The question on the FAQ is asking if it’s possible, which it is. But in his big video on this topic, he says that subscription based MMOs really don’t count (even if he’d like it to).
If you sell someone a game that relies on a server you own, and did not advertise clearly that you were selling a service, not a good (something you own), and then break that product for the customer without any possibility of them repairing their good, and you delete the code that could’ve fixed it, you’d be sorta commiting fraud.
If you abandon a product that was sold as a good, and it became inoperable due to forces unrelated to you, you’d be in the clear.
The difference between a home server and a larger business server is simply the scale of how many players it can host at once.
WoW’s server binary was reverse engineered by fans, and a large ecosystem of privately run WoW servers that players can connect to exist at this very moment.
Private servers running older vanilla versions of wow became so popular, blizzard then created their own vanilla wow server to get in on the action.
He’s showing his true colors here. either doubling down so his initial reaction doesn’t make him seem foolish, or he really has a soft spot for mega corporations due to his ties with Blizzard.
Ross wrote a response to Thor’s in the comments of this video, but it’s a bit buried. I’ll include Thor’s for context as well:
Thor:
I’m aware of the process for an initiative to be turned into legislature much farther down the road after many edits. If people want me to back it then the technical and monetary hurdles of applying the request need to be included in the conversation. As written this initiative would put a massive undue burden on developers both in AAA and Indie to the extent of killing off Live Service games. It’s entirely too vague on what the problem is and currently opens a conversation that causes more problems instead of fixing the one it wants to.
If we want to hit the niche and terrible business practice of incorrectly advertising live service games or always online single player only games then call that out directly. Not just “videogames” as stated in the initiative. Specifically call out the practice we want to shut down. It’s a much more correct conversation to have, defeats the actual issue, and stops all this splash damage that I can’t agree with.
Ross’s response:
@PirateSoftware I actually wasn’t planning to write to you further since you said you didn’t want to talk about it with me and I’ll still respect that if you’d like. But since you brought up what I said again I’ll at least give my side of that then leave you alone:
I’m 100% cynical, I can’t turn it off. I wasn’t trying to appeal to legislators when I said that, I doubt they’ll even watch my videos. I was trying to appeal to people who are are kind of doomer and think this is hopeless from the get-go. I wanted to lay out the landscape as I view it that this could actually work where many initiatives have failed. Did it backfire more than it inspired people? I have no idea. I’ve said before I don’t think I’m the ideal person to lead this, stuff like this is part of why I say that; I can’t just go Polyanna on people and pretend like there aren’t huge obstacles and these are normally rough odds, so that was meant as inspirational. You clearly weren’t the target audience, but you’re in complete opposition to the movement also.
I’m literally not a part of the initiative in any official capacity. I won’t be the one talking to officials in Brussels if this passes. The ECI could completely distance itself from me if that was necessary.
In my eyes, what I was doing there was the equivalent of forecasting the weather. You think it’s manipulation, but I don’t control the weather. I can choose when I fly a kite based on my forecast however.
It was also kind of half-joke on the absurdity of the system we’re in that I consider these critical factors that determine our success or not. So yes, I meant what I said, but I also acknowledge it’s kind of ludicrous that these are perhaps highly relevant factors towards getting anything done in a democracy.
Anyway, I got the impression this whole issue was kind of thrust upon you by your fans, you clearly hate the initiative, so as far as I’m concerned people should stop bothering you about it since you don’t like it.
Apparently the games that did use that technique, like idtech games and splinter cell, generally all had small environments that were within the limitations of the hardware, where as halo 2 had massive environments that stressed it too far with the lighting active.
The video details how all of Halo 2’s assets were made with stencil shadows in mind after the bungie devs saw it in Doom 3. However, the OG Xbox ended up not having the processing power to do those critical, deep shadows, so they returned to the flat lighting of the first Halo, which resulted in a much less stylized game. The video creator shows how the game was meant to be experienced by showing all of the different character models in one of the few places in the game that retained a small section of dynamic shadows, which really drives his point home of how much better it would’ve looked overall.
Patrick Breyer and Niklas Nienaß submitted questions to the European Commission on the topic of killing games (the latter in contact with Ross and two EU based lawyers).
EU won’t commit to answering whether games are goods or services.
EULA are probably unfair due to imbalance of rights and obligations between the parties.
