Also there’s a sneaky little “Support your local artist” on the crying wojak.
Artist/gamedev here, and AI slop does nothing but saturate our spaces with worthless garbage. Feel free to remix my content in any way you want. My game engine is also open source, you can either just use it as it is, or even use some of its parts for your own. But if you think AI is somehow good, then please don’t even touch my content, just ask ChatGPT or watever to make you the same thing based on the same idea I had, but AI.
When I first joined lemmy local AI was pretty popular here. Popular opinion has shifted a lot in the anti-ai direction recently, especially after the recent internet-wide outcry after OpenAI announced that model a few weeks ago. Corporate AI was never liked, but there used to usually be popular comments defending local AI.
It’s probably partially because the last notable advancement in local image gen AI was about 8 months ago now IMO (the flux model release). Also, ‘open source’ ai has become progressively less of a thing, with most models (even ones with released weights that you can run locally) released under restrictive licenses, probably turning away the foss-leaning fediverse population.
I think I have personally realized, since then, that the benefits of from-scratch image generation on society as a whole are almost nonexistent and “it’s fun to play with for a few hours” isn’t enough really justification for the potential harm to artists.
I really don’t have issue with AI, the issue i have is post like these. Real people are getting affect by this AI and losing income due to this, it’s real dick move to mock their anger and frustration.
I’ve been playing Grounded recently. I’ve been finding it pretty fun, even when played solo. Although some aspects were a bit confusing or felt slightly padded (likely due to playing solo). I have also been wanting to get back into monster hunter wilds so I’ll likely try that again soon. It’s been a lot of fun as well but oooh those menus on menus can get overwhelming.
I’ve been very curious about the switch 2 and the price increases that will likely hit the market. I’m slightly afraid they might try to jack up prices on existing games, so I’m debating if I should snag some now or hold off. I’ve wanted to play some of the xenoblades and the newest Mario party!
Because Myasaki has very publically spoken about thinking AI generated stuff is horrible and soulless, and that he’d never use it. Them coming out with a Ghibli filter felt like it was a reaction to that.
Well for one, they didnt come out with a Ghibli filter, they just removed restrictions on imitating art styles and using ghibli style just became a trend.
And honestly who cares what Miyazaki thinks? He’s famously stuck in the past, stubborn and kind of elitist.
I am honestly not informed enough to say whether the whole Ghibli trend grew organically, or whether it came from OAI marketing.
And yeah, Myasaki can be a bit of a dick, but I don’t think he’s wrong here. I worked with both LLM and image generation for some personal projects, and you have to coax it a lot to get anything halfway usable, and even then, it isn’t great. Even stuff that’s heralded as exemplary by the corps behind the trend mostly seems kinda shitty.
Also, even if you like GenAI, most of the stuff that OAI is doing right now feels like desperate attempts to keep the hype train rolling, to justify their frankly ludicrous valuation.
A lot of people care what Miyazaki thinks because he created over a dozen films that are beloved by millions because of their artistry, is well respected in the anime/manga world, and is generally regarded as a master of his artform. People tend to take your words seriously when they have nearly 50 years of experience and success behind them.
The issue with Rowling is more that she started talking out her rear end about something of which she doesn’t have much, if any, understanding. If she gave you advice on writing YA fiction, it’d be worth something. Miyazaki is a visual artist broadly respected for his art, so his opinions on visual art have some weight. If it was about the cultivation of kumquats, I think I’d ask a farmer.
Almost no one knows how SD works. That’s not the point. He’s not contrasting it against some other GenAI concept to compare training cost. He’s looking at it based on the results. You don’t have to know how to build a CPU to compare benchmarks for ones built by someone else.
Except how AI works is pretty crucial to the entire anti-AI argument.
The amount of people that claim AI just collages together pieces of existing “stolen” art and use that as an argument against AI is ridiculous.
And your CPU example isn’t great since you would be comparing CPUs to other CPUs, it would be more apt to talk about someone who doesn’t know how a computer works to demonise computers in general and advocate doing maths by hand instead.
Actually, yeah, that’s a bad metaphor from me. Comparing benchmarks would be comparing AI models.
He’s not comparing benchmarks. He’s comparing results, so it’s more about maybe error rate than processing speed.
I guess it’s like comparing the result of an approximation versus an explicit computation. GenAI makes an approximation of art. It very quickly spits out something that looks a bit like the intended answer. It even gets you close enough to be totally satisfactory for some purposes, in the same way 3 can be a usable approximation of π for some purposes. However, the picture is not the full purpose of creating art. Art is a form of communication, transmitting something from one mind to another using indirect means because telepathy isn’t available. AI is not trying to communicate anything. It’s just an approximation of something someone could say.
