Pretty hilarious if after years of being the scourge of Linux and FOSS advocates, complaining how they could never leave Windows because they need it to play, gamers become our greatest allies, switching in droves to get more out of their hardware and games.
Really, this isn’t entirely new, I remember some games were known to run better on Wine than Windows years ago already (Soldier of Fortune comes to mind).
Is that something that can be tweaked on the Windows side? Because if you can’t mess with it on windows, one may argue that the comparison is valid because Linux allows you to tweak those settings
They are supposed to have the same settings, the Linux ones are just wrong and using more power than told It’s supposed to be capped to 17 but pulling over 20 vs 16 on windows. That’s a lot more lower resulting in higher fps but lower battery life.
Cyber dopamine himself says he’s not a benchmark guy as well.
I like him a lot, he’s really passionate and a positive breath of fresh air online, but the guy is surely stoned nearly 100% of the time. No way I’m taking his technical tests at face value.
60-80% better frames on Bazzite for space marine 2 was just too much to not be an error.
Imagine you would save all YouTube videos on your hard drive. You don’t have enough space for that (and time to download anyway). So the next best thing is to just stream those videos and parts you actually watch.
And this is kind of how this game works; it will only deliver those parts and download in the background (which is called streaming) what you currently visit and need. Because you don’t have enough space on your drive.
mbtrhcs wasn't saying that you specifically don't have a big enough hard drive, they're saying that MS Flight Simulator is simply too big of a game to completely store on a player's computer.
MS Flight Simulator has a fairly accurate 3D model of the entire earth. Like, the whole thing. So it's constantly downloading the parts that the player is currently in, and deleting the parts that they are not in.
I hope there is a manual download function for your favorite areas to play them offline, that do not get deleted over time. Kind of how maps on your phone work, just with lot more requirements.
Live information from the earth like weather and other data. If its raining in your city, then it will be raining in the game at this place too. Plus the game does not have all other data anyway, because entire earth is too big for your drive.
My first reply said it was streaming high-res data from the cloud. Considering it’s a flight simulator advertising to cover the entire world, most people would intuit that would include textures and 3d models.
I’m not going to sit here and argue with you, have a nice day.
My first reply said it was streaming high-res data from the cloud.
Your first reply also stated that it needed 180mbps to stream weather data.
Considering it’s a flight simulator advertising to cover the entire world, most people would intuit that would include textures and 3d models.
You can fit the entire world’s texture and 3d models on a super small file. The file size is entirely dependent on the level of detail of those textures and models. Hence the MS Paint analogy.
I appreciate you not arguing anymore, at least you know when to quit.
Then I have no idea what reply you were referring to. Your first reply to me was a snarky one about digital representation of the Earth. Maybe check usernames next time.
And your point about fitting the entire world’s albedo, normal, roughness, specular, height, etc etc textures as well as high-fidelity 3D models is laughably false.
It would be, had I made such a comment. But I didn’t. You just pulled that out of your ass. I made a comment about storing “The Earth” on your local machine.
you are literally the only person confused about this.
Confused because people like you are making me that way.
It’s not weather, it’s terrain and textures. It’s a high resolution stream of where you are flying over so you don’t need to keep the earth on your PC. The base install is supposed to be only ~30GB data, that’s not enough to see your house.
It’s dumb. I’d much rather have a 500GB install. They might as well just make the game a streaming service. It also ensures an early death for the game and no functionality without an internet connection.
I don’t think requiring online functionality is the death knell of a game in the year 2024. Personally, I’m excited. Their servers were so damn slow to download on initial install and I hated MSFS2020 taking up a quarter of my game drive.
I 100% disagree. Any game that requires connection to a remote server for single player functionality is dead to me. And any suggestion otherwise I take personal offense to.
This makes your local game dependent on someone else’s server. That someone else, at any time, can shut down that server with zero consequences. They can change the terms of the deal, with zero consequences. Their servers may unintentionally go down or experience other technical issues, depriving you of the product you paid for, with zero consequences. Also you simply cannot use it away from an internet connection.
You are at the mercy of the provider, who has absolutely no legal obligations to you.
Their servers were so damn slow to download on initial install
And you can’t see why that would be a massive problem while trying to livestream your game from their server?
Only the installs were slow. Terrain streaming worked just fine right from the start (I played it from day one) - and once it’s cached on your machine, they can shut down the servers all they want, it’s still on your machine.
More than that, actually. I measured well over 250 over large cities. Others have reported more than 300.