Such terminations should be analyzed on a case-by-case basis (preferably by countries rather than EU).
Existing laws don’t seem to cover this issue.
Campaign in France seems to be gaining some traction. Case went to “the highest level where most commercial disputes submitted to DGCCRF never go”.
UK petition was suppose to get a revised response after the initial one was found lacking. Due to upcoming elections all petitions were closed and it might have to be resubmitted.
Also in UK, there’s a plan to report games killed in the last few years to the Competition and Markets Authority starting in August (CMA will get some additional power by then apparently).
No real news from Germany, Canada or Brazil.
Australian petition is over and waiting for a reply. Ross also hired a law firm to represent the issue.
This is a simplified version of simplified version.
Ah, if you paid specifically for that content (as like a DLC or something) and it has been removed, I think this initiative might help with that, because that is absolutely destroying access to something you paid for. The main game may still be online and supported, but if they kill support for the expansions you purchased, that’s effectively ‘ending’ support for the DLC/expansion, which is destroying a product you paid for.
Hmm… That’s a bit of an odd case. I’m not sure how that would fare under this proposal. I would personally be for saving that content, but if they argue the removal of that older content is part of the experience of the game, similar to how MMO’s change things with updates… I dunno, could be tricky.
Across the globe, companies can simply say you DO NOT own your games as long as they have a EULA, and it even gives them the power to destroy your ability to play a game!
Ross Scott (of Freeman’s Mind and Game Dungeon fame) has done the leg-work of researching how much power these companies have in various countries, and what he found was that, as a gamer, you effectively have the same amount of rights as a squirrel.
The only way to stop this practice would take millions of dollars to fight it legally in court, and uh… I don’t really see any millionaire gamers willing to take up that cause. So, in any realistic sense, the corps have won here. There’s nothing we can realistically do, short of boycotting.
BUT, that doesn’t count for the EU, Scandinavian countries, Canada, UK, or Australia. Unlike the US, they actually have functional consumer protection laws, and ways for consumers to fight back against corporate overreach without needing to have a few million in the bank.
If you live in any of those countries, we could use your help! It would help even further if you’ve purchased and own The Crew at any point in time, but you can help even if you haven’t!
If you live anywhere else, you can STILL help by helping sign a French consumer petition, which has real weight to do something, it isn’t like one of those pointless change(dot)org ones! But to participate, you must have owned the game.
You’re on the front lines of consumer protection for gamers across the globe! Your actions (if we’re ultimately successful) would likely have ramifications even in the US and Canada!
How can you help? If you can’t watch the video, here’s the website with an FAQ on what you can do to help: StopKillingGames.com
This is likely going to be the biggest push for consumer protection for gamers there has ever been, so… Like, it’s kind’ve a big deal. Let’s make this count, guys.
Across the globe, companies can simply say you DO NOT own your games as long as they have a EULA, and it even gives them the power to destroy your ability to play a game!
Ross Scott (of Freeman’s Mind and Game Dungeon fame) has done the leg-work of researching how much power these companies have in various countries, and what he found was that, as a gamer, you effectively have the same amount of rights as a squirrel.
The only way to stop this practice would take millions of dollars to fight it legally in court, and uh… I don’t really see any millionaire gamers willing to take up that cause. So, in any realistic sense, the corps have won here. There’s nothing we can realistically do, short of boycotting.
BUT, that doesn’t count for the EU, Scandinavian countries, Canada, UK, or Australia. Unlike the US, they actually have functional consumer protection laws, and ways for consumers to fight back against corporate overreach without needing to have a few million in the bank.
If you live in any of those countries, we could use your help! It would help even further if you’ve purchased and own The Crew at any point in time, but you can help even if you haven’t!
If you live anywhere else, you can STILL help by helping sign a French consumer petition, which has real weight to do something, it isn’t like one of those pointless change(dot)org ones! But to participate, you must have owned the game.
You’re on the front lines of consumer protection for gamers across the globe! Your actions (if we’re ultimately successful) would likely have ramifications even in the US and Canada!
How can you help? If you can’t watch the video, here’s the website with a step-by-step guide on what you can do to help: StopKillingGames.com
This is likely going to be the biggest push for consumer protection for gamers there has ever been, so… Like, it’s kind’ve a big deal. Let’s make this count, guys.