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FlashMobOfOne, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

I heard the new Game of Thrones game is using LLM’s to generate some of its content. Pisses me off.

nutsack,

lots of big companies are using them to generate code. i agree with what I think is your point of view, but where do you draw the line

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t buy a lot of the big company games anyway, but if this becomes commonplace, what’ll happen is I’ll buy my big-company games second-hand so the benefit to the perpetrators is lessened.

Catoblepas,

If that’s true that takes my interest in it into the negatives. ASOIAF has about a million moving parts and very distinct characters with complex backstories, there’s not even a small chance an LLM could come close to imitating that.

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

It’s just fan speculation at this point, but yeah. I’ll be thinking about it before I buy, if I do.

Rooster326, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

What exactly is “Used AI” though?

Most developers are going to have some form of auto complete - AI powered or not.

Is it just assets I assume?

echodot,

Autocomplete isn’t AI. It’s string recognition which predates AI by about 35 years.

T9 predictive texting definitely didn’t contain AI, but was absolutely a thing for a really long time.

Rooster326,

There are 2 versions these days.

One powered by AI that can complete the rest of your function, and regular that is typically only the word you are working on.

froufox,

i think it’s impossible totally exclude ai from a developing process nowadays (you googled something? you use ai. etc.), but not having generated images/assets/texts is realistic

rtxn, (edited )

auto complete

It’s called lexical analysis or lexical tokenization. It existed long before LLMs (as long as high-level programming languages have, since lexical analysis of the source is the first step of compilation), it doesn’t rely on stolen code, and doesn’t consume a small village’s worth of electricity. Superficial parallels with chatbots do not make it AI – it’s a fucking algorithm.

Besides, there is a world of difference between asking a clanker to spit out a Python function that multiplies two matrices, and putting the knock-off Shadowheart from TEMU in a million-dollar game.

spicehoarder,

I assume it refers to assets and mechanics that actively involve AI. If you’re using Copilot to finish your switch case, I don’t think that would count.

fonix232,

And more and more engineers use genAI to generate code. Hell, even I do, because it's superb at getting the boilerplate ready from standard definitions, allowing me to focus on the important bits.

LLMs are also pretty great at extrapolating a good working document from basic requirements.

They're really just a quite knowledgeable but inexperienced intern, and any software engineer that refuses to utilise them to some extent will be left behind - just like those who refused to move to IDEs with syntax highlighting, autocomplete and other helper tools.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

you’re gonna have the vim users grabbing their pitchforks if you don’t watch it.

kazerniel, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"
@kazerniel@lemmy.world avatar

I’m glad for those disclosures (because I’m not touching AI games), but tons of devs don’t disclose their AI usage, even in obvious cases, leaving us to guessing :/

Bassman1805,

There’s also the massive gray area of “what do YOU define AI to mean?”

There are legitimate use cases for machine learning and neural networks besides LLMs and “art” vomit. Like, what AI used to mean to gamers: how the computer plays the game against you. That probably isn’t going to upset many people.

(IIRC, Steam’s AI disclosure is specifically about AI-generated graphics and music so that ambiguity might be settled here)

CatsPajamas,

Not voices, too?

AgentRocket,

I’d say it depends on whether or not the voice actor whose voice the AI is imitating has agreed and is fairly compensated.

I’m imagining a game, where instead of predefined dialog choices, you talk into your microphone and the game’s AI generates the NPCs answer.

who, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

“Calls to scrap” the disclosures make it sound like a societal movement, when in fact it’s just two people with obvious bias: Tim Sweeney and some guy who promotes Tim Sweeney’s products on youtube.

I don’t give a flying frog what they think. When I allow someone to sell me something, I like to know what’s in it.

minorkeys, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Consumers have a right to be informed of information relevant to them making purchasing decisions. AI is obviously relevant to the consumer and should be disclosed.

AnarchistArtificer, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Corporations are not our friends, even when they seem friendly, like Steam. However, they can be useful allies, so I’m glad to see this response from Steam.

RampantParanoia2365, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

…what calls? No one is calling for this. One dude said it was unnecessary. That’s not a call, it’s an opinion. He’s not out picketing for the end of fucking AI labels.

_cryptagion,
@_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus avatar

whether he is or isn’t, they saw a chance to create a huge amount of good PR for Valve while doing and spending absolutely nothing. I mean, look at the amount of upvotes this post has. all they had to do is take what appears to be a principled stand.

CatsPajamas, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Man I use AI a lot and I’m not even going to dispute that lol. It’s absolutely true.

mirshafie,

I’mnot even opposed to AI in games. I’d love to see more granulated disclosures, but Steam-style disclosure should be the bare minimum.

ameancow,

Yah the more I use AI the more I can detect the absolute bullshit people on both sides spew.