Miyazaki is someone with years of experience in creating art so he understands the ‘language’ of art better than some. He has ‘fluency.’ AI images hit the uncanny valley for artists because they are attuned to the difference between what an art is supposed to look like vs what the imitator approximates. They have the fluency to spot the fake the same way you might be able to spot someone speaking your native language as a mother tongue vs out of a phrasebook. Because he is ‘fluent’ in art, people take his words on art seriously, just as one would generally take a born-and-raised German’s words seriously regarding German grammar.
Art is a form of communication, transmitting something from one mind to another using indirect means because telepathy isn’t available. AI is not trying to communicate anything.
That’s like saying photography isn’t art because a camera isn’t trying to communicate something. Like AI it’s a tool uses by people to convey that idea.
Like when I use AI generation, I have an idea or specific image in my head and I do my best to come up with a prompt that will produce what I want, or more usually, I use photoshop, so piece piece several pieces together and edit it a bit so the match is more accurate. At a fundamental level, if you consciously try to clear your mind of any existing biases regarding AI, then it’s not really any different to photography or photoshop as an artform.
AI images hit the uncanny valley for artists because they are attuned to the difference between what an art is supposed to look like vs what the imitator approximates.
That is a somewhat valid point, but there are AI models for specific tasks, say generating human faces, that co trolled experiments have found that people can’t distinguish between the AI content and the real thing. There is also plenty of traditional art that hits the uncanny valley or simply doesn’t look right, but that doesn’t make it any less art, does it?
Because he is ‘fluent’ in art, people take his words on art seriously, just as one would generally take a born-and-raised German’s words seriously regarding German grammar.
Good analogy, but there’s still a barrier between the type of art miyazaki is fluent in and AI art. Like imagine a British person saying your English is wrong because you’re using American English or AAVE. Would you take them as an expert because and denounce those variations because they are not British English? Or would you consider their ignorance of the other side limiting to their expertise?
And also, I feel I should add, Miyazaki is famously not a fan of digital art. Should we take him as an expert on art and view digital art as less than traditional art? Or should we just roll our eyes at the stubborn old man stuck in his ways?
…when I use AI generation, I have an idea or specific image in my head and I do my best to come up with a prompt that will produce what I want, or more usually, I use photoshop…
Therein lies the difference. You have an intended target and use tools to create it. The artistry is in the skill and effort put into communicating your internal concept. To my knowledge, people generally aren’t saying AI is useless in a creative process, just that typing in a few words and hitting ‘generate’ until you get something cool, or just running a filter over an image to make it look like a drawing, isn’t artistry.
…there are AI models for specific tasks, say generating human faces, that co trolled experiments have found that people can’t distinguish between the AI content and the real thing.
I failed to communicate my idea clearly enough. I’m not talking about the artefacts that sometimes make images look weird. I’m talking about the deep brain sense that one can develop that can tell the difference between someone acting vs emoting, singing vs lip synching, etc. An ingenuous performance has a different character to it that can be said to fall into the uncanny valley.
There is also plenty of traditional art that hits the uncanny valley or simply doesn’t look right, but that doesn’t make it any less art, does it?
That depends. If hitting the valley is intentional and done using skill, that’s just normal art. If it has intent but not skill, it’s incomplete art. It’s failing to communicate as intended, much like I failed with words above. It’s part of becoming good at something to screw it up, though, so it’s to be expected sometimes. If it has skill but no intent, that’s craftsmanship rather than artistry. Craftsmanship is great but has a subtle difference in how it is experienced.
there’s still a barrier between the type of art miyazaki is fluent in and AI art.
That’s not so good as an analogy. AI imagery isn’t art by itself. Even in your example of your own work, it’s materials, at best. Saying AI image generation is artistry is like saying hiring someone else to paint a picture makes you an artist. Even ‘prompt engineering’ at its finest makes one an artist as much as project management makes one a programmer. So, the general argument comes from the pretense rather than the tool. Bringing your sentence closer to the mark would be something like ‘There is a barrier between art, which Miyazaki is experienced in, and this particular type of tool one can use.’ It’s an apples to oranges comparison, like comparing the field of astronomy to a camera.
Should we take him as an expert on art and view digital art as less than traditional art? Or should we just roll our eyes at the stubborn old man stuck in his ways?
That’s an obvious false binary. People are perfectly capable of being right about one thing and wrong about another. You give his words weight because of his expertise. That doesn’t mean you have to take them as gospel, but ignoring all of an expert’s opinions because you dislike some of them, or some implications of them, is a terrible idea as well.