That’s not how cache works.
In this case, it does. The cache for this simulator is a disk cache - and it’s completely configurable. You can manually designate its size and which parts of the world it’ll permanently contain. There’s also a default rolling cache (also on SSD - this program doesn’t even support hard drives), which does get overwritten over time.
The CDN to download the initial files were slow, the in game streaming was fine.
Yes, ownership sucks these days, but I don’t know how they’d technically pull this off as well without using a remote server. As a philosophy, if we’re purchasing games the only real choice is GoG, anything else ends up with us locked into some server-based licensing system.
FS 2020 had an offline mode. I don’t see why this one wouldn’t have one as well. It’s either using procedurally generated or cached data.
You can not get the same visual fidelity and low latency with game streaming. I’ve tried nearly every service there is (going as far back as OnLive - remember that one?) and they are all extremely subpar, including Microsoft’s own game streaming service.
FS 2020 is available for streaming, by the way, and FS 2024 is likely going to be as well. You’re only getting the console version though. Officially, the resolution is “up to” 1080p, but due to extremely heavy compression, it looks far worse than that. It’s comparable to 720p at best, which means that nearly all fine detail is lost behind huge compression artifacts. On anything larger than a smartphone screen, it looks horrible. That’s on top of connection issues and waiting times that are still plaguing this service.
But…that’s what you’re doing? Streaming the game at 180mbps…
No. Map and weather data is being streamed, cached on your SSD and then the game engine loads it from there into RAM and uses it in combination with other locally stored data and locally performed physics calculation to render the game on your machine. You get an uncompressed, high quality image and low-latency input, freshly baked by your graphics card for your eyes only. At 1080p and 60 fps, that’s already 2.98 Gbit/s per second generated by your GPU and sent to the screen as is. At 1440p, we are at 5.31 Gbit/s and at 4K, 11.94 Gbit/s. DisplayPort can handle up to 20 Gbit/s per lane and use up to four lanes, by the way.
Xbox Cloud Streaming only uses up to 20 Mbit/s (and that’s very optimistic). At the advertised 1080p, this means that only 6.7% as much data as generated on the server is reaching your screen.
The problem with game streaming is that in order to limit latency, they have to compress the image and send it very quickly, 60 times per second, which means they have just 16.7 milliseconds for each frame - and do this for potentially millions of users at the same time. This cannot physically be done at any decent level of quality. It is far easier to send much larger amounts of map data that is not time critical: It doesn’t matter if it’s even a few seconds late on your machine, since the game engine will render something with the data it already has. At worst, you get some building or terrain pop-in, whereas if even a single of the 60 frames required for direct game streaming is being dropped, you’ll immediately notice it as stuttering.
That sounds like a great reason not to buy this game.
If you don’t have the hardware to play this game locally, then I would not recommend it. If you have - and a base Xbox Series S is enough for a reasonable experience, which costs just 300 bucks new or about half as much used - then there is no reason for using the streaming service, unless you absolutely have to play it on your phone at work.
I can agree but with two conditions. Benchmarks must always be done in native resolution. Hardware capability / system requirement must not take any upscaling into account.
For example, if a studio publishes the requirements for playing at 1080p, 60 FPS, High RT, it must be native 1080p and not 1080p with upscaling.
Benchmarks should not be disconnected from actual games. If games don’t play in native resolution, then benchmarks should not be limited to native resolution. they should check both native and upscaled rendering, and rate the quality of the upscaling.
RT + DLSS is less cheating than most other graphics effects, especially any other approach to lighting. The entire graphics pipeline for anything 3D has always been fake shortcut stacked on top of fake shortcut.
In my opinion this the unique milestone linux has to achive to be declared as a total winner vs windows, in the near future I would like to see non tech industries using linux instead of microsoft spyware.
Deciding to send to the landfill every PC sold after 2018 is a decision that they saw analyzing only numbers from big American corporations. “Anyway they lease the computers and have a refresh every 3-5 years”
But the rest of the world?
Here in Italy I still see people on Windows 7
When I traveled in southeast Asia I saw people using windows XP
Or Brazil, where the import taxes make a windows 11 compatible PC ultra expensive
Regular people and small businesses , especially outside the USA won’t simply buy a new PC just because Microsoft and Intel needed the line to go up.
Tech-idiot, here, but Linux-curious and running Windows 10 with an ardent refusal to change it to 11.