It’s the most amazingly complicated averaging machine we’ve ever invented. It will take the most interesting source materials, the most unique ideas of other people, the most creative materials, and it will find a way to find the safest, most average common qualities between those things. This isn’t a model problem or input problem, it’s fundamental to how generative AI works.

It helps with searching for things online, it helps create guide plans for taking on new tasks like learning some new skill. It’s far better at teaching how to do something like coding than it is left to just code on its own and you copy and paste. It can certainly do that, but you spend so much time correcting it and fixing it that you do far better learning the code yourself and how it works.

Same with art, the people who are using it to best effect are themselves already artists and they use AI to thumbnail compositions or rough layouts, color tests and such, and then just do the work themselves but faster because they already know roughly what direction they’re going.

But using it to write your scripts, to copy/paste code, to generate works of art… it’s literally just giving you other people’s ideas mashed together and unseasoned.

GeneralEmergency, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Steam already sells enough slop without AI.

But you know for sure the moment Gaben sees all the money from AI games, that shit will be pushed to the max.

Burghler,

You have no idea why Steam dominates the market if you truly think this.

GeneralEmergency,

Aww dude.

Steam was plagued with asset flips for years and refused to do anything about it. Repeatedly saying it was a Unity issue.

Then there’s the slop of shitty “simulator” games

Digital Homicide

Bad Rats

Have we seriously forgotten about Day One: Gary’s Incident

Steam dominates the market because it paid publishers to use them as DRM for physical releases.

ripcord,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, yes, we get it. Everything is bad, nothing is good.

Kage520, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

I actually would kind of like ai in games. Not slop visuals though. What I really would love would be in a VR game, going up to an NPC, and getting a feel for different cultures of the world I’m in through talking. Maybe you have to have a certain type of conversation to find out the plot for a side quest, or talk to a guard at a bar and work your way to find out the shift rotation as he gets drunk or something so you can infiltrate the castle.

I feel like ai could be useful like that…but getting rid of artists in favor of ai slop is just the worst way to implement this AI thing.

Bahnd,
@Bahnd@lemmy.world avatar

Avoiding slopification seems to be the main priority, and you would have to have the AI be incorporated into a game it would have to do something that AI is already passable at, otherwise it wont pass that barrier and will get shunned like the rest of the slop.

For example, you could have an LLM act as a character or have a neural net incorporated into the game-ai like how tool assisted DOTA2 competitions work.

I see three main problems, first is that you would need the hardware to run it locally, which may be a hard sell to some people depending on what the game it is, only online expirenes should endebt themselves to AWS, if its single player, its going to lose a ton of sales there. Two, its really hard to convince audiences electrons have feelings, remember Final Fantasy (2001)? Thats what happened last time someone tried to personify a digital construct, and well… It went swimmingly (Microsofts Tay, does not count). Lastly, impact, would a narrative focused title have the same impact of an AI wrote the script? How would you feel after playing through a title like “Papers, please” and when the credits roll it says “script generated by CoPilot”? I feel like it would ring hollow, the feelings would be cheapened by it…

I would be interested to see how this plays out, but im content to support the titles and studios that do things the traditional way.

Darkness343, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

How would the computer controlled enemies work in a 100% AI free videogame?

MajorasTerribleFate,

I mean, the term “AI” as it’s used in this context refers to output from Large Language Models (or whatever other complex machine learning systems) that scrape the content of the internet and produce images, text, etc. based on the collective artistic/linguistic work of innumerable uncompensated, unaware human contributors.

Algorithms written by programmers that interpret internal variables and react based on that aren’t the kind of “AI” in question.

Darkness343,

How stupid are people to believe that fancy auto complete engines are AI?

daniskarma, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

The thing is that it’s kind of voluntary. Game developers could have use AI to develop the game and if they wouldn’t want to disclose it no one would know.

Unless the use of AI is the very crappy “AI art” that’s easy to notice the rest of uses would be very hard or actually impossible to figure it out to audit the legitimacy of the tag.

And this will end like r/art where the mods deleted a post accusing the artist of using AI when it was not AI and the final mod answer was “change your art style so it doesn’t look like AI”. A brutal witch-hunt in the end.

87Six, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Extremely common Valve W

krakenx, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

Use of AI should be disclosed the same way 3rd party DRM and EULA agreements are. And similarly it should mention some details. People are free to boycott Denuvo if they want, but people are also free to buy it anyways if they want. Disclosure is never a bad thing.

Wilco, do games w Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"

We need laws passed where AI should have to be clearly labeled or the user faces severe fines. Robo calls and AI IVR phone systems should clearly tell you “this is AI”.

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