Miyazaki, the shit take machine deadbeat dad who’s kinda known for being overall somewhat of a cunt? That miyazaki? His opinions don’t matter to me personally.
I expect to be burnt at the stake for this but SMH you people are falling over yourselves over someone just because he made good anime.
He wasn’t a deadbeat dad. He was a workaholic and distance father, but he provided for his kids.
He was a workaholic and expected the same level of commitment from his employees, not more. He frequently reanimated whole scenes while his eyes would allow it. Difficult to work with? Sure. Cunt? Nah.
His work consistently had anti-war, pro-environmental and pro-worker/socialism themes. He made something more then “good anime”.
I’m wondering what shit takes you think he has or why they should outweigh his other accomplishments.
btw, Miyazaki grew up around his uncle’s plane factory. That’s why he has an appreciation of flying scenes and why he made Wind Raises, which really isn’t pro-war when you start dissecting it.
edit: He also has some of the best written female characters, each unique and sensible for the story.
Is the top right one of these AI Ghibli images, that I’ve heard of these last few weeks?
Also, why is Fallout London and Skyblivion on that picture? Bethesda are supporting mods for their games, they don’t care that someone makes new stuff. Have they ever blocked one of these mods, like Take2 or Nintendo always do?
Because Bethesda tried to make money off of modders’ work, that’s why. Bethesda is as cancerous as Nintendo, especially after acquisition when the office “hunger games” started.
It’s like charging you 45% after building a house for using their shovel…
Ok? I don’t think taking money for mods is wrong. It’s not like Bethesda did this without the modders knowledge. Free mods still existed. Nowadays people just open a Patreon to get paid for this stuff.
Nobody argued taking money for mods is wrong. The argument is Bethesda taking ~50% of someone else’s mod pay is borderline worthy of racketeering charges.
It’s not like Bethesda did this without the modders knowledge. Free mods still existed.
So the choice was getting nothing and getting shafted by Toddy, most people chose to get nothing and you think that was OK, and not at all a sign of disgusting behaviour, because Bethesda looked modders in the eye while they robbed them?
While I agree with you, that the money distribution was unfair, I think if you’re actually comparing this to the shit Nintendo pulls all the time, you’re insane.
Also, if you’re calling me a fanboy, because I don’t immediately blacklist a company for a (in my opinion) small issue, you have to be one as well, because otherwise you’d live off the grid in the woods.
Edit: now that the placeholder comment has been replaced I can edit too.
While I agree with you, that the money distribution was unfair, I think if you’re actually comparing this to the shit Nintendo pulls all the time, you’re insane.
Bethesda, like Nintendo, has jumped the “bleed the fans dry” bandwagon, rather than make games that people love like in the days of yore. They indeed are as cancerous as Nintendo, just smaller.
Perhaps we can let Mick Gordon be the judge of that?
I can’t believe indie devs like LocalThunk or Toby Fox don’t get any money when someone buys their games. It’s really bizarre.
Or do you mean, that there are open source game platforms out there that don’t pay the devs?
If all the money should go to the devs, every game would need to be self-published, and the store would not take a cut, which isn’t realistic, if you want the store or platform to have any features.
I mean that I don’t know of an opensource game store, let alone one that allows devs to get paid. There are stores out there where devs publish their opensource games, but the stores themselves are proprietary.
I’m not sure how an opensource game store could be monetized. It would probably be donations. A part of those could go to the game store devs. Probably the closest we’ll get to something like that is the Heroic Launcher. If they added an index of opensource games and had a distribution package (I assume it would be flatpak) and some method of payment or donation link, it could be possible.
The itch.io desktop app is open souce, but afaik the website isn’t. It does actually allow devs to get paid though, through charges or encouraged donations. There are some games you can get from flathub or the standard linux package managers, but they don’t have any built in features to pay devs.
The expensive part of hosting game files, pages, and mods isn’t really any different from what flathub or similar already does. I suppose cloud saves would require extra storage space, but I’d imagine an open source game store could charge for their cloud while also allowing p2p or a selfhosted cloud, which is a similar model to what a lot of open source projects with cloud features already do. That would be a fairly sustainable monetization scheme for the store I think, especially with donations on top of that.
Devs can be paid partially through donations, although I doubt that would be nearly enough without a system like Itch.io has where it always shows a payment screen that you have to click through before you can download the game. There are a couple more models, ArmorPaint is open source but you have to pay for binaries or compile it yourself, and Aesprite is source available (restrictive license) but takes a similar model. Overall though I don’t think open source games will ever become the standard, even for indie devs, and even if open source platforms do.
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