Indeed. And even delayed fulfillment of the original promises is impressive given how vast the scope of the original pitch was. I’m just happy to have it, even if it took a couple years longer than expected to get.
Take a look at Star Citizen if you want to know the alternative, OP
Anthem in some ways is a better example because Start Citizen is never going to release, they can cruise on their promises until the company goes bankrupt. Anthem however was released in an unfinished state hardly reaching the hype it generated and then EA just cut their losses and left it like that.
You can support HG, but that doesn’t mean that others have no right to think that it is not a smart thing to do. Spare me your ad hominem tactic, please.
I’m not calling you a jerk because I’m insulting you ad hominem and think HG is good. I’m calling you a jerk because you were a jerk. And I agree with you that HG is not good.
I mean, calling me a dick is already an Ad hominem. You are a jerk because you are a jerk is just circular reasoning, so there is just nothing but insults and ad hominem. xD
Remember that at that point the game was allready 8 years old had had several large updates. Not counting few spikes from the updates first four years the game had under 2000 player/month in steam. Financially looking the pragmatic choice would have been to stop the development, but they did not.
There has been several games from big publishers that were abandoned shortly after release, even if it still was possible to fix the game. Battleborn, Anthem, Concord. And even more games that are still in theory playable, but are just full if bugs or not fun to play.
But so far i can think only three games that had bad start, but devs kept working on it and eventually managed to make fun games. No mans sky, Fallout 76 and Cyperpunk 2077
Yes, I have already said this is commendable…in the gaming industry, but not in other industries in terms of project delivery, hence the building analogy in my post.
Why would you force other industry term on the gaming industry? Thats just silly. It like saying apple is a bad fruit because it makes for a lousy boat.
Gaming is pretty unique platform in a way where the product is measured by unquantifiable metric called fun, but you want to compare it in standards of other products.
In the end they kept working on a bad product where others would have stopped and ended making it good.
Ain’t that the absurdity? It is a silly analogy, and they are asymmetrical; if the same action applies, would it have a different reaction in the other place? Would Hello Games have the reputation as they have now?
“Why would you force other industry terms on the gaming industry?” Judging from the reply here…well, you tell me…
If i must abide by your original metafora i would say:
They promised grandiose skycraper and delivered shotty apartment complex and the tenant who had bought the apartments were understandably angry. Very few of the tenants stayed anyway, but by all means the building was a failure to the point it would be completelly understandable to have the whole building just bulldozed.
But where most companies would just disbanded and or disapeared with the money, they kept working on the building. Added new floors, made the yard nicer, lowered the prices of the apartments and the whole time tried their best to keep the remaining few people living there happy. And after few years (decates really if you think how much faster gaming industry develops than housing) the place started to be closer what the original brochure said.
Eventually new people start to get intrested about the apartments and the people who originally bought the apartments started to move back in without paying any additional fees. And while the windows were little smaller and the shower tiling were little different than originally promised, people seem to like living there. In a way the constant repairs and the new additions to the place, make it even better to some people.
The point that makes that building special is that nine times out of ten, in these situations the tenants are left with unhabitable home or even closed down building. And even more often the tenants need to pay additional fees to acces the fixed parts of the building.
Is this purely genorosity from the builder? Of course not. They also have bills to pay and in the end its their livelyhood and they surely have investers waiting a return for their money. But is it monumental showing of backbone from the builder to not walk away from the project, but keep working on it. Absolutelly.
Ah, yes, I knew about the divergence of this analogy. Let me add the drama.
Yet, it’s not even following the original blueprint, where the property owner simply speculates what the next move of the builder will be. Some think this property is hot looking from the outside, some think there is a redemption arc going on, some think there are too many leaks in the wall, some thinks the water pressure and the heater are not working well enough, some think it’s just ugly from the inside, some think there is the builders is not communicating at all, some homes vanished, some moved out and gone.
