To most of us, this is probably just a summary of events over the past year or so. But, it’s good to know that this sort of news is reaching non-gaming channels.
I disagree with the premise. Nothing has “ruined gaming”. On the production side, it’s a booming industry increasingly making footholds in popular culture. On the consumption side, players have more choice now than they have ever had. Nobody can go load up the front page of steam or even better, the top 100 most played from last year, and tell me with a straight face that we’re worse off than in the 90s or early 2000s without making an appeal to quality that will be heavily colored by their own nostalgia.
Now, are there a lot of games with greedy decision making, loot boxes, etc? Absolutely, nobody disputes that. I personally think there is nuance even there, because I genuinely am not bothered (as a player) by some forms of loot boxes or season passes. Even if you discount every game with those options though, you still have more choice than I did as a kid.
I think this is the first time I’ve ever been called a boomer lol. All good if yall feel a different way. I just think if we have BG3, Helldivers, and Elden Ring in the span of 3 years, it’s hard to say we’re at a loss for good games.
Edit: Also, “ruined” implies a previous better state, which is what I was addressing with my reference to that time period. I figured this would be obvious, but I’m picking up now that some people are thinking I just took a chance to talk about how much harder my childhood was. Possibly just bad wording on my part.
But that’s my point, how is that “ruining gaming”? Her words in the video do not support the premise. Just don’t play those games, and you have a larger backlog than ever of games that she admits are better than they’ve ever been. The presence of bad games does not ruin the good ones. This video is just rage bait for upset gamers.
I don’t think that’s a reasonable paraphrase of my argument. I think you’re perfectly entitled to be bothered by things like loot boxes in gaming. I am more than troubled by their implementation in a lot of games aimed at children, like I imagine a lot of us are.
That is a far cry from saying “gaming is ruined”, and that’s really my entire point. One or even several things you’re bothered by existing doesn’t mean that the entire industry or state of gaming is in any way “ruined”.
I don’t think what we’re saying is at odds though. Thinking that AAA games are in a terrible place is a totally valid opinion to have. You get at my point in the tail end of your comment though. It has never been easier for AA and indie studios to make solid games, and there has been an explosion relative to the past. I do not personally think “gaming is ruined” as a whole by AAA games sucking the same way movies aren’t ruined by Marvel and food isn’t ruined by McDonalds. Good games still exist, good movies still exist, good food still exists. Dig a little past that outer layer of the latest CoD or Assassin’s Creed and there’s a plethora of amazing, unique, non-exploitative games available. To me, that’s an argument that gaming is better than it’s ever been.
Your point in there about there being less standouts is really the one that gets at what I’m saying. I do disagree though. If we look at prior eras of gaming, it was almost exclusively AAA making sales and driving the direction of the industry. Even just releasing a game on a major platform was insanely prohibitive. Now, I have a massive laundry list of totally awesome indies. Outer Wilds made me cry, Return of the Obra Dinn was a concept I have never seen before, Baldur’s Gate ruined a month of my life. What series of indie or even AAA releases was able to do a run of games like that in the 360/ps3 era? We barely had xbox arcade on consoles and steam was still in bare infancy, more associated as being an orange box launcher than as a marketplace for indies.
I just don’t agree that the majority of games are garbage or in a garbage state. There are plenty of good games coming out. I’ve listed several in this thread. Baldur’s Gate is a once in a generation game. So is Elden Ring. So is Outer Wilds. Not being exhaustive here, just some of my favorites. How many “once in a generation” games are required before we can admit that there are good options out there? The state of gaming should not be defined by its lows, but by the whole.
Hey, listen though, I’m just here to have a discussion, not trying to change your mind. There is a lot of bad going on in video games, and I don’t like it either. This is really a matter of perspective at the end of the day, so there’s no right or wrong answer here.
It’s a matter of perspective, I suppose, and I was really just naming semi-recent games that I enjoyed, so I assumed I didn’t need to be exhaustive of every “good” game that has come out to satisfy the argument. There are hundreds of McDonald’s for every French Laundry, dozens of Marvel and adaption movies for every Best Picture winner, and the same applies to games.