I know there are a ton of different versions of Linux, ‘Ubuntu’ and such, but I don’t know jack about any of them… which would you recommend that’s best suited to someone who’s only ever used Windows? Looking for the most idiot-proof option. Gaming and office style work are primary use.
Emphasis on the idiot proof. I am really anxious about switching from fear of jacking up my computer, but am so sick of Window’s bullshit… probably as good a time to dive in now than any point going forward.
Tbh it actually doesn’t matter that much. There’s like a million different distros, but really there’s like 3 base distros (yes Linux nuts, this is an oversimplification) of Debian, Fedora, and Arch. Ubuntu has gotten a lot of hate lately for their choice of forced package manager, but it’s probably fine. It’ll matter way more to you what desktop environment you select. I’d recommend looking into Bazzite for gaming. It’s based on fedora and it has a bunch of gaming stuff built in, but also does great for anything else. It’s made to be the steamOS for anything not a steam deck. Go with KDE for a windows-like desktop experience.
The three base distros mentioned are ones that most other distros use as their base
E.g.
Debian -> Ubuntu, Mint, Pop_OS!
Fedora -> Bazzite, Nobara
Arch -> EndeavourOS, Manjaro, CachyOS
While you can customize the base distros however you want, think of these derivate distros as various prebuilts.
Most distros come with a package manager that allows you to download (software) packages from a centralized repository. Similar to say Microsoft store. Ubuntu was dissed for Canonical (the creators of Ubuntu) forcing their own package manager into it, which had various issues, while there were already well established package managers available.
Desktop Environment (DE) is what you see on your screen. Various elements control how the task bar or app bar behaves or what it looks like, what windows are stylized like, and how they behave etc. For someone coming from Windows, Linux Mint’s Cinnamon DE or any distro with KDE will likely be most familiar experience, while those switching from MacOS, Gnome DE as the Fedora default is very similar.
Bazzite is a gaming focused distro based on Fedora.
Arch. Use cachyOS which is arch it’s just what steamOS is but with a focus on also being a normal desktop on top.
Seriously do not understand why people push bazzite when it’s just a more complicated less supported option compared to cachyOS. For the exact same work load.
You keep saying this, but then do not elaborate very much. A lot of your comments in this thread have been something about Bazzite being bad/complicated/slow. Bazzite is not necessarily more complicated, it’s actually a lot less complicated in most ways and is difficult to break by design, as are other immutable distros. This is precisely why it is pushed to new Linux users. It’s a good starting point to have something that just works and not have to worry about much. I think a lot of long time Linux users are used to having full control over every piece of the OS, and have (like yourself) come to expect all distros to work that way. That’s fine and I totally understand that, but you should also consider that those who have not built the same habits from non-immutable might prefer a more hands off approach. I’ve used Linux for almost two decades, and I daily drive immutable because it’s so stable. I’m able to scratch the itch of wanting to mess with stuff by using distrobox, and if I’m really messing around, just using rpm-ostree. Sure, it’s different than normal distros, and it’s not for everyone, but it got my partner to use Linux on their own without any issues.
It’s okay to suggest other options for sure, but don’t get snarky when people are suggesting what works for them. The main benefit of Linux is that you have a choice in the first place, and you aren’t going to be stuck with whatever distro you’re using if they decide to do something catastrophic.
For gamers who are newcomes to Linux, Ubuntu (or Debian) should be a hard pass. Linux gaming is advancing too fast for the 2-3 year gap between LTS versions to not matter, and trying to work around the stable (outdated) packages is typically what ends up breaking installs.
I actually just switched to Ubuntu 25.10 from Bazzite. Can you recommend me other (non atomic) distros that play nice with both secure boot and nvidia drivers? I don’t think fedora does. I’m not interested in managing keys and certs for my drivers, and do occasionally play those anti-cheat games on a dedicated windows partition. I’d rather not toggle secure boot each time I reboot.
Did you set up secure boot during setup of Bazzite, out of curiosity? It has the ability to function with it and should prompt you if I remember correctly.
How fedora still struggles to keep up sometimes which has always confused me why people suggest a bazzite. Not to mention how many community tools and communities that are starting to support Linux. Only support Arch and don’t support anything else.
Which means you now have new users trying to figure out how to f*** to compile or install software outside of their package managers without a flat pack or anything. Just to use the same community tools that they used on Windows.
While it’s just in the aur because it’s supported. Seriously cachyOS is such a easier solution for new comers.