I feel like i got it now. You want to add drama. You are the neighbor yelling over the fence, the one who seems to have something against the houses, even if it literaly does not effect on their life at all.
This is why i did not want to respond to your analogy from the beginning. It does not lead to anywhere as everything is makebeliview.
Facts.
The game is overwhelmingly positive status on steam. Recently almost 90% of the people are satisfied to the product.
Its player base keeps getting bigger.
The game is soon 10 years old, but it keeps getting updates.
Hello Games have been working on the game in the situation where industry standard would have been to stop.
Now you understand the reality, sometimes you just have to get the words out somehow. XD
And that’s ok, sneer all you want, i dont expect a change to anything, this is an extremely unpopular opinion: I still think the redemption arc is bullshit, HG has achieved the minimum professionally, and now HG being crowned as the beacon of the industry is a kneejerk reaction to the action of the industry: expensive DLC, abandoning games, scam early access…
While ignoring the true indies/open source games that work for nothing but pure passion.
The sneering was only half intentional. And personaly i quite enjoy discussing things like this.
But i still strongly disagree with your view. Hello Games was small studio at the start, but they havent been ringing the indie bell for their game and in my opinion they havent stolen the limelight from indie devs. Games like Terraria and Stardew valley are still celebrated games and people are praising those games and the work devs have being doing with the updates.
Following your logic one could argue, that companies behind those games are not anywhere near the small indie teams people imagine them. And we should be angry for them too, because they take the spotlight from games like Dwarf Fortress and Project Zomboid, that have been passion projects for years before those earlier two even were concepts.
The main thing that makes No Man Sky different is that those succesfull indie games were good from the beginning, while NMS was horrible and borderline unsalvageable game, but the devs kept working on it and making it slowly better. A effort most companies wont do.
So in my opinion people should be happy and support Hello Games, because that shows to the other companies, that even if the first release of the game is bad, it is possible (and profitable) to keep making the game better.
Of course, if we lived in perfect world we could consider what HG is doing a bare minimum, but we live in a world where what they do is exceptional.
Also i strongly disagree about they doing minimun professionally. They have kept the now almost ten years old game playable, added vr, new console supports. If you want to see what minimal is take a look of Assasins Creed Unitys state in 2025.
Oh no, Hello Games didn’t steal any limelight from anyone, they have been keeping their head down. That’s on the fanbase, the myth and the hype by inflating their achievements. I can respect the perseverance without mythologising it. Hello Games did right by continuing to improve their game — but that doesn’t erase how the industry and fan culture turn necessary professionalism into legend, nor should they turn a blind eye to the state of the game. Secondly, one strike and you’re out is a bad approach. Who on earth is going to fix the mess?
But this is why we diverge – we should support them if LNF is a good game, all roads lead to Rome, I don’t think they need another redemption arc from us, right? :)
It is a simple remedy; do right by where they failed, namely, launching LNF without shenanigans, and let the work speak for itself; that’s the real redemption.
A redemption arc implies fucking up in the first place and working to rectify the previous mistakes.
They lied and the game was missing a lot of features at launch, but now all those features (and more) are in the game, which is still being updated for free a decade later.
I don’t like the game, and I wish the devs acted differently so that a redemption arc wasn’t needed in the first place, but it is what it is. The devs worked their asses off, the game is now playable and feature complete and is still being updated, and from the looks of it Hello Games have learned from their mistakes and are not promising the moon for their next game.
I mean, if the game is actually good with its common space tropes as their marketing materials, instead of having the need to be culturally reframed into a “chill sandbox”. 10 years of disjointed game mechanics and bugs still implies bad game design.
Instead of completely changing the game into something else, they opted to add features that complement the original gameplay loop, and lots of people love what the game has to offer.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking NMS, and as I said, I don’t like it either, but I wouldn’t say that the game doesn’t fit the promises made just because you don’t like it. From what I remember, they promised a sandbox game with a big universe and tons of planets to explore along with your friends. NMS currently has that, plus base building, ship customization, and more. All these systems are subservient to the main gameplay loop of going to planet -> gathering resources -> building more stuff, but it’s like that for every sandbox game. I don’t like Minecraft and Factorio either, but like, it’s my opinion. NMS never promised a 10 hrs story driven experience and cinematic cutscenes.
