Why Unity's New Install Fees Are Spurring Massive Backlash Among Game Developers - IGN angielski

geosoco, rok temu

This article has some new quotes and details. I know we have the other thread going, but this would get buried over there.

banana_meccanica, rok temu

They must have lost their minds. Bankrupt or even pay Unity back for a successful game you made and finished months ago? I hope they get legal action.

KoboldCoterie, rok temu

Seriously. If they were changing the terms going forward, that’d at least be defensible, but trying to make it apply to everything that’s ever been made is just nonsensical.

Fubarberry, rok temu

Even then it would be pretty bad for a lot of devs. If you’ve been developing a game in unity for years, you can’t just easily change engines just because they’ve changed the rules of using their engine.

KoboldCoterie, rok temu

I agree with you; they’d have to give plenty of notice that the changes were coming and maybe even offer exemptions for developers who can show they were working on something significantly before the announcement… I don’t think there’s any way they could reasonably do it that would avoid all backlash, but this just seems like the absolute worst way to handle it.

4am, rok temu

So they owe devs on all previous installs? Like back payment? Or just going forward if you’ve ever used Unity?

KoboldCoterie, rok temu (edited rok temu)

Any future installs starting on January 1. It does, however, mean that many developers will be more or less forced to pull their games off of storefronts, if it actually goes through. It also means that if you bought a Unity game in the past, you’re costing the developer money every time you install it (again, if this actually goes through - I can’t imagine they won’t backpedal.)

The real issue with this isn’t the policy itself, which I would bet money won’t actually be enacted, but the fact that Unity (thinks they) can just unilaterally and retroactively change their policies. If this actually held up in court, which I think is a tenuous possibility at best (but I am not a lawyer so take that with a grain of salt), it sets an awful, awful precedent.

NotMyOldRedditName, rok temu

If they can change the terms of games already released and ask for a % per install, what’s stopping them from just asking for 100% and saying suck it bitches.

KingThrillgore, rok temu

The aftermath from its main audience, mobile devs, is going to be biblical.

Enkers, rok temu

Riccitiello also came under fire in 2022 for referring to developers who don’t focus on microtransactions as the “biggest f*cking idiots” before apologizing.

Classic CEO brainrot. There’s more to life than just maximizing profit.

otter, rok temu

Maybe this will be the kick in the rear that gets people to drop them enmasse. I’d definitely explore the other options for any new projects I was starting.

Even if they drop this fee, is it really worth the headache in the future when they try something again?

doctorcrimson, rok temu

No, Unity has always been an inferior engine to others such as Unreal Engine, Lumberyard, Blender, etc. In fact, the Unreal Engine 3 UDK became free well over a decade ago, and it’s basically Unity if Unity weren’t the scummy corporate vampires they’ve always been.

quams69, rok temu

Let’s not pretend Epic aren’t also scummy corporate vampires

dylanTheDeveloper, rok temu

I’m sorry but Blender game engine was pretty cumbersome to use. It was officially dropped awhile ago and last I heard it was picked up by the community

LillyPip, rok temu

In a capitalist oligarchy? There’s really not.

Luci, rok temu

Just a reminder that other game engines exist. Some are even free and just as powerful, if not more.

geosoco, rok temu

Like godot!

Here's a bunch of other dev related tools link.

static09, rok temu

Also stride!

www.stride3d.net

PeleSpirit, rok temu

Stride looks great, thanks for the link.

Kata1yst, rok temu

And O3DE, formally Amazon Lumberyard / CryEngine

https://o3de.org/

wave_walnut, rok temu

I'm interested in Flax game engine.
https://flaxengine.com/

M500, rok temu

I know nothing about game dev.

Is godot really just as powerful? I’ve heard of it, but I always thought it was for 2d stuff.

dustyData, rok temu (edited rok temu)

It shines in 2D where Unity falters, yes. But it’s perfectly capable of doing 3D competently. It’s shaders and lightning pipelines that are a bit rough on the edges, but that can be overcome with time with more brainpower coming in to contribute. The scripting is also far more robust than the hodgepodge that Unity tries to pass off as C#. The great advantage is that Godot is a non-profit foundation with a transparent governance model. Not a predatory venture capitalist behemoth like Unity.

EnglishMobster, rok temu

Godot is a passable engine. It doesn't have a massive pile of money behind it, but it'll generally do most things adequately.

Honestly - and I may be biased as I'm a AAA dev who works with the engine - Unreal is really the way to go. Reasonable pricing on a powerful engine. The main issue is that it's bloated as hell and there's a learning curve... but if you're an indie, it's just as usable as Unity. Plus if you wanted to get into AAA development someday, Unreal is super popular and used everywhere.

CaptDust, rok temu (edited rok temu)

It’s been really great for 2d, 4.0 made it really good for 3d, and it’s even decent for general GUI applications, as an engine it feels ready for wider adoption to me.

I think it’s not up to Unreal quality, but for the vast majority of indie games I believe it’s enough.

LetMeEatCake, rok temu (edited rok temu)

Unity is Unreal’s biggest marketer now, it seems…

Curious if some of the many internal AAA engines out there might start to get shopped around as a new alternate to UE. Sony, Ubisoft, and Microsoft all have a few in house engines that at least on paper seem viable for branching out — the biggest obstacle would be support, I suspect. Which isn’t a trivial obstacle, to be clear.

idTech is due for a resurgence. Maybe Valve could even get a revival in usage of Source.

Paranomaly, rok temu

I’d love to see Capcom license the RE Engine with how nice and smooth all the games made on that have been

fsxylo, rok temu (edited rok temu)

This doesn’t help people who were already knee deep in a project.

I might invest in some cheap liquor instead.

4am, rok temu

May your golden parachute have secretly been stuffed with lead you greedy abusive piece of shit. Fuck these bait and switch MBAs.

Mawkey, rok temu

Join the Godot Chad's!

lalo, rok temu

They pushed this change with the always online dev kit. I believe the price change is a smoke screen for the other changes. Soon they might step back on this decision.

HidingCat, rok temu

Just read some details, it's a monthly fee too? Wouldn't that really screw over single-player games which don't do recurring revenue?

LillyPip, rok temu (edited rok temu)

Well fuck me, apparently. The Adobe and Sibelius fees already break me, and I’ve invested enough in Unity assets (not to mention the learning curve) to get a game close to preproduction, and this could drive me out.

I’m a tiny Dev just trying to break into VR, console, and mobile by myself, and am dirt poor with no support, just my knowledge and talent. I’m working on three beta projects, but this makes me scared to continue on Unity.

I’m a good designer and developer with industry experience, but my health has forced me into smaller Indy projects. I put all my eggs in Unity’s basket and now it feels like they’re ditching me just at the point I was ready for production.

God dammit. :(

Justdaveisfine, rok temu

You might wait at least a few weeks before throwing everything down - There’s been a lot of backlash, so much that Unity might walk this back or change it entirely.

moon_matter, rok temu

The problem is they keep changing the license terms every 6-12 months and the changes have always been retroactive. I think they've changed it about once every year for the last 5 years and this year they did it twice. Games often take years to make and that means you might have no idea what the terms are going to be by the time you're ready to release.

So lets say they walk this back. What about next time?

dom, rok temu

It doesn’t seem right that they can retroactively change their terms and just decide you owe them money. I’m guessing this is legal since they are doing it anyways?

moon_matter, rok temu (edited rok temu)

It's really no different than a service upping their subscription fee or a grocery store raising the price of eggs. There's no law that says the price will remain the same forever. You can of course add it to the terms of a contract, but it's at your (in this case Unity's) own discretion.

Here's their Pricing Change FAQ.

dom, rok temu

The main difference is that if you built your product on their platform, you don’t have the option to pick a different vendor for what you’ve already built like you would for subscriptions or eggs. It feels much more akin to extortion to me.

You built your product on their platform and agreed to the terms they set. Thats a level of commitment you put in. Them changing it afterwards is forcing you to agree to new terms that you wouldn’t agree to if you weren’t forced.

If the issue is using their servers, or keeping the runtime code updates, there should at least be the option of self hosting or locking into an older version.

Having said all that, I know very little about vendor contracts and don’t doubt you when you say legally its the same as any other price change. It feels different because of the lack of choice.

LillyPip, rok temu

Yes, this, too. :(

LillyPip, rok temu

Oh, I’ll keep going, for sure! (…with one eye on developments.) But now I also need to prepare contingencies if their licensing goes the way of Avid, Adobe, and most recently Reddit and the bird one.

Something major might have to change and I can’t be blindsided by it, so I have to carve out time to deal with this, anyhow.

doctorcrimson, rok temu

It’s not like nobody warned you Unity was bad, they’ve been hounding developers forever. I’ve personally been warning people to not touch unity and instead use the vastly superior Unreal Engine, ever since the UDK days. This isn’t the fall of Unity, it’s mid descent.

can, rok temu

Kick 'em while they’re down

weirdo_from_space, rok temu

For future projects you may want to consider Godot or Stride. Free and Open Source.

SkyeStarfall, rok temu

Sometimes it seems to me that almost everything that isn’t FOSS/non-profit goes down the shitter these days in the name of profit. It really does feel like the only way to avoid getting fucked over is to completely ditch commercial stuff.

Our world sure does work, eh?

FalseDiamond, rok temu

Stallman was right all along.

SkyeStarfall, rok temu

Yeah, I hope stuff like this shows people the value of FOSS

Skrinkus, rok temu

Jump ship to Musescore and Affinity while you’re at it my friend.

phoenixz, rok temu

Whoah spez, are you the CEO at Unity now as well? Impressive

Saledovil, rok temu

I’m confused. I’ve never licensed a game engine, but I figure you’d write what charges you pay into the contract, and as far as I know, you can’t just add additional charges in later without renegotiating the contract. At least, you’d have no way to enforce those. So I’m sort of at a loss how this is even supposed to work.

Mandarbmax, rok temu

The game engine is licensed as a subscription. When January 1st rolls around and the dev’s meed to renew their subscription it will have these new terms. Their options are to accept this or to never update their games again.

Saledovil, rok temu

Makes sense. I hope the unity guys come to their senses. This whole thing seems rather self-destructive on the company’s part. Unity is far from being a monopoly, with one competitor being free and open source (Godot). And pulling stunts like these, even if you walk them back later, does not engender trust.

Mandarbmax, rok temu

For sure. Proprietary software, and especially subscription licensed proprietary software, is a blight.

BubblyMango, rok temu

Oh, but already completed games that dont want to make more updates dont need to pay this fee right?

Mandarbmax, rok temu

As I understand it yes, that is correct.

weirdo_from_space, rok temu

My hope would be that this encourages open source engine usage but it’ll probably simply make Unreal Engine more popular instead.

FractalsInfinite, rok temu (edited rok temu)

To be fair, while unreal isn’t FOSS, it’s source code is at least openly viewable so devs would find it easier to make easily transferable alternatives

dylanTheDeveloper, rok temu (edited rok temu)

Also if theirs a engine bug you can crack it open and fix it yourself, handy if you’re not a AAA studio who has epic Devs on speed dial. Though I believe you do have to share any code alterations with epic if it’s hosted on a private repo

Dawn, rok temu

I can see why you would think that, but there’s alot of stuff unreal just isn’t that good at, things like 2d games are a massive struggle to work with in unreal, so it’ll gain more popularity, but mainly from devs making 3d games with a focus on high graphics

yokonzo, rok temu

Godot is a pretty good alternative for 2D games

RandomVideos, rok temu

Good thing i switched from unity to godot a while ago

jdeath, rok temu

i have a couple Unity games that are close to shipping, i think i’ll hold off on that and rewrite in Godot instead. I was already considering it since working with Godot is a thousand times more pleasant than Unity anyway.

mjctechguy, rok temu

L