People suggest Bazzite because it just works and is difficult to break or otherwise have things to wrong. I’m not sure what you mean by “struggles to keep up”, can you explain?
Also, you know about rpm-ostree and distrobox, right?
The problem with bazzite is it’s just an objectively worse option then cachyOS if your using your PC exclusively to game.
Immutable distros and the lack of aur can be such a massive pain in the fucking ass if you play games with a lot of community tools.
Almost exclusively every community tool I’ve ever seen for any game only ever supports Arch and never anything else. So while you can use other things, it sucks to have to compile it all yourself every f****** update.
I’ve never had an issue with any community tools on an immutable distro. Especially distros that have distrobox, but for the most part, the community tools I’ve needed use lutris or flatpak and do not require compilation. Do you have an example of some of the tools you’re talking about? I’m not necessarily doubting you, I just haven’t encountered it before. You can also still install things (at the cost of image space) with rpm-ostree.
Listen, there’s dozens of Linux users on Void, Slackware and Gentoo. Dozens! Especially the ones wanting to run the latest games. Can’t just leave all of them out.
As someone who went through something similar, Linux Mint is a really great option. Based off Ubuntu so lots of software, cinnamon desktop environment for a windows familiar feel and layout, and stable releases.
For gaming, you can’t go wrong with Bazzite. It’s meant for gaming to mostly just work out of the box, so you likely won’t need to tinker with anything.
It’s that tinkering that introduces stability risks. Adding third-party package repositories and trying to install newer software on top of older LTS distros is what tends to end up breaking them.
It’s really easy and quick to install a distro so you can just test them out. Get three you think you’d like, try em out, you’ll probably like all of them, but you get to pick your fav.
There is no “best”, just “best for you”.
If gaming is your focus and you just want to go into Linux without research, I’d start with Ubuntu or Mint for a couple weeks. If you’re liking it, check out some others, but don’t be surprised if you go back to Ubuntu or Mint simply because you found them easy and working just fine. There’s no wrong choice, just lots of good ones. It is all up to how you like it with no anxiety of making a bad choice 😁
If you want a windows-like experience, Linux Mint is hard to beat. It will feel very familiar.
If you enjoy gaming (which I’m assuming you do, considering the article) then maybe Bazzite would be a good option. It comes with GPU drivers (which have historically been a giant pain in the ass for Linux) ready to go. It’s an immutable distro, which is… Contentious in the Linux community. It means you won’t be able to accidentally break your OS, but it also means it isn’t as customizable. The newer users appreciate the safety net, but the experienced power users see it as overly restrictive coddling.
It also pisses off new users frequently when they start to try to use any community tools for most games… Bazzite is a fucking nightmare for gaming because of it. It’s God damn funny counter productive issue.
The steam deck has the same problem to be fair.
Also historically is right, installing drivers has been trivial on every distro I can possibly think of for the last fuck, almost 20 years.
There have been one click gui installers for fucking ever at this point. Lol
Depends on how much you care about security. Some distros are still very focused on “I operate my desktop in my locked house and don’t expect police to knock” use cases. If you’re chill with typing in a disk encryption password on boot you can turn that on, but getting a seamless secure boot+tpm decrypt is pretty challenging.
And then if that is what you want, people will of course happily tell you what a stupid insecure idea that is because Intel or Microsoft or something.
To answer your question broadly: I found arch/endeavor to be easier to secure and have a single set of solid instructions. OpenSuse and fedora both had multiple mediocre and deeply iffy sets of instructions, but for basic setup and use they are easier to use. OpenSuse bricked several times, fedora was far far far more stable for me but you’ll hear countless people with the opposite story. I don’t care for Ubuntu.
The bigger impact past setup is the desktop environment. You pick gnome (Ubuntu, fedora, endeavor) if you hate yourself and think some random dev 5000 miles away can make decisions for you better than you can. You pick KDE (fedora, suse, endeavor) if you want a nice windowsesque experience. You pick cosmic (popos, derived from Ubuntu) if you want to try something new that might suck. There are others but they are mostly if you want a super cut down experience.
People have recommended mint for new users for at least a decade or so. Please just don’t. It’s super out of date.
I found Pop!_OS worked out of the box fine on my new desktop.
Mint had problems, but worked fine on my older computers.
Back up any important software (like, on a separate drive or online). Get a couple flash drives. Try out mint, popos, bazzite. They’re all free so it doesn’t matter that much if you don’t like one.
I don’t recommend trying to dual boot on one drive because windows is a rude room mate.