Doesn’t fit the promise made was not the argument; shoddily made, then being reframed into something else was the argument, nor was I expecting a “cinematic experience”. And no, I like Minecraft, MC is crystal clear about what it is trying to be: a building game first with an open world and survival element.
I cannot say the same with NMS and its space tropes and exploration loop.
Your argument is that the game doesn’t fit its “space tropes”, but somehow that’s not you having different expectations than what it was actually promised and delivered?
I expect functional dogfights, not simulator like flight model, but something arcady in a space game with functional AI. How is that an unrealistic expectation?
Let’s not even talk about a simulated universe of faction battles, which Sean even mentioned as being in the game.
There are also different factions in the game that the player can interact with and gain/lose reputation. According to the wiki, entertaining relationships with the in-game factions net the following benefits:
Availability of certain blueprints to purchase.
Faction specific dialogue options.
Possibility to start missions, which require a minimum faction standing.
High standing will grant the player aid at times when under attack by pirates.
Discounts on technology modules in Space Stations.
Maybe it’s not as in-depth as you (and I) wish it was, but it’s there already.
Don’t do that? I recently replayed the remastered versions of the old PS1 Final Fantasy games, and they have built-in cheat codes (press left and right stick to turn on God mode). I didn’t do that and played the game normally.
Thanks for proving my point.
You are strangely confrontational for some reason. But anyway, my point was that the game is, and always has been, exploration first, and everything else is complementary to the main gameplay loop. You were setting your expectations up for some sort of grand RPG dogfight game that never was, and are now telling us that it’s HG’s fault.
“Don’t do that?” I didn’t press S to win, they still circle around in an arc. And they can barely kill the player when he is not moving. Is that good dogfighting AI in a space game?
“You are strangely confrontational for some reason.” Because it is a common tactic for NMS fans to claim others have “different expectations”, which you have done twice already.
“exploration first” Precisely, Minecraft started as a building game, NMS started as an open-world sandbox, or is it an aesthetic planetarium? Does that mean expecting good dogfights is unwarranted? Would you please check their original promotional material on what they are selling?
Minecraft started as a building game, NMS started as an open-world sandbox, or is it an aesthetic planetarium? Does that mean expecting good dogfights is unwarranted?
It’s a sandbox exploration/crafting game, not a combat/flight sim game. The survival aspect in Minecraft is barebones and monsters are stupid and useless, so what? Why is Minecraft “crystal clear” about being a “building game with a survival element” but you still insist on NMS being a “space game”? What does space game even mean? Can’t two space games provide different experiences, a different focus on different mechanics, or is good dogfighting a prerequisite to all space games?
Would you please check their original promotional material on what they are selling?
I did. I could count the number of SECONDS space battles featured in their pre-release trailers on one hand. The major focus was always on exploring planets, taking in the sights and gathering resources.
Because it is a common tactic for NMS fans to claim others have “different expectations”, which you have done twice already.
I’m not a NMS fan. I think the game sucked. I hate sandboxes.
“You, however, had different expectations.” Why are you keeping hammering the flight sim angle? Did I say 6 DOF and Newtonian physics? And you wonder I got defensive? xD
“What does space game even mean? Can’t two space games provide different experiences, a different focus on different mechanics, or is good dogfighting a prerequisite to all space games?” Fair enough, then take it out; the abandoned mode should be the default. Everyone is finding combat so bad that it is obnoxious anyway, and I wouldn’t mind for it to become a fantasy planetarium like Space Engine mods. :)
“I’m not a NMS fan. I think the game sucked. I hate sandboxes.” I love them, I can do so much with them, this is not this one, though. Sandbox doesn’t mean there is an excuse for bad mechanics.
