checks which keys you enroll, only accepting the default MS keys. Also on the hardware front, it is a big problem for gamers on a sub-300 USD budget these days - the best deals are on legacy hardware or surplus office equipment, mainly AM3-AM4 era.
The number list is how markdown works. You can enter all 1’s and it will automatically create ordered list.
Handy when you may need to edit list items, as you dont need to renumber even in plain text.
Markdown spec should allow for explicit number by using a bracket ‘)’ instead of a dot, but it may not work everywhere.
Let’s give it a go
<span style="color:#323232;">3) start from 3
</span><span style="color:#323232;">1. Then
</span><span style="color:#323232;">1. Continue
</span>
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