IWantToFuckSpez, (edited ) angielski A monopoly is a monopoly. Just because Steam is a good store today doesn’t mean they deserve to hold a monopoly over the pc gaming market. So what happens when Valve has crushed every competitor? Gamers and devs have nowhere to go if Steam turns to shit. Eventually there will be a change of guards at Valve’s C-suite when Gaben retires or is dead. There is a good chance that those new execs will hollow out Steam and extract all the value out of it for their own benefit by screwing over the customers and developers. And they can get away with that if there is no competition. Competition is what keeps Valve in check.
nanoUFO, angielski Ubisoft, Epic etc… have done nothing to make the market better or make it more healthy. Epic is even more anti competitive than it’s competition.
IWantToFuckSpez, (edited ) angielski Doesn’t matter. It’s still competition. They motivate Valve to create a better store and keep it that way. Since that is Valve’s unique selling point and what distinguishes them from the competition. Therefore I believe devs should make their games available on every storefront. Not just the best one, to give customers a choice.
nanoUFO, angielski Steam was great before epic and has been adding killer features since before egs came along. EGS tactics to win over steam users is to be anti competitive…
IWantToFuckSpez, angielski Ok but competition is always good for the customer even when the competitors are shit.
CileTheSane, angielski Ok, but as a consumer I’m fine with the shit competitor existing but I’m not going to use it.
NightOwl, (edited ) angielski Like Walmart coming into a town to compete with the stores already there and then putting them out of business? Then moving onto the next town to compete again?
nanoUFO, (edited ) angielski competition is good when the rest of the competition is able or good. EGS is so shit it has to buy exclusives and give out free games and it still doesn’t work. There has to be some equality in quality to have any chance of making steam better otherwise they just exist to make anti competitive moves, what is steam supposed to do? Also pay for exclusives?
Kolanaki, (edited ) angielski If that was true, then why complain about Valve’s “monopoly?” It has competition. The competition is just shit.
leftzero, angielski When their launcher is literal malware or they engage in anti-consumer practices like exclusives, no, they are not good for the customer.
(Not that any publicly traded company can be good for the customer, mind; by definition they can only be good for the shareholders; any benefit they might accidentally provide to the customer or to society is an inefficiency that will eventually be corrected through enshittification. The only reason Valve isn’t entirely harmful is that they aren’t publicly traded yet.)
XLRV, angielski Tell that to Epic.
stillwater, angielski Doesn’t matter. It’s still competition. They motivate Valve to create a better store and keep it that way.
Explain. What specific examples can you point to regarding the UPlay store that forced Steam to improve something?
Kolanaki, (edited ) angielski The only thing Valve has done with Steam that apparently is anti-competitive, is actually having a decent product with good features and no one else is capable of actually delivering parity with it to be a viable competitor.
A natural monopoly is a far cry from one built through anti-competitive practices, and easily toppled by competent competitors.
Perhaps if Valve’s competition was competent, there would be better options.
IWantToFuckSpez, angielski True. But Google became the number one search engine by creating a better product and basically got a natural monopoly. And now look what kind of monster the company has become.
Just because Steam is a good store today doesn’t mean it will stay that way in the future. Therefore I rather not see Steam be the only game store left in the pc gaming space.
CileTheSane, angielski But Epic is a shitty store today. I’m not going to use it out of fear the Steam might become a shitty store tomorrow.
IWantToFuckSpez, angielski That’s fine, neither do I. Because as a customer we have a choice. But we only have that choice if devs make their games available on all stores.
CileTheSane, angielski Epic has in the past declined hosting games that don’t agree to exclusivity, so it’s not always the dev’s choice.
Kbin_space_program, (edited ) angielski Well no. Google used to steal results from other search engines initially.v And then suppressed search results for competing products for at least the last 20 years.
rambaroo, angielski deleted_by_moderator
Kolanaki, (edited ) angielski Then get mad at the weak-ass competition. Start a fire under their asses to make something that is actually just as good, if not better.
Punishing the one good product for being good is just gonna lead to there being no good products and only shitty ones just as much as your slippery-slope scenario. 🤦♂️
conciselyverbose, angielski But they haven't crushed any other competitor through any mechanism but having a dramatically better product.
They don't force you to be exclusive to be on steam. They don't force you to implement any of their Steam stuff. They are very permissive unless you do shit that potentially exposes them to liability down the road, like the NFT nonsense.
And they let you generate keys for literally free to sell on other stores.
All their stuff companies use is because it's things customers value.
Kbin_space_program, (edited ) angielski When they started, they did used to force you to use products edit: aside from their own games(fair cop), some 3rd party games like Lost Planet also required it.
Certain games, and not just valve games, you'd buy in a store and the disc would force you to install and create a steam account to play the single player offline game.
conciselyverbose, angielski They're a distribution mechanism. If you buy a Steam game you need Steam. Allowing developers to require Steam to play their game is not anticompetitive or in any way unethical.