I genuinely insist that you focus on that pool of shitty games if you want to. I can see how concerned you and a lot of others in this thread would be, because that is only going to grow as development becomes more accessible. I’m going to focus on the high points, play the good indies in currently backed up on, and have a good time. I don’t expect that supply to dry up any time soon.
You’re confusing Outer Worlds and Outer Wilds (no big deal, I have to remind myself constantly lol). Trust me, Outer Wilds is a once in a generation game, at least for some of us.
I don’t really see how you can on one hand accuse me of using my biases and then turn around and say that three GOTY candidates are not actually all that great because you know some people who didn’t like them all that much. That feels inconsistent to me. I was also never arguing that gaming is in a great place because I like these games, but rather just because these were highly-rated (on average by both users and critics).
I have additionally addressed multiple times that I am by no means saying that there are not bad games being released or that there are not problematic patterns, especially in the AAA space. Seeing all these arguments about loot boxes and season passes when I have explicitly mentioned that digging past that layer of titles is necessary to find the good games (which I have listed non-exhaustive examples of above) is just giving me the impression that you are not truly wanting to engage with the core conceit here. You seem very passionate about this and there’s nothing wrong with that, but honestly, I’m not a huge fan of your argument style and I think I’d rather just agree to disagree on this very inconsequential topic. Feel free to respond, but I will likely not reply to your next response.
You sure do argue in good faith buddy, for sure. You can even admit when you made a common tiny mistake that I gave you every bit of grace on!
Your paragraphs are just badly-formatted run-on thoughts that don’t even accurately address my points, you completely misunderstand what I mean by “dig through”, you confront random asides instead of the central point I’m making, and you manage to show your ass harder than anyone else in this thread. Wasn’t even here to argue, just wanted to have a discussion on gaming and everyone else here managed to disagree with me politely and just discuss without being a raging asshole. All of that is why I didn’t want to continue my argument with you.
You still haven’t addressed my argument? I’ll wait for that message. To be clear, here it is: While there ARE a multitude of bad games with bad practices out there, particularly in the AAA space, there has NEVER been a more accessible period for indies and AA studios to create games. This has led to an EXPLOSION of solid games without predatory practices. All told, I believe there are MORE of these good AA/indie options than there were good AAA options in the past. I listed some of my favorite above (NON-EXHAUSTIVELY and only as EXAMPLES, not as a basis for my argument, which you ignored TIME and TIME again to set up your STRAWMAN). These games were also highly rated by the industry as a whole, which is why we’re talking about them at all. Of course, this entire discussion is SUBJECTIVE, so there will always be people who despair at the given state of any industry. I though, believe there are PLENTY of fantastic, non-predatory, non-loot-boxed, non-season-passed, highly rated games out there. The fact that there are also a large number of bad games out there too DOES NOT HURT ME if I don’t play them and I have those good options to play. FOR ME, that’s why gaming is in a good state. And to drive another point home, I’M NOT TRYING TO CHANGE YOUR MIND! Hate it if you want. I was just trying to discuss the topic, not have a big fight with a stranger on the internet.
Okay but I don’t think you can just assert that this is a binary without much more information. Would hiring more devs and a PM with the gobs of money they made cause any additional crunch? Obviously at extreme ends, it would, but I don’t think anyone is suggesting that. For what it’s worth, I like Valheim too, but they absolutely did not end up maintaining the huge amount of hype they had. That may have been intentional, but it cost them.
Oh for sure, I don’t disagree. If this is what they want, power to them! I’m also a developer, so I completely understand it. As a consumer though, I am not obligated to like their game more for it, and Valheim looks to me like a lot of potential I would have otherwise consumed left nonexistent and money/hours I would have spent on their game not happening. That’s all I’m saying. It’s totally fine if they read that and say “that’s okay!”.
No notes. It's perfect. (lemmy.world) angielski
How Greed Ruined Gaming (www.youtube.com) angielski
To most of us, this is probably just a summary of events over the past year or so. But, it’s good to know that this sort of news is reaching non-gaming channels.
Valheim: Ashlands Gameplay Trailer (www.youtube.com) angielski
I can’t believe the devs are still alive
FOUNDRY Announcement trailer (youtu.be) angielski
Yay, it’s not dead!