If you need a computer that’s reliable for office work, use Debian, if you want a more console-like experience and less likely it’ll break your computer, use bazzite, if you want to be able to use new hardware, the moment it’s released to the market have the best compatibility with all games and software and the widest range of supported hardware and software use cachyOS.
Debian is stable because it updates so slowly. It makes sure everything works under pain of death. So having compatibility issues, new hardware being supported, having to do weird little things for a less than popular application is pretty normal. But if it works, it’s literally the most stable thing you can possibly put on a computer.
Bazzite it’s kind of your middle ground. It’s up to date in 95% of all cases while support. Basically everything but it is immutable which makes it hard to tinker with or change things should you need to. Which is both a benefit and a downside. Does mean you’re less likely to break your computer while you’re learning on the flip side.
CachyOS is based on Arch the most up-to-date core that you can have for any computer. It’s what steamos is based on in many other bleeding edge options. It has a focus on hardware support, gaming support, software support doing so as up-to-date as physically possible. If you need something to be supported, it’s more likely to be supported here than anywhere else. While the old joke Arch likes to randomly break itself isn’t untrue. It’s also about 15 years out of date in how true it is. Modern Arch rarely ever breaks and when it does so will every other option barring debian almost exclusively.
Realistically speaking, when it comes to actually installing and using any of these options day-to-day, they’re completely identical. Typically, if you have the ability to rub two brain cells together, read and have even a 5th grade level of critical thinking skills. If you’re planning on gaming as your main use of your computer not work, not art, just gaming, just use cachyOS.
There is one last thing to be aware of when choosing any option. If it’s based on Arch, it’s going to have the best documentation in the most user-friendly possible way. Arch has the single. Best, wiki there is. Which for a new user can be a godsend if you actually know how to read.
I think maybe take a look at the performance and power seen during the video, things don’t seem to line up correctly.
That said, Linux is generally slightly more performant in handheld devices and I think that will continue to hold true despite Microsoft’s recent opts.
I know people complain about Nvidia and Linux but one of the best parts of my experience with it was never having to deal with GFE. Just a bunch of project managers trying to make themselves useful by shovelling needless slop into your GPU driver.
I used to be kbm exclusive but there have been some pretty good controller improvements made over the years, things like hotkey layers in Skyrim UI mods or the final fantasy MMO giving dozens of unique hotkeys on a controller, and new hardware with back buttons and shoulder buttons that keep both thumbs on the thumbsticks. Can’t beat mouse for precision, but there are tradeoffs for that.
Steam Controller and Steam Deck converted me to controller. Trackpads and touch activated gyroscope are complete game changers. I still can’t play first person games with a thumbstick though.
I find it very difficult to believe that you don’t like a single Spielberg movie, just on a quantity level. He’s made so many at this point, at least one must tickle your fancy.
I made the switch almost a year ago when they started announcing all the spyware coming to win11. The distro you choose matters a LOT. After several that were buggy and frustrating I landed on Garuda dragonized. Setup was easy with their assistant finding the drivers I needed and I have yet to have any system breaking updates. Better track record than windows TBH. Performance is great, and steam integrates so well with proton that my experience is honestly just as good as windows native. I should probably go make a donation to the Garuda project, now that I’m thinking about it.
Most accessories are plug and play these days, so Nvidia may have actually been the only one. Not all distros can detect the best Nvidia drivers automatically, and finding and installing the right one can be a pain. Which makes it borderline impossible for a low tech person looking to make the jump to Linux.
Notably, it’s also entirely possible that the issues I dealt with were more to do with poor Wayland implementations than drivers. Either way, Garuda has worked beautifully and easily.
There were huge numbers of people that wouldn’t move to Linux because it didn’t support all of their games. Now it does, and lots of people are moving.
There are lots of people that won’t move to Linux because they have a random bit of hardware that’s not supported, or a highly-specific bit of software they need to do their job that only runs on Windows. The manufacturers wouldn’t support Linux because not enough people used it. Ah, but now we have all the gamers, so there are quite a lot of people using it.
Each domino that falls encourages the rest. Steam Linux users are more than 3x Steam macOS users, and we’re not that far from overtaking it for general desktop usage. In some regions, that’s already the case, and while the Windows 10 exodus can move to Linux easily, they’d need to buy new hardware fo use the Mac operating system. Not many companies would question providing Apple support; once Linux has a comparable share, it would be foolish to leave that out of consideration as well.
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