I agree, and a big part of that is that everything they’ve added over the years just feels bolted-on.
I tried to give it a shot a little while back and tried to do one of the things that was initially promised you could do, be a trader. Pretty standard space game fare. Only to find out it’s a pretty pointless and broken experience because the way you do interstellar trade in that game is by putting goods in your pockets and walking through portals that exist in every single space station. You never even get in your ship lol.
The game still just feels like a tech demonstration of a bunch of disparate systems that fail to integrate with eachother in any meaningful way. They’ve made the puddle much wider over the years but their outright refusal to make it any deeper is absolutely nuts.
To The Moon (XP) is pretty good. The Legend of the Philosopher Stone (RM2K3) is a personal fave although its incomplete and cancelled Final Fantasy Endless Nova (RM2K) is only a FF in name and is also really good.
Then there’s the ones everyone’s talked about; Ara Fell (originally), In and so on
Well that is what lot of devs do, after scamming and getting the quick money and stop working on it. But they kept working for years, still ongoing 10 years after launch. Even with the hate they got and after they got exposed.
Because, as this article that you keep linking says, they already made bank with the broken product in the first place. They could have just taken the money and closed the studio, or at least rebranding and going for the same trick again and again, as so many other actually do. They did not do that, they chose to do the opposite, which was an incredibly bold decision at the time.
You also keep linking another article showing how they made so much money recently, like in 2022, but you forget that this is now, with hindsight. In 2016 just after release, it was more dangerous for them to keep working on a game nobody trusted anymore.
And for the record, I bought NMS in 2022, and liked it okay-ish. It’s far from the best game ever, but arguing like you do that “they only added stuff they said would be in the game in the first place” is clearly fallacious.
Fair enough, I will address that. It’s a commendable act…in the game industry, but at the same time, it is the professionalism expected in another industry, which is why I brought up the building analogy in my original post.
and somehow it wins “Best Ongoing Building” every year.
Except it doesn’t. It’s been nominated for Stream’s Labour of Love award six times in the past ten years, and never won it. In fact it’s never won any Steam Awards. It won Best Ongoing at the Game Awards twice, out of a decade of being ongoing, and it won a similar award from PC Gamer once.
Because instead of the usual triple a studio promising the moon for sales then delivering a pebble and not giving a shit, it was a guy who got caught up in the hype and handled it badly, and then him and his small studio worked their asses off to make the game justify the price charged. I know it’s hard to drop the cynicism living in the modern world has instilled in us, but I genuinely think it was a collosal fuckup and not malicious, and they ACTUALLY put the time and effort in to deliver the promises they could and a fuckload more atuff that wasn’t. In a day and age of companies lying on purpose for profit and not giving a shit, it’s a breath of fresh air.
That I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but the mythology of redemption through free update is part of being a beta tester for LNF, that’s pragmatism on HG’s part shift their burden to the fans, not a colossal fuck-up as you claimed.
Pretty confident “Look Outside” is an RPG maker game. I cannot recommend it enough. It is an immaculately written game, and oozes passion and personality.
That dominoes shit makes no sense to me. I’ve tried to look up the rules multiple times online and then I go into the game and try to make a legal move and the game won’t let me.
Demons Roots is probably the best RPG Maker game I’ve played that was actually playable as an RPG. (So, not counting things like To The Moon which other people have already mentioned.)
I wasn’t a fan of most of the sexual content in Demons Roots, but taking the whole thing as basically a giant love letter to fucked up doujinshi stories – i.e. to unpolished indie writing with wild genre bending plot twists in addition to the hentai stuff – I can accept it for what it is. The game has that RPGMaker wabi-sabi; it’s not especially well-crafted software… but the combat was OK (unlike a lot of indie RPGs), the music was good – a mix of original and mostly well chosen asset packs (I still listen to some of it occasionally!), and, without getting into spoilers, it did a couple of very memorable things…
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