They didn't force any developer who wanted to sell games on Steam to only sell games on Steam. That's what would be anticompetitive and abusing their market position. Games choosing to only distribute through Steam because there's no other storefront that wouldn't be a worse value if it was free isn't Steam doing something wrong.
Kbin_space_program, (edited ) angielski My point is that they did initially to force usage. I'll edit the post with the game name when I get home.
Edit: Lost Planet. It had a disc but required you to sign up for and use steam to play it.
conciselyverbose, angielski A publisher only distributing through Steam when it does things others don't isn't forcing usage.
Forcing usage is requiring developers to only distribute through Steam.
There is no scenario where the first is wrong, and there is no scenario where the second is OK.
Zorque, angielski Looks like it was a console exclusive before it released on Steam, if you're talking about Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (which is the only one I can find by that name).
Do you have more information about the release? Or perhaps it's a different game?
stillwater, (edited ) angielski They didn’t force any game to use Steamworks, developers and publishers chose to use it because it offered a lot of good middleware. And of course it requires Steam to use Steamworks.
This is a very soft idea of “force”.
TheBlue22, angielski Steam doesn’t have a monopoly, other platforms are just shit.
Missing features, badly made features, fucking spyware, some barely working at all (I am looking at you, ubisoft)
Perhaps if the other platforms tried a little bit, they would actually be a competition.
Gamey, angielski The position makes a monopoly, not the reason…
TheBlue22, angielski A monopoly is defined as a single seller or producer that excludes competition from providing the same product
By this definition, Epic games would be a monopoly with its exclusives.
Gamey, angielski That’s not at all what a monopoly is, it’s simply the absence of competition aka the market position. You don’t have to engage in anti-competitive practices to havw a monopoly, I don’t get why that’s so hard to understand for many here…
MomoTimeToDie, angielski deleted_by_author
Gamey, angielski Other games aren’t a competition for a platform like Steam, that’s a different market. Steam has a monopoly because they have a extremely dominant position without real competition in their sector, they don’t have to engage in anti-competitive practices against games outside of steam to have that…
MomoTimeToDie, angielski deleted_by_author
Gamey, angielski Fuck, this is so stupid it’s hard to even responde… Steam has a monopoly on game distribution but Minecraft isn’t a Steam competitor just like Fortnite isn’t a Play Store competitor! I am done with this thread, it’s frustrating to try and explain so many people such basic things if they don’t want to hear them!
punseye, angielski that’s opposite of unpopular opinion lol
that being said, a healthy competition is still necessary as we don’t know what valve would become post gabe
echo64, angielski This is literally the most popular opinion.
GreenMario, angielski Yeah. Dusk is an amazing game and the creator is talented as fuck but this is “I like oxygen” levels of unpopular opinion lol
reddig33, angielski Oh, I dunno. Everyone seems to bitch about Apple not wanting to give any leeway to Epic on the App Store. Personally I find Epic ridiculously hypocritical, so I say let them eat dirt.
echo64, angielski This is also the most popular opinion.
Gamey, angielski Everyone likes to shit on Epic so it’s probably not a very unpopular opinion ether but there is a big difference between the App and Play store and Steam, only one of them doesn’t use anti-competiive practices and the other two also force their payment provider which is rather shitty!
rambaroo, angielski Then why are must of the comments arguing against it?
echo64, angielski This post has more upvotes than most of the posts on this server.
RagingRobot, angielski You just claimed 2 companies are monopolies of the same industry lol but I agree larger companies are not the way to go
pfannkuchen_gesicht, (edited ) angielski They didn’t. They claimed Valve has a monopoly while Epic is working towards having one in the future.
z0rb, angielski Valve supports linux gaming! The Steam Deck is awesome and with an even better configuration (or the rumored valve's own new steam machine) this is only getting better. So, only Valve gets my money.
Aurenkin, angielski I buy games pretty much exclusively on Steam because of the Linux support (my gaming PC runs Linux only).
Hopefully more places follow suit because I believe competition is a good thing but for now it’s Steam all the way pretty much apart from Starsector and until recently Dwarf Fortress.
nicman24, angielski I d trust a privately own company with Gabe as the head than the asshats that proliferated micro transactions and shitty always online DRM for single player games.
TenderfootGungi, angielski Just like I am happy with Apple and Google taking a cut and running their app stores. If these big companies could make their own store, they would. Apple would lose a cut, but that does not affect me as a consumer. What does affect me is a gate keeper keeping terrible practices in check. Making it nearly impossible to cancel a subscription instead of having a handy menu to just turn it off. Having places to put credit cards that are not secure. Collecting personal data nonstop. Etc etc.
Dodaj komentarz