I understand I didn’t make it clear in this comment and I apologize for that, elsewhere in the thread I made clear that I don’t want games like WoW/Diablo/Borderlands/Balatro to get banned, but I do think it’s important to recognize how their systems work and can impact people with addiction/gambling issues. I think we haven’t ever actually had a conversation about that aspect of these games, and I think it may be an important one to have, even if it only deeply affects a small sliver of society. Out of 9 billion people, a sliver is still often millions.
Also, and I do apologize, (especially if it was just a typo) but it is actually “wide berth” not “wide birth.” Otherwise, I agree with your point. However, I really did have friends who struggled with WoW in functionally the same way I have had other friends struggle with drugs and alcohol. They were in the minority, but they existed. I think it’s important to find ways to help those people deal with those issues without impacting the large number of people whom it does not. As I said elsewhere, I personally don’t have good ideas how to achieve that, I just know the conversation should happen. I would hope more clever and thoughtful people than I could have good ideas.
Ah yes, the ESRB, the group built to avoid actual regulation.
I mean, I get it, to an extent, the MPAA was and is absolute dogshit and filled with weird right-wing Christians who don’t like things that show women’s sexual pleasure and a lot of other weird censorial decisions.
Like how Hillary Clinton wanted to ban GTA because of the Hot Coffee mod, when the actual “Hot Coffee” minigame wasn’t available in an easily accessible way.
So, to that extent, I can understand why they built that system to avoid idiot fucking puritans taking over the ratings sytem, but I generally agree, it’s become more of a taboo thing just like the “PARENTAL WARNING EXPLICIT LYRICS” just made people want that version more. (That really worked out, huh, Tipper Gore?)
Without actual enforcement, it becomes something cool for kids to get.
I’m not the one who made the original post so I’m not asking for a solution for this.
I’m pointing out how hard it is to lay down a line in the sand and say “this one is bad and this one is good” because sadly, but very arguably, the core game mechanics are addictive themselves.
I remember the couple in China South Korea whose baby died because they were playing too much WoW.
…and because literally every mechanic in the game is random. The whole game is a skinner box. I say this as a fan of Balatro.
To quote myself from elsewhere in the thread: The blinds are random, the jokers are random, the store is random, the planets are random, the tarot cards are random, it’s all random.
That’s literally what gives Balatro an addictively replayable quality.
…but the core of Balatro is literally in its random presentation. The blinds are random, the jokers are random, the store is random, the planets are random, the tarot cards are random, it’s all random. World of Warcraft didn’t need you to pay money to get epic loot either, but I still had friends ruin their lives over chasing epic loot in WoW. I haven’t had any friends ruin their lives over Balatro yet, but I also don’t think it’s impossible for that to happen. Obviously Balatro isn’t “gambling” in the sense of taking a risk with actual real money, but otherwise it still fits the definition of a skinner box.
Because at their core, when a massive amount of the gameplay revolves around random chance, it’s very easy to get addicted to it.
Thanks for calling them out for being Skinner Boxes (also known as an Operant Conditioning Chamber). When my friends were having addiction issues with WoW 20 years ago, I called it out as being addictive because it was a glorified skinner box. Nothing has changed, it’s just become more exploitative.
For anyone unfamiliar, it’s a science experiment. There’s two rats in two boxes. One rat has a lever that, when pressed, drops food to the rat. The rat only presses the lever when it is hungry. In the other box, the rat has a lever that randomly outputs food, but never consistently. A lot of the time, it produces nothing. The rat in that box spends all day long pressing the lever. Since it has no idea when the food will come, it panics and never stops trying to get more food, unsure if it will starve if it does not.
This is Diablo/World of Warcraft and the “Epic Loot” problem. People are clicking on the games endlessly looking for that top tier loot drop. It’s the same thing, because the results are inconsistent, people get addicted to the grind of trying to find the “best” item.
Also, thanks for pointing out that it doesn’t matter what game it is it’s still not okay. It wasn’t okay when it was WoW, it’s not okay when it’s Genshin Impact.
It’s time for developers and legislators to take responsibility and start protecting the players, especially the younger ones, from these predatory practices.
They’re making fucking bank with these practices. It will have to be stopped by government regulation. Self-regulation of industries has literally never fucking worked once in history. Look at Boeing, which has had the FAA basically glad-handing it for 50 years and it’s falling apart at the seams (sometimes literally).
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
People like you describe don’t want to play the game
I think this is part of the problem I have.
Are they still pressing buttons and making input? Yes.
Thus, they’re still playing the game.
If you want to sound less judgmental, stop saying they’re not “playing” it or that “they don’t want to play it” just because they’re not “playing it the way I think is right.”
If you really think its okay, accept that when they are still pressing buttons and interacting with the game, they are still functionally playing the game. Not playing the game is watching a Let’s Play.
It’s a pointless distinction rooted in treating people who want an easy mode as “lesser” because “they don’t want to actually play the game.” Sorry, sick of hearing it worded this way.
I think easy game modes take away what a great game makes a great game.
But a lot of people are coming to gaming from traditional media where there is no interaction. A lot of those people like the narratives in games, but don’t love beating a challenge. A lot of those people are tired from long days at work and do not get joy from eking out a win. To them, it feels like a chore, and they didn’t get into this to do chores. They got into it to get away from the stress of the world.
(EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is also why Let’s Play youtubes are popular. I know a guy who doesn’t game at all but has watched full playthroughs of things like Firewatch.)
If you get enjoyment from great game mechanics, more power to you. However, that doesn’t mean those game mechanics are less impactful in story driven games where the gaming is “easier.”
My partner didn’t play games at all until those old Walking Dead games by Telltale came out. They were like a TV show, and she started playing them… because it was like “playing” one of her favorite shows at the time. I literally chose them to introduce her to gaming because it was more like a TV show than a game.
She recently finished Baldur’s Gate 3 on normal and its her favorite game now. So games with easy difficulty levels can also help people who have never gamed before be able to get into it and eventually love the more difficult challenge.
Personal opinion: This is actually excellent because we could actually use developers who have worked these jobs and thus are familiar with how they work, and then they can develop actually useful code for small businesses.
For example: restaurants often have the ability to order online, but they have zero rate limiting, so you can end up with 30 different orders made within 30 seconds of each other and all those people will expect their orders ready at the same time and in the meantime you’ve got exactly three cooks and each meal takes at least five to seven minutes to get out. Someone could design a rate limiter, no one has. Because there aren’t developers working those jobs realizing that workers are being worked to the bone because of businesses refusing to add limits to how much demand can